Cat A-Diesel MPV: Touran vs 5008 vs Scenic vs Grand Picasso

[Furrynadz]

Did u join the Citroen SG FB group?

 

The C4GP triggered my itchiness in wanting a 7seater as well.

 

I think usual complains are the jerky manual like gearbox but i read in FB that both diesel and petrol are using EAT6 already so it's smooth.

 

Other than that..i think u should consider about aftersales instead.

 

Read that C&C Citroen servicing quite cui..

 

 

the "good batch" when they first took over in end 2006 till around 2010 was good

but thats the way it is with all businesses, good impressions at the start but over time "wear and tear" and manpower attrition service standards will drop

 

non withstanding, C&C is a big group and though the apple might not be that fresh or fall from the tree it still wont be that untasty or fall that far , relatively there are worse stories at Peugeot AutoFrance

 

the ETA6 being a aisin box definitely is smooth

Ray,

 

Agree. GC4P is appealing.

For C&C service, I am driving a KIA now and from the few service I sent in, they are fine and I have no qualm over it.

I am not sure about citroen since parts may not be stock up as much as kia but my kia model.

EAT6 may be smoother though not as smooth as I feel it should be, i suspect ETG6 is more fuel efficient.

My wife prefer EAT6 though.

 

 

 

in actual driving conditon, the EAT6 will not differ much from ETG6

due to the fact that it is a single clutch there is a monentary loss of power vs a continuous transfer of power using torque converter lockup during gear changes on the EAT, the EAT will give a smoother pickup and less slippage and traction loss (aka donkey riding) will actually translate to better fc is u know how to drive it

 

on top of that the tc can lockup even at lower gears directly driving the shaft with no loss / slippage

 

there are many stocklists out there which carry PSA parts, especially kian hua , transhua (pay cash only), united (just avoid this piece of crap place) and to a lesser extent he xing auto and a lot of small shops

 

workshops also a plenty outside with thomas at amk being the best for the job, and antz if u want to pay more than agent price for their "expertise" "*cough* 10 yrs being service advisor at a desk* *cough*

Furry,

 

You are the french car expert from your posts.

 

I have talked to SE in citroen and peugeot that i find the coolness in 2nd row aircon isnt adequate when front vents are blowing cold air. Both said car is not running long enough.

 

With eat6, do you still recommend getting one as i like gc4p very much. Acutually, 100km for 5 years is not a lot in terms of warranty but will make do with it.

 

 

 

the 1.6T engine has gone thru some revisions and the problematic parts ironed out, just do 7500km oil changes ideally

change atf ever 30k ideally for the gearbox, not sure what C&C recommends is...

most second row aircon are either

 

single blower in front and connected to rear air vents

single blower in front and connected to rear air vents with a small fan <-- picasso/5008 falls here

dual blower with secondary rear aircon unit with it servicing second and last row <-- big mpv like galaxy/sharan/those big jap ones

 

for 5008/gp see if the middle row has the fan / temp adjustments as well, if it has means its quad zone aircon

the third row should be dummy airvent only

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Furrynadz

[Sopskysalat]

Furry,

 

Thank you. You have in depth knowledge about French car and mechanical know-how too.

I take your latest post as an endorsement or no disapproval on getting a French car.

In your opinion, which car/make you think is the one you will go for if you were to buy one and why?

 

 

 

the "good batch" when they first took over in end 2006 till around 2010 was good

but thats the way it is with all businesses, good impressions at the start but over time "wear and tear" and manpower attrition service standards will drop

 

non withstanding, C&C is a big group and though the apple might not be that fresh or fall from the tree it still wont be that untasty or fall that far , relatively there are worse stories at Peugeot AutoFrance

 

the ETA6 being a aisin box definitely is smooth

 

 

in actual driving conditon, the EAT6 will not differ much from ETG6

due to the fact that it is a single clutch there is a monentary loss of power vs a continuous transfer of power using torque converter lockup during gear changes on the EAT, the EAT will give a smoother pickup and less slippage and traction loss (aka donkey riding) will actually translate to better fc is u know how to drive it

 

on top of that the tc can lockup even at lower gears directly driving the shaft with no loss / slippage

