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Anyone has any lawyer to recommend to face dealer for mileage tamper? possible to take it to court under fraud?

I have just seen cases of used car dealers adjusting the mileage of the cars advertised on SGCarMart. Is this against the law? My recent ex-ride is one such case.

Do you guys find any value in using their services? On the occasions I was selling my car, I got a lot of "spam" SMS from them offering to sell on consignment for me.

Does any1 here have any good n reliable lobang on car dealers?I need to sell of my ride.Any recommendations?Thanks in advance!

My father got sweet talked into signing an agreement to sell his vehicle on the spot by a dealer located in Turf City. He is 62 years old and doesn't know how to read English. No other person was present when he signed. The person who referred the dealer is from a workshop where my father send his vehicle for repairs. And this same person kept telling my father this is the best price to sell liao. So shady imo. I checked with other dealers and not surprised to know that my father can get a better price elsewhere. I called the dealer and asked him nicely why didn't he explain to my father what he was going to sign. My father thought it was just a letter of offer but turns out it was the sales agreement. The dealer rudely replied say buy and sell car is like going to supermarket buy chicken. Very simple no need to explain. He even told me, if you all change your mind just compensate me because your father signed liao. You better do your homework before you call me. If not we go court lor. This dealer who I spoke to apparently is the boss. I know there is nothing much I can do when my father is too embarrassed to pursue this matter. No unkind comments please. Already feel damn down liao.

Hello all, Newbie here with regards to getting a secondhand car, would like to seek advice here. Generally what should you look out for when considering to buy a secondhand/COE car? Specifically, does anybody have any review/experience dealing with <Car Express Auto Trading>? Saw a car that I'm interested in but can't seem to find any reviews on them. Thanks in advance!

hi just checking if you know does second hand car dealers accept credit card for payments ?

SE across the causeway. Just for fun.. Saw this from a Msia FB car group. BMW Lexus Honda

Wow!! I just checked a few websites (honda, toyota, kia) on their models, almost none are offering manual transmission?!? I understand that most people will go for the auto, but definitely there'll be some go for manual one. I mean how difficult it is to have an option for manual? Just blardy import the car in as like an auto?? Are there more paperwork?? Mechanic dunno how to service a manual ride?? The factory no longer producing manual transmission?? It's not like they stock up manual vehicles in their showroom and not able to sell (they order then ship in usually). So why they don't even offer it anymore still buffles me. If BMW, Audi, VW, Merc were to offer manual transmission, i'm pretty sure there will be orders for them too. Anyone wanna shed some light??

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/car-dealers-set-up-own-online-portal-to-be-rolled-out-late-may?cx_testId=0&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=2#cxrecs_s SINGAPORE - In the face of competition from online portals, car dealers have banded together to set up their own marketplace. Dubbed UCars, the site is expected to be rolled out by the end of next month. It is the brainchild of 21 United Holdings, a consortium formed by 40 car dealers in Singapore who are in the midst of raising $5 million to run the site. UCars aims to offer "thousands of quality new and used car listings", in addition to exclusive deals, privileges and events for both consumers and dealers. "Our strict verification procedures mean that we will be the gold standard for having the most extensive collection of quality and reliable cars," said spokesman Leslie Hong. By the end of this year, consumers will be able to sell their cars to dealers through the UCars marketplace. The Straits Times first reported in November last year that car dealers had plans in the works to introduce their own portal to compete against sites such as sgCarMart and Carousell, which have gained ground in recent years. 21 United Holdings chairman Eddie Loo said that having their own portal will allow dealers to cut out the middleman and let them pass on the savings to customers. The members of the consortium are all industry veterans, some with several decades of experience, he noted. Mr Loo, who is also managing director of car dealer CarTimes Automobile, said the combined experience of these companies allows them to serve customers better and gives them an advantage over other online marketplaces. "We understand what consumers want," he said. ...... consumers don't want 2nd hand dealers

Resale Value? Does it really mean resale Value higher? Some AD make 70% while most make 20%-30% premium.

I am wondering, are admin fees or football fees or whatever u call it... are they still in 'fashion'? If so, then it makes buying a 2nd hand car more costly. Admin fees lar, lagi transfer fees, lagi higher loan interest etc

