Installers

[Mondeo]

My Sony HU was frm there, their price are standard with no discount, last time was quite good, but not now and they do not got much products offer, most likely old stocks. ICE jobs is So-So only.

Conclusion: go to other ICE shops.

Edited April 15, 2002 by Mondeo

[Guyver]

I've clocked my trip before also..... that time i left at 1am reach malacca gf's place 3am sharp door to door, it took me about 20mins to reach woodland chkpt...... cleared causeway in about 5 to 10mins.... then all the way up.... non stop.... all the way 160km/h.

 

Yah, it's really a nice place to relax..... my typical normal one would be about 2hrs 30mins to 3hrs. I think u stop over a few times for pee breaks and stuffs right? So considering that add 30mins..... and u driving at 120 to 130km/h that's about 25% slower than me .... so multiply by my normal timing.... it's about your timing liao....

 

4 hours door to door is really too long for us S'porean since our daily journey barely cross 1hr..... perhaps if u really want.... try to go abit faster... but travel later like me..... and try to reduce the no of stop... or if can.... don't stop at all..... u should be able to hit about 3hours door to door @ 140km/h (with no jam at causeway).

 

Just my suggestion....

[Seven11]

Tks.. nah, I do not touch the 160km/h mark at all.

Yes, I do take a break in between - short one just for peeing etc. But if I travel at night like 10pm to midnight, I think I'd rather not ake any break man, just in case got night robbers.

 

Yeah, 3 hours door to door at 140km/h w/o breaks in between sounds more possible. Will try the next time.

[AutoS]

To All,

 

I know this thread like die already for a month or so already. However I just come here and as an installer I will add some comments, better late than never.

 

B4 anyone want to blast me 4 my comments allow me to cover backside first by saying, my comments are for anybody to agree, disagree or judge and even flame and that's OK cuz everyone entitled to their own opinion. What's more if someone has better opinion W/ logical reasoning, I am flexi enuff to change opinions too.

 

OK abt the Trophy biz, I would like to confirm and elaborate on Ghostie's comments. Seeing and auditioning installs from many of these trophy displaying shops, I will say unequivacably that these trophies don't mean a thing. I am not saying that all trophy displaying shops are lousy, but 4 sure the trophies have or don't have don't mean squat.

 

For a start there hasn't been any open competition in Singapore for perhaps 7-8yrs or so. 'real car audio' which means audio sound quality reminescent of home audio, attaining natural sound reproduction in cars is a fairly new phenomena. So in those good old days the standards most likely way below what is expected as good these days.

 

Also the competitions were run by SASCA which is an affilliation to IASCA in the USA. Does not mean that the standard the same. Cuz all need to do is to contact IASCA in USA and they will send some forms which need to be filled out and sent back and they will sanction Ur country's organisation and send some guidelines. SASCA is made up of a few of these old timer car audio biz pple, and most of these are the trophy holders.

 

In ICE forum sometime back, one customer was cussing at one particular established name installer for overcharging, under delivering and bo-chap when come to rectify problem. Someone pointed out that this installer got heaps of trophies on display that they won B4. The pissed forumer stated that maybe last time they kilat now biz good so don't give a damn.

 

Remember thinking to myself at the time, not likely that last time very kilat now becum so lousy. My thinking the standard the same all along never improve W/ the times. After all which installer won't give his workers proper instruction to achieve better SQ if he knows his stuff. Every boss knows that his biz depends to an extent on good rep. Me thinks the bosses, supervisor etc besides sambong this and that together got sound, not really adept at the fine art of car audio.

 

This brings me to the post here where one Bro in here suggested that he don't feel comfortable at Dynasty cuz the Boss do the sales and leave the hands on install to the Malaysian workers and if the Boss don't know enuff to hands on cannot trust Malaysian workers.

 

Malaysian workers, the experienced ones are the best when it comes to hands on. That's why they are hired, everyday wiring in and out, strip car panels up and down they know the ins and outs of wiring and car interior like the back of their hand.

.....BUT

a good shop must have a Master. Whether hands on or not, not important. Important is he must know the best equipment to recommend to mix and match which can really perform, so yes he should do the sales. This within budget, so that $$ allocation the most worth while. Also he must know his trade to instruct his workers as to exactly how the install should be done and keep tabs on their work. Workers got to know the boss knows his ICE much better than them so cannot phiak ard.