 

there are many stocklists out there which carry PSA parts, especially kian hua , transhua (pay cash only), united (just avoid this piece of crap place) and to a lesser extent he xing auto and a lot of small shops

 

workshops also a plenty outside with thomas at amk being the best for the job, and antz if u want to pay more than agent price for their "expertise" "*cough* 10 yrs being service advisor at a desk* *cough*

 

 

the 1.6T engine has gone thru some revisions and the problematic parts ironed out, just do 7500km oil changes ideally

change atf ever 30k ideally for the gearbox, not sure what C&C recommends is...

most second row aircon are either

 

single blower in front and connected to rear air vents

single blower in front and connected to rear air vents with a small fan <-- picasso/5008 falls here

dual blower with secondary rear aircon unit with it servicing second and last row <-- big mpv like galaxy/sharan/those big jap ones

 

for 5008/gp see if the middle row has the fan / temp adjustments as well, if it has means its quad zone aircon

the third row should be dummy airvent only

 

 

[Furrynadz]

in replying to your post earlier

"I tested GC4P over the weekend and would say the new EAT6 is abit dumb as it held on to gear 3 for sometimes till i manually increase the gear."

 

dont read too much into it, there are many test driver before u, as well as sales execs who drive the car

the gearbox learning is totally K-O already

if u are the sole driver it will adapt to your driving style

 

 

as for the choice among the two

 

A) power/driveability

torque : the diesel has better fc going for it for the higher torque, but 270 vs 240 from the petrol is not a lot, and diesel has a very narrow powerband, just like taxi

hp : 165 from the petrol vs 115 or 120 from the newer bluehdi is a big deal, and is evident from the 0-100 times

for me, the petrol wins

 

B) fuel economy

no brainer, the diesel wins

 

C) driving dynamics

no brainer, the petrol wins, the 16 inch on the diesel does no justice

 

D) resale and cevs

u pay less cos of the cevs, in return u get back less when u sell

the cheaper sticker price is becos of this and not really due to the diesel being cheaper, in actual fact pure cost price diesel engines cost more, especially the blue hdi with the euro6 scr system

 

E) maintenance = biggest deciding factor 1

diesel engines do cost more to upkeep cos of the higher carbon buildup and soot, and u have to live with the taxi noise

components on the ETG gearbox like the actuators and clutch cannot be overhauled, just replaced, and the cost is not cheap

even for the old c3 sensodrive cnc is quoting 6+k for a full overhaul, thats your ballpark and up for the ETG

for the aisin EAT, no "mechatronic unit or clutch and gear actuator"..etc to overhaul, just simple fluid replacement and they last in excess of 200k if maintain well

 

in a 10 yr lifespan expect to do 2 clutch changes and change gear and clutch actuator twice for the etg, thats abt *cough* 12k

 

on top of that u can "self reset" learning and ecu by just disconnect the battery for the petrol version for 30 mins, or trick codes at the pedal

for the diesel u want to relearn clutch u have to do manual adapatation, only C&C or T&P can do it :)

 

 

F) fuel economy = biggest deciding factor 2

if u do high mileage > 30k a year, diesel does make more sense

 

some impt things abt the diesel version , for the SCR to work u need to drive 60km/h or more for a period of time for the system to burn off particulate matter, if u do heavy city driving it will kill the SCR system very fast

 

for me, i would take the petrol :)

and go monster tune play the ecu :p

 

the first batch intensive + had all the bell and whistle including 360 cam and adaptive lighting, now outside EU all de-spec already

Edited October 6, 2015 by Furrynadz

[Sopskysalat]

Hi Furry,

 

Thank you once again. I was asking you can suggest other brand/make if you were to get a car. Nevertheless, it was still a great post comparing diesel and petrol version of the GC4P.

 

There is no more 1.6e-Hdi version anymore except some leftover stock. C&C is going for the new blueHdi version.

I agree that diesel torque band is narrow and cannot compare to the flat band offers by petrol. The new THP 1.6 in fact offers 240Nm from 1400rpm - 5000rpm which is terrific.

 

Since ETG is the past unless one gets used car which sgcarmart does offers a few with intensive plus model that I am keen, I am contemplating whether to get a used one or go for the brand new euro 6 blueHdi version which may makes more sense.