Feeling the heat of competition from online sites, used car traders are banding together to set up their own portal. A group of 20 traders led by Mr Eddie Loo, managing director of CarTimes Automobile, is raising $5 million with the aim of rolling out the site by early next year. "The online presence is eating into dealers' business," Mr. Loo told The Straits Times. "We need to protect our business before it's all taken away from us." He said competition has been coming fast and furious, in the form of such entities as sgCarMart, Carousell, Carros and ------. "And we find it's meaningless for us to support these online portals when they are competing with us," he added. Carousell, for instance, has muscled into the car domain, while sgCarMart has just started a car financial services arm. "Our aim is to become the largest online portal... to create a new marketplace for dealers," Mr. Loo said, adding that the yet-to-be-named site will be run by 'a professional team'. "It won't be run by dealers, so that it won't be one-sided," he added. "Every dealer will have a stake, so that their interest is protected." He said the business-to-consumer site will cater to motorists who want to buy or sell vehicles, and it could eventually allow deals to be done fully online. "It's still preliminary," he added. "The $5 million is just the first phase." Mr. Loo said the investment will go into hiring a team as well as marketing efforts. "There's a lot of marketing to be done," he noted. The used car trade is in the doldrums on account of depressed Certificate of Entitlement (COE) prices, which have rendered vehicle stocks bought with higher premiums commercially unviable. The slowdown, which started in July when COEs for cars up to 1,600cc fell to eight-year lows, has claimed at least one company. Shen Tat Enterprises has shut down after nearly 30 years in the business. ST PREMIUM article. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/used-car-dealers-to-set-up-largest-online-portal

Is it a free market or cornered market? Isn’t it good for a consumer to pay cheaper car prices? Why would it raise concerns? See news article

What's on your mind when you saw your old car on road or when you saw it on SG CAR MART used car listings? For me, first question: "Wa lao eh...how much mileage the dealer tampered?"

By Tan Weizhen - 6 hours 19 min ago SINGAPORE

read this from SHC.. take extra note when u buy cars from 2nd hand car dealers! steventcs wrote: i kana con by car dealer. drive 1mth den kana tow away by other credit company.sxxt the saler ask 2 drive 1st while he contact the owner 2 summit his docu 4 transfer.pay $2500 plus mod up for $2000 den gt nothing back.t*** huap auto4 at jalan malu malu.cheaters.advised 2 all car buyer,do not believeseller when they cant transfer the owner ship on the spot.the shockin news 2 me was my car was belong to 1 malay guy who cant pay his installment n passed it to car seller 2 sell.then the cheat buyer money n run away.in the end the other credit company tow yr car away.this is a loophole.even the police cant do anything http://www.shc-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1523310#1523310

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/manhattan-motor-in-turf-city-shuts-down-car-buyers-may-lose-tens-of-thousands-of?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&xtor=CS1-10#link_time=1512106715 Manhattan Motor in Turf City shuts down, car buyers may lose tens of thousands of dollars Manhattan Motor closed shop after leaving more than 20 buyers without cars which they have paid for. SINGAPORE - The names have changed, but the story is the same. Another motor firm has closed shop after leaving more than 20 buyers without cars which they have paid for. Manhattan Motor in Turf City, a sole proprietorship owned by used car dealer Lee Kum Kuen, had sold the cars to several buyers in the last month or so, collected the money, but did not transfer the ownership to the buyers. The finance or leasing companies which the cars are still registered with then proceeded to repossess the cars. Dentist Daniel Chan, 34, was among those affected. He bought a used Volkswagen Tiguan in November and collected the car on Nov 6. On Nov 15, he tried to renew road tax for the car, but could not. He contacted the Land Transport Authority, and was told that the vehicle had not been transferred to him. The car has since been repossessed, and Manhattan has closed shop. Asked why he did not buy from authorised agent Volkswagen Centre Singapore, which has a used car division, he said: "I didn't want to spend too much on a car. The (Manhattan) price was right. I did an internet search on the company and there were no bad reviews. "I've bought two used cars before, and never had a problem," he added. He bought the six-year-old car for $70,000 and paid $50,000 in cash. Volkswagen Centre Singapore said it does not have a similar car in stock currently, but estimated that one would cost around $50,000. Police said they have received "more than 20" reports from consumers regarding Manhattan Motor. "We are looking into the matter," a spokesman said. Auto Lease Pte Ltd, one of the companies that repossessed the cars sold by Manhattan Motor, had already towed back seven cars. "Four are still at large," said director Anthony Lim. Mr Lim said such cases have become "very common". "You don't need a licence to be a motor dealer," he said. "Buyers just have to be vigilant." The Consumers Association of Singapore (Case) said it has received 14 complaints against Manhattan Motor since January, with 11 filed in the last two weeks. Executive Director Loy York Jiun said: "The complaints were primarily about the lack of transfer of ownership of the car to the consumer's name. "Some consumers feedback that despite having made full payment to the car dealer, their cars were repossessed as payment was not made to finance company. "Case is of the view that collection of payment by the dealer with no intention to fulfil their obligations under the contract is highly unethical and it is an unfair practice under the Consumer Protection (Fair Trading) Act. Consumers can seek recourse under the Act." But Case noted that “options are more limited in the event where a business ceases operations”. Manhattan Motor has not been contactable. Happening more and more often these days. Im sure its hurting all the other Parallel Importers as people lose faith in smaller dealers. what do you think can be done to stop this?

https://www.onemotoring.com.sg/content/onemotoring/en/lta_information_guidelines/buy_a_new_vehicle/car_cost/_jcr_content/main_par/download/file.res/Car_Cost_Update.pdf Just thought I did share. The table is pretty much self-explanatory. It shows the amount of profits every authorized dealer make for each car they sell. Highly subjective but it's a good interesting gauge.