 

Basic qualifictions to fullfill Master's role are first and foremost a good appreciation of music and what real music reproduction should be like. Can't possibly be in-charge of setting up good systems when don't even know what good system performance is. Also must have an educated mind able to absorb the finer points of the science of sound and electronic specifications as they pertain to car audio install. And last but not least must have sufficient practical experience to have a good working knowledge or assesment capability and quirks of most of the products available in the market.

 

Want to assess an installer, I would suggest not by trophies but auditioning the installer's work. More cars the better. And for pple not yet familiar, I would suggest getting a crash course in what 'real car audio' should sound like B4 condemming any installer or praising another to the heavens. Cool, if U are indeed a home audiophile buff U should know what I mean.

 

BTW this expertise makes a diff all the way from simple upgrade and not just the complex ones.

 

Some discusion here on Jimmy Mobile. Jimmy is one of those very, very few will qualify as a Master based on my definition above. Sam at Swift motion is another. Think U all are doing Jimmy a disfavour by saying oh yeah he's a nice, smooth guy, good salesman etc. Cuz unlike 99.99% out there he and brother Jacky actually know their car audio. These are my peers and my competition and whilst I repect them I have my own ICE ways.

 

Another Bro also mentioned that he only feels comfortable at those shops that look so busy and got to pai tui. Pai Tui shops usually so busy cuz they ard for long time, got good location and often becuz do more fast jobs such as HU and spkr installs, alarm and reverse sensor. Making good cash flow like this, hardly have incentive to get to improve expertise. And being so busy-busy U really think personalised service going to be better? Car Audio specialized install will take longer, usually longer than a day so not so likely to see pai tui fast in fast out kinda crowd. BTW that shop mentioned above abt customer cussing also one of these very pop pai-tui ones.

 

Yet another Bro mentions in JB so cheap got amp can buy at RM138. He says at that px might as well tikam, if good then like earn many many. Yes labour tends to be cheap and nasty for car audio and as another Bro says Malaysia got sales tax, pxs of hardware more expensive. I would like to add to that by saying that indeed hardware pxs are cheaper in Singapore. Want cheap-cheap go SLS save the trouble of having to cross the causeway, but make sure U know what U need don't anyhow buy and don't listen to 'no knowledge' sales recommendations there. Any amp below px of S$200 can almost guarantee will be useless and more trouble than good. Run directly from any decent HU will get better results.

 

Well suffice to say, car audio install is install, and the expertise makes the biggest diff to get good audio and not waste money. Yes this is a long-long one, cuz basically I disagree W/ most of what is being said in this ICE Section so I explain so many reasons longer than long. Like I said anyone can flame throw as a reaction that's fine but I hope at least this will be of some help to those few who are seriously contemplating shelling out $$ to do up ICE.

 

AutoS

Edited May 1, 2002 by AutoS

[Skoda_Man]

Somehow I knew that you will make you way here... LOL

[AutoS]

So what U thinking Bro? "Die-lah AutoS cum already no peace and quite liaoz."

[Skoda_Man]

haha... no lah. Just waiting to see LONG LONG posting liao.

 

Bro, you few over the next few days? I want to discuss my upgrade with you to get a price indication.

 

What I want to do.

 

revamp entire Boot.

1. Sound Proof Boot

2. Relocate All amps

3. New 15" sub (2nd Hand will do liao)

4. New Mono-block for 15" (2nd Hand will do also)

5. 3 way front but using Passive X-Over for Mid-High and Mid-low

 

Got Tude amp for sale at cheap cheap price or not? 2nd hand also can...

 

of course, not forgeting the signature Auto-S 'Ah-Beng' type of lighting and display... LOL

[Fabiaman]

Hi AutoS,

 

How are you, did see your nick in ICE forum many occasions. Welcome here. Thanks so much for your comments, quite useful reading... makes me read them twice.

 

Commendable that you are praising and showing great respect to your competitors. This is a mark of a true gentleman and entrepreneur. yes, embrace competition as it will only spur you and your endeavours to greater heights.

 

Haha, also agree that anything below $200 is probably crap (generally true).

 

I probably might disagree a little bit that shops with people queueing or " pai tui" are in your words... "ard for long time, got good location and often becuz do more fast jobs". Shops that have good business are always for a reason... value for money, service, efficient etc etc. Also if like what you said, they do fast jobs instead of a meticulous job by a "master" , then I reckon, we should not witness "pai tui" in the first instance. Also ICE installers can only bluff you once. If I go to a pai tui shop and get my ICE and do not get any value for the expenditure versus going elsewhere, I will most likely never returning there. So in essence, if a pai tui shop is lousy, they will not have pai tui business for long!