 

The current BlueHDi version is really a stripped down version without HID, 3D taillight, electric tail-light..etc though not important.

 

 

in replying to your post earlier

"I tested GC4P over the weekend and would say the new EAT6 is abit dumb as it held on to gear 3 for sometimes till i manually increase the gear."

 

dont read too much into it, there are many test driver before u, as well as sales execs who drive the car

the gearbox learning is totally K-O already

if u are the sole driver it will adapt to your driving style

 

 

as for the choice among the two

 

A) power/driveability

torque : the diesel has better fc going for it for the higher torque, but 270 vs 240 from the petrol is not a lot, and diesel has a very narrow powerband, just like taxi

hp : 165 from the petrol vs 115 or 120 from the newer bluehdi is a big deal, and is evident from the 0-100 times

for me, the petrol wins

 

B) fuel economy

no brainer, the diesel wins

 

C) driving dynamics

no brainer, the petrol wins, the 16 inch on the diesel does no justice

 

D) resale and cevs

u pay less cos of the cevs, in return u get back less when u sell

the cheaper sticker price is becos of this and not really due to the diesel being cheaper, in actual fact pure cost price diesel engines cost more, especially the blue hdi with the euro6 scr system

 

E) maintenance = biggest deciding factor 1

diesel engines do cost more to upkeep cos of the higher carbon buildup and soot, and u have to live with the taxi noise

components on the ETG gearbox like the actuators and clutch cannot be overhauled, just replaced, and the cost is not cheap

even for the old c3 sensodrive cnc is quoting 6+k for a full overhaul, thats your ballpark and up for the ETG

for the aisin EAT, no "mechatronic unit or clutch and gear actuator"..etc to overhaul, just simple fluid replacement and they last in excess of 200k if maintain well

 

in a 10 yr lifespan expect to do 2 clutch changes and change gear and clutch actuator twice for the etg, thats abt *cough* 12k

 

on top of that u can "self reset" learning and ecu by just disconnect the battery for the petrol version for 30 mins, or trick codes at the pedal

for the diesel u want to relearn clutch u have to do manual adapatation, only C&C or T&P can do it :)

 

 

F) fuel economy = biggest deciding factor 2

if u do high mileage > 30k a year, diesel does make more sense

 

some impt things abt the diesel version , for the SCR to work u need to drive 60km/h or more for a period of time for the system to burn off particulate matter, if u do heavy city driving it will kill the SCR system very fast

 

for me, i would take the petrol :)

and go monster tune play the ecu :p

 

the first batch intensive + had all the bell and whistle including 360 cam and adaptive lighting, now outside EU all de-spec already

 

[Furrynadz]

Hi Furry,

 

Thank you once again. I was asking you can suggest other brand/make if you were to get a car. Nevertheless, it was still a great post comparing diesel and petrol version of the GC4P.

 

There is no more 1.6e-Hdi version anymore except some leftover stock. C&C is going for the new blueHdi version.

I agree that diesel torque band is narrow and cannot compare to the flat band offers by petrol. The new THP 1.6 in fact offers 240Nm from 1400rpm - 5000rpm which is terrific.

 

Since ETG is the past unless one gets used car which sgcarmart does offers a few with intensive plus model that I am keen, I am contemplating whether to get a used one or go for the brand new euro 6 blueHdi version which may makes more sense.

 

The current BlueHDi version is really a stripped down version without HID, 3D taillight, electric tail-light..etc though not important.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=467249&DL=1337

 

better still ghia trim

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=505120&DL=2696

 

add on

http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/search?make=9&fueltype=3&model=62&variant=2333

 

 

alternatively

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=501939&DL=1213

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=484189&DL=1463

u want all the bells and whistles and endless retrofitting possibilities

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_trans.html

 

the amt of support in all aspects of knowledge/assistance/technical in vag forum is considered the best locally

Edited October 6, 2015 by Furrynadz

[Sopskysalat]

Ford ecoboost engine is good. I was looking at S-Max 2.0T but the price is out of my budget.

Same goes for Sharan.

 

BlueHDi engine can also chip up but how reliable is all these ecu tune chip up?