SINGAPORE: As of Monday afternoon, Singapore's Land Transport Authority (LTA) has received some 960 applications to get cash rebates from their Certificates of Entitlement (COE) and the Preferential Additional Registration Fee (PARF). But car dealers have said that they are not expecting a rush of owners to give up their cars for cash. Jackson Lee, managing director of Jia Leong Trading, said: "Some of them might give up because of petrol... inflation... some of them want to be more economical (and) give up the car, but I think (the number is small)." "For the first kind of people, whose vehicle is fully paid (up), this would serve as an advantage to them because they can exchange their PARF paper for full cash with LTA," said Jerry Ong, Manager of Auto Inn. "But for people with outstanding loans, it won't make much of a difference because dealers like us, we've got to come up with the money to fully settle their cars for them." In Singapore, a car's PARF value is the amount credited to motorists who scrap their cars before its 10th year. A COE is the pre-requisite before anyone can buy a car, awarded through a bidding system. As of Monday, car owners have the option to exchange their COE and PARF rebates for cash. The move, announced in March, is aimed at reducing the car population and have Singaporeans turn to public transport. Dealers have said it is still too early to say what car owners will do, as opinions differ among individuals. Phoebe Lim, a car owner, said: "I feel very handicapped without a car, (therefore) whether with or without the rebate, I will still drive. Since I got my licence five years back I've never taken public transport, so no (I wouldn't exchange my car for cash)." "If the public transport is good enough, yes I think I would," said another car owner, Andrew Ong. "I balance the two together, I value the cash rebate, I can have a saving, I can have money in my pocket, so why not?" But whether more people will give up their cars for cash in the days ahead remains to be seen. - CNA/yb

The glut in used cars is over and a shortage looms. Second-hand car dealers have managed to sell most of the cars in their inventory after a two-month reprieve from the authorities. At the same time, they are not buying used cars as drivers hold on to their wheels in the wake of drastic loan curbs. A Land Transport Authority spokesman said about 4,600 of the 7,000 used cars that dealers had acquired before the car loan restrictions kicked in had been sold as of Monday. Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/...y-expected-2013

We can continue the debate here. Maybe it will help bridge the understanding between dealers and consumers. Please keep the discussion civilized and mature. Danke.

Anyone has experience with this - I am getting a new phone and am thinking of selling my current phone. If I sell my current iphone to a second hand phone dealer, can they transfer the data in my phone for me to my new phone?