[Guyver]

Wah!! your one postings has more words than probably 10 or even 100 of our postings..... Yah, i'm the one that say got cheap Amp RM$138.... i'm not good with sound... but i agree with the concept u mentioned that a master should be able to give u the best combination within your budget. As for cheap & good... everybody also want... right? to someone like me... who's ain't good with sound..... need experience pple like all of u to help..... btw, SpareTyre... u also ICE expert right? got pple to spar with u liao.....

[Guyver]

This is an art man.... so will need somebody that's real good with sounds in cars... think Auto S is fantastic.... can read from the postings that he's not the play play kind.. but hardcore man!!

[Turbobrick]

Hi AutoS, welcome and thanks for your contribution!

 

Enjoy your stay at MCF!

[AutoS]

Fabia,

 

Abt this pai tui thingy. I couldn't agree more W/ Ur logic. However that's why I also got to scratch my head when I see this logic not happening in real life.

 

It's not my place to go and pin point others who got pai-tui business but seriously got lack of expertise. Suffice to say quite a few ard.

 

But I can give U this example: If U got a car accessory shop, famous for years got pai-tui business at good location W/ good exposure. Forced to shift so they find a locale very close by, better facilities, more modern, bigger, better parking etc but not so well exposed. Would expect that biz should increase or at least maintain right? ...WRONG... I can quote U at least 3 fairly recent live examples. No reflection on capabilities, so why biz drop so drastically? If so pop B4, shift only nearby surely pple can find their way to them pronto. Even happen to me B4.

 

Example I gave in last post where pai-tui trophy shop kenah slam dunk in ICE forum, by initially one member than a whole lot of Bros join in. Till today still got pai-tui biz everyday and his Px not cheap summore.

 

Anyway Bro I not going to say U'r dead wrong, I just give my opinion and reasons as to why I say what I say. Seen a lot of installs coming from pop shops also need whole make over. Quite a few Bros in ICE Forum can testify to this. Just to let Bros here see the full pic B4 rushing out to pop shop expecting guaranteed fantastic install.

 

Guaranteed fantastic install should be given by the person whose gonna take charge of the install. He should be able to explain to U in good technical terms made comprehensible exactly why each individual component has been selected for the install and exactly what kinda SQ in detail terms U can expect. If he knows his stuff it shouldn't be difficult. If he don't ... This way U will know more clearly what to expect and that guy not so easy to get away W/ BS if the job ain't done to what promised.

 

And also auditioning the installers similarly budgeted completed installs to know 4 sure.

 

My suggestion forget abt trophies, pai-tui and statements that do not have specific back-up explainations. Do not factor these in to ICE decisions.

 

AutoS

Edited May 1, 2002 by AutoS

[AutoS]

Skoda,

 

No worries, anytime. U know I am always at Ur sevice.

 

AutoS

[Skoda_Man]

Please man, dun anyway put 'Service'. People get wrong impression one hor.

 

Might pop by tomorrow to La Kopi and discuss.

 

 

Skoda,

 

No worries, anytime. U know I am always at Ur sevice.

 

AutoS

[AutoS]

TurboBrick,

 

Thanx 4 Ur warm reception to Ur forum. Also thanx to Fabia, Utopia and Guyver 4 Ur kind replies. BTW Sparetyres also one of my kakis share ICE enthusiasm. Nice to get warm reception. Half-expecting some pple come and say who this opinionated SOB come here and first thing give all these craps etc.

 

Sometimes I get this cuz too candid hurt pples feelings or threaten pple's biz interests. But if not candid then how to give Bros honest feed-back? But nice to be here anyway and happy to be able to share whatever ICE info I have.

 

AutoS

Edited May 1, 2002 by AutoS

[Guyver]

Yah, u are welcome... i mean ... in life we can't do everything by ourself.... we need one another to make things work for us.... so u know ICE... another one knows about engine... etc... that's makes us a community.... which communicates....

[Sparetyre]

Yo AutoS,

 

So now the master is here....expect more long long postings..... But these are straight and honest comments/input/feedbacks, which people with weak hearts may not be able to take it...

 

Very honoured to have my nick mentioned very you ... Actually, I really learn alot from you. Brothers in this forum will definitely benefit from your presence.

 

Just one naughty question. What if after you shift, customers start to "pai tui"???

[Turbobrick]

Bro, we're glad to have another ICE Guru to advise us over here.