Will it destroy the engine in the long run?

 

Actually, I do not need a MPV so I am also looking at the C4 or Peugeot 308SW with new puretech 129hp/230Nm engine. The latter seems capable of doing spirited drive mated to Aisin 6sp gearbox.

 

Previously, was looking at Cruze 1.4T but find the current offered model is 7yo already but the support from overseas forum is great with many information. So for C4, one of the better forum is from C4owners.org.

 

Can I ask, if peak torque occurs flat over a wide range, it means the spooling is happening over this range, thus the fuel consumption is high too?

 

How do you find forester xt?

 

 

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=467249&DL=1337

 

better still ghia trim

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=505120&DL=2696

 

add on

http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/search?make=9&fueltype=3&model=62&variant=2333

 

 

alternatively

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=501939&DL=1213

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=484189&DL=1463

u want all the bells and whistles and endless retrofitting possibilities

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_trans.html

 

the amt of support in all aspects of knowledge/assistance/technical in vag forum is considered the best locally

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Sopskysalat

[Furrynadz]

Ford ecoboost engine is good. I was looking at S-Max 2.0T but the price is out of my budget.

Same goes for Sharan.

 

BlueHDi engine can also chip up but how reliable is all these ecu tune chip up?

Will it destroy the engine in the long run?

 

Actually, I do not need a MPV so I am also looking at the C4 or Peugeot 308SW with new puretech 129hp/230Nm engine. The latter seems capable of doing spirited drive mated to Aisin 6sp gearbox.

 

Previously, was looking at Cruze 1.4T but find the current offered model is 7yo already but the support from overseas forum is great with many information. So for C4, one of the better forum is from C4owners.org.

 

Can I ask, if peak torque occurs flat over a wide range, it means the spooling is happening over this range, thus the fuel consumption is high too?

 

How do you find forester xt?

 

 

 

 

if fuel economy is your cup of tea, just avoid subaru, maintainance is a killer

cruze cheap now cos new model launch overseas

the 308sw puretech is good

just dont expect it to do much above 150km/h, no replacement for displacement

stage 1 tunes normally quite reliable and no issue with reliable tuners

compare in terms of depreciation not outright sticker price

i doubt u be content driving the same car for 10 yr, let alone 5

i would consider resale value very highly as one of the criteria, and sharan has very high resale value cos of the specs/omv/ love from amdk or soccer mum families

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Furrynadz

[Enye]

 

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=467249&DL=1337

 

better still ghia trim

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=505120&DL=2696

 

add on

http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/search?make=9&fueltype=3&model=62&variant=2333

 

 

alternatively

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=501939&DL=1213

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=484189&DL=1463

u want all the bells and whistles and endless retrofitting possibilities

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_trans.html

 

the amt of support in all aspects of knowledge/assistance/technical in vag forum is considered the best locally

 

wow sharan 1st owners easily lost 100k over 2-3 years

 

[Furrynadz]

 

wow sharan 1st owners easily lost 100k over 2-3 years

 

 

 

yeap, thats why i told him consider

2014 sticker price is 216k , for a 2-3 yr old model at 80-100k off is damn steal

a huge factor is the slide in cat B by nearly 20+k to 30k this past yr

Edited October 6, 2015 by Furrynadz

[Enye]

Furry,

 

You are the french car expert from your posts.

 

I have talked to SE in citroen and peugeot that i find the coolness in 2nd row aircon isnt adequate when front vents are blowing cold air. Both said car is not running long enough.

 

With eat6, do you still recommend getting one as i like gc4p very much. Acutually, 100km for 5 years is not a lot in terms of warranty but will make do with it.

 

 

french cars have weak aircon

 

last time i owned a renault megane, the aircon cmi.

 

takes a long long time to cool down the car when it was parked under the hot sun

 

in addition when overtaking on the NSHW, air con compressor will cut off for a while when the accelerator is floored

 

made the interior unbearably hot.

 

 

yeap, thats why i told him consider

2014 sticker price is 216k , for a 2-3 yr old model at 80-100k off is damn steal

a huge factor is the slide in cat B by nearly 20+k to 30k this past yr

 

good value...fully agreed

 

but looking at the OMV, i guess some features are missing

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Enye

[Furrynadz]

yea

french aircon compressor so small

[Sopskysalat]

Well said.