In singapore as you all know it, to buy a used car, we all need to fork out more cash due to MAS new car loan rules, whereby we are only allow to loan 50% or 60% of the used car price. So if you think you are protected against those unethical, dishonest dealers? Think again. Once you pay a big down payment to the dealer to buy a used car for example, if the dealer decides to play you out, you are doomed. There is no clear cut rule or law that you are able to get back your down payment if the dealer fails to deliver the car to you. Tricks dealer play: 1)they can drag and drag.. saying your loan application still in process.(or with other 101 excuses) Therefore you cant get your car. (they can take 1 or 2 mths, and have time to play with your hard earned down payment) 2) Should you decide that enough is enough of waiting, you want to cancel the deal, you need to go through a hard time getting back. Or can you really get back? 3) Signing on black and white will not 100% protect you. After all, if the dealer decides to play dirty with you and not return your down payment.. you can go police or what but end up.. you may need to spend more legal $ to get back your money. 4) Those dealer can argue to the police they used your down payment for other business process, therefore cannot return your down payment straight away as your like if you want to cancel the deal. It is like you are giving the dealer a installment free loan, especially if you give them a big down payment for the car. Why cant we be protected against such dealer? Surely there must be some kind of laws or acts to be implemented especially with the new MAS car loan ruling. Myself sadly encounter with such dirty dealer .. I have decided to share in depth details on what actually happened.. make sure fellow forumers dont fall for the same trick. Dealer: Andy Koh from Mirage Motor Pte Ltd Empty shell company or real ? I leave this job for the police. I am actually buying a car from direct seller and Im getting Andy for his (middleman)services for loan application ,settlement and transfer of car. 25/4 Met Andy Koh at IMM whereby i gave him relevant documents for the loan. approval. Also signed loan documents(he requested me to leave out the dates) and sale proposal form. I also passed him 14k for the down payment. Note: he did not passed me the sale proposal form which states the 14k down payment i gave him but i took a pic of it. 26/4 I was told by Andy Koh my loan is approved by T****o Lea***g. He also mentioned that the processing will not be that fast as the appointed bank is processing many of his other client's application concurrently. It is norm to take weeks he said. I called him everyday to ask for an update, but the replies i get is mostly: - bro, where got so fast? relax.. let them do. -you are not the only one waiting.. they still got do many of my client's application. - I also cant do anything, i already rush them everyday. -Ok will ask them again today and let u know. (usually nothing) When i asked him.. can i contact them directly, he said cannot. If i contact them directly he will be screwed by them. 2 weeks past 14/5 Andy Koh said he needed my advance first month installment for the loan of $677, a processing fee(comms) of $300 and transfer fee of $11. I passed to him. I found out from car seller and my friends that processing of loan settlement usually takes maximum of 2 weeks. I grew suspicious and called T****o Lea***g directly. That's when I found out that Andy go through an agent, which is in this case *L CR***T . A company that is authorized to deal with banks and helps to do settlements and loan approval. I called this company and found out that Andy DID NOT submit any loan documents that i signed on 25/4 nor the money i gave him. I called Andy and confront him and thats when he began to ignore my calls or acts busy... saying he is meeting customers..call me back.. and usually he did not. 21/5 I finally give him a ultimatum saying if he dont ans my call, i will report him. That's when he sent me a sms saying he is on the way down *L CR***T to submit everything. I believe him as i called *L CR***T to verify if Andy Koh has indeed reach their office. Thinking he had given everything to *L CR***T including my 14k , advance installment and transfer fee.. I called him to ask back my $300 as he did not fulfill his part as a middleman.. that's when he said there is actually a $120 finance fee(which i never once heard from him before!) which he had actually include in the $300 processing fee. He refused to return me and stop replying my sms. 22/5 I went down *L CR***T with the owner as there is some documents which i signed wrongly. (*L CR***T called me down) . To our disgust, Andy Koh did not passed *L CR***T any money... he only gave them the applications. *L CR***T called Andy asking him to give them the outstanding to do the settlement. He said okay and will drop down and give them by the end of the day. I also called Andy and he said he will try his best to reach ASAP. However after that, he went MIA. I bombard his phone but he either never answer or say he is busy, and end my call. I even threathen that i will call police if he never return call. around evening, Andy Koh finally returned my call and confessed he did not have my $14,688 and mentioned he had used my money for his own business purposes. He also said he only have $7500 with him and he will pass to *L CR***T later today. He will also pass the balance next wed. I said NO and want him to pass the 7500 to me personally and i also want him to sign black and white with me. He said he will meet me around 10pm , ask me to wait for his call. As usual, he went MIA and didnt keep his promise. 23/5 I went to Andy Koh's house to find him (i happen to have his address) but he wasnt home. I then called the police. I went to his void deck hoping to find him and luckily saw him! He was about to drive away and i manage to stop him. He then say... oh..i am about to call you.. see..i got the documents (black and white) ready for you to sign. I made him sign the black and white(to safeguard myself) and by then, the police came. The worse thing is..even though he didnt deny he got my $14688, and also confess to the police that he used my money for his own business use... the police didnt bring him back. Both of us took statement and thats it! the police also mentioned this is a breach of agreement and is best solved between the both of us. I ask him how he wants to return my money and he just said "no, you call police already mah...i not going to return you and i will speak to my lawyer first" in a cocky tone. in the presence of the police officers. On that very day.. the Investigation officer didnt call me . Rather i must call him to ask him what is the status. He only says he will conduct some investigation before anything. 24/5 Vesak day I tried calling IO many times, only managed to get hold of him..and he told me he is off today. 25/5 Finally IO took initiative to call me and said he had called Andy Koh. Andy koh told him he will complete my settlement. I said No..i do not want his service anymore and all i want is my 14k back. and shoot that IO back to see if andy even have 14k ? IO then return call. Andy told him.."yes i have.. but if he wants his 14k back, he will need to get it back through legal means". Andy Koh is obviously playing dirty here and yet he can be so cocky. Why aint we car buyer being protected?? 29/5 latest update. Andy called me yesterday. He says he have my 14k now and going to show to police to prove he have it. However, he refused to return my money and wants me to deal with him using my $14k to buy a car from him(meaning he wants to earn more). He also said he can forfeit my money and the most ridiculous part is he says he has the rights to earn money from me because of this thread i started and caused him to lose credibility. He said some of his customers called him to ask what happen etc. what RIGHTS he have to forfeit my money?? I demanded my $14688 nett in cash back.. no question ask.. and im definitely to seek a lawyer to claim back my rightful money and all time/opportunities loss and my sleepless nights.. if he refused to return.