 

I rode on my friend's sharan often and it has my thumb up. My friend got it for 187k this April. The price has since dropped too to 17x last weekend. Yes, I should weigh the cost of car based on $$$/yr and the two recommended are around 16k/yr which priced out of my budget. Thanks for the recommendation though.

 

I am one of those who will really buy and ride out the 10 years. That's why I try to find something balanced between $$$ and specs/comfort. Like I told my wife, this is a tough decision as we are not rich but still can afford a car (please don't flame me), if we bought any model, it will be with us for next 10 years. Hahah...

 

Subaru maintenance is in the aspect of fuel? or Servicing/Parts...etc?

Cruze to me is the best buy in the 100k market and if one worked out the $$4/year, it can be around 9.x k/yr only. And it offers a turbo engine. We tried the Cruze wagon.

 

 

 

 

if fuel economy is your cup of tea, just avoid subaru, maintainance is a killer

cruze cheap now cos new model launch overseas

the 308sw puretech is good

just dont expect it to do much above 150km/h, no replacement for displacement

stage 1 tunes normally quite reliable and no issue with reliable tuners

compare in terms of depreciation not outright sticker price

i doubt u be content driving the same car for 10 yr, let alone 5

i would consider resale value very highly as one of the criteria, and sharan has very high resale value cos of the specs/omv/ love from amdk or soccer mum families

 

 

[Furrynadz]

Well said.

 

I rode on my friend's sharan often and it has my thumb up. My friend got it for 187k this April. The price has since dropped too to 17x last weekend. Yes, I should weigh the cost of car based on $$$/yr and the two recommended are around 16k/yr which priced out of my budget. Thanks for the recommendation though.

 

I am one of those who will really buy and ride out the 10 years. That's why I try to find something balanced between $$$ and specs/comfort. Like I told my wife, this is a tough decision as we are not rich but still can afford a car (please don't flame me), if we bought any model, it will be with us for next 10 years. Hahah...

 

Subaru maintenance is in the aspect of fuel? or Servicing/Parts...etc?

Cruze to me is the best buy in the 100k market and if one worked out the $$4/year, it can be around 9.x k/yr only. And it offers a turbo engine. We tried the Cruze wagon.

 

 

 

 

 

if u dun mind the old model with the 1.4t opel engine, its pretty ok

but...

 

anything GM family parts are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

and beside agent outside few want to touch, the more complicated parts

those that claim they are "Chevrolet expert", like a certain shop at level 2 amk autopoint, they are expert in all car brands too according to their signboard..i think even monkey also can qualify to be that expertise

 

get korea parts and pay GM parts price..a bit not worth, only 1 stocklist in veresamy road

 

subaru boxer engine nobody want to touch except those pro-sub workshops cos even things like plugs its very hard to reach cos of the flat-4 layout, and they are fuel guzzlers

 

if u want sell no resale value, only malay buy them now, keep 10 yr...maintance and insurance will kill u

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Furrynadz

[Rayoflight]

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=503791&DL=1000

 

 

This diesel version is it the high gadgets spec? seems like it has everything u mentioned

[Rayoflight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM5QAW9CBa0

 

 

Really quite nice leh

[Furrynadz]

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=503791&DL=1000

 

 

This diesel version is it the high gadgets spec? seems like it has everything u mentioned

 

 

yeap intensive + is the high spec

[Furrynadz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM5QAW9CBa0

 

 

Really quite nice leh

 

yeap...nice

wait till 3 yr up and u see the usual complaints on electronics, peeling/fading dash, lcd screens kaput (actually most already kauput within first 3 months lol) , and the usual carbon buildup issues

[Rayoflight]

 

yeap...nice

wait till 3 yr up and u see the usual complaints on electronics, peeling/fading dash, lcd screens kaput (actually most already kauput within first 3 months lol) , and the usual carbon buildup issues

 

So serious boh??? hahaha

 

Wonder how is it like changing from a BMW F30 316i.. engine capacity about the same.. I need SPACE!!