Aion V

[steveting99]

On 4/21/2025 at 2:41 PM, Jmontfort said:

Steve, 

What is your purpose in writing this informative but maybe flawed analysis?

You need to go down and negotiate and see what is the entire package and give us a more accurate analysis.

I don't think we buy cars based on dealer profit and markups.  It is the overall package.  The V is clearly a superior option in the market right now.

I have recommended the V to several friends and they have agreed that the value that V presents is unbeatable especially the future proofed fast charging battery, the front massage seats, heated front seats, etc etc cannot be found in competitive models.

Upon checking trade in value of their used cars with EV Hub's trade in booster and given discounts, the price of the AION V is effectively more competitive than the atto 3, which they were also considering.

I said your analysis is flawed because you did not consider the other actual trading factors, the numbers do not reveal the real deal.

@Jmontfort I was surprised and disappointed when working out the profit margin that VinCar (EV Hub) makes on the Aion V. Was expecting something more reasonable of around 30% to 40% of OMV and not in the triple digit figures. All the tech and features of the Aion V, as well as the manufacturer's warranty (from GAC) is included in the OMV price. The OMV is a key metric. 

Anyway, the numbers are based on what LTA publishes on their website for cost of cars on a monthly and yearly basis here: https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltagov/en/who_we_are/statistics_and_publications/statistics.html

Extracted cost of cars for March 2025 and specifically on the Aion V is shown below:

If you look at the line item highlighted in yellow for Aion V, the OMV ($31.9k), GST & Excise Duty ($3.4k + $6.4k = $9.8k), ARF ($36.6k), VES rebate (-$25k), EEAI (-$11.6k) rebate and registration fee ($0.4k) are all there. According to LTA, the basic cost for an Anion V (without CoE) is $42k. Missing from LTA number is the IU reader ($0.2k) and 1 year road tax ($1.5k) which increases the basic cost to $43.7k (before CoE). 

With current CoE Cat A being $97.7k, the total basic cost on the Aion V works out to $141.4k. Anything above this is VinCar (EV Hub) profit margin. Below is the quote from SG CarMart on the Anion V.

Which is around $180k. 

So VinCar's (EV Hub) profit margin is $38.8k, which I consider to be excessive. One can argue that the profit margin is less due to the 10 year free service offered by VinCar (EV Hub) which is around $3k. That still means $35.8k of profit margin is still there, well above the OMV of $31.9k and in triple digit territory.

Even if I trade in my ride with VinCar, most likely will get a low ball offer. VinCar (EV Hub) game plan is to maximize their profit margin - it's just the nature of the business. Hence I'd be better off selling my ride on SG CarMart or Carrousel to get the best price. Maybe VinCar (EV Hub) will offer me an overtrade and make my ride the same value as selling on SG CarMart / Carrousel. But VinCar (EV Hub) would still be aiming to get their $35.8k profit margin after the trade in.

There should be room to negotiate with VinCar (EV Hub) on the final price. I reckon a reasonable profit margin of 40% of OMV works out to be around $13k. When including the 10 year servicing cost of $3k and Cat A CoE of $97.7k the reasonable price for the Aion V should be $157.4k. Would VinCar (EV Hub) be willing do this to gain market share and get ahead of it's rivals like BYD? 

So fat in Q1 2025, GAC has sold 159 vehicles. BYD has sold 2,183 vehicles. The Atto 3 isn't the only competitor to Aion V.     

Competition is coming in the form of Leapmotor C10, MGS5 and Geely EX5/Proton eMas 7 are going to be released this year. All are good alternatives to Aion V. If Vertex Automobile wise up and makes the Jaecoo J6 a Cat A vehicle - things will start to look even more interesting.  

 

Edited April 22 by steveting99
removed a pic

[125Pegasus]

@steveting99 Thanks for sharing all the info. You speak like someone from the car industry. To a layman like me, I wouldnt know whats a reasonable price to pay the dealership for getting the car i want. Its is like telling us the milk is expensive because NTUC earns 1.80 out of the total price of 6 dollars. We wont understand why 1.80 is expensive and to general consumers we only look at the purchase price which is 6 dollars. You may want to share calculations for other cars in comparision to proof your point. How much is Xpeng or Zeekr's profit? Will be an insightful comparision.

 

I agree that competition is stiff and more EVs are coming in. I think leapmotor C10 and Emas 7(Geely EX5) may be comparable depending on their launch price and equipment. But MGS5, J6, Omoda E5 and Atto3 are quite abit smaller in size so i dont really think they are in the same category, especially the battery size. 

 

Anyway, dont be dissappointed. If you are shopping for EV based on profit margin. Maybe Tesla is the only deal out there. Haha. I believe direct sales should be the least profit margin.

Edited Tuesday at 01:09 PM by 125Pegasus

[steveting99]

On 4/22/2025 at 9:00 PM, 125Pegasus said:

@steveting99 Thanks for sharing all the info. You speak like someone from the car industry. To a layman like me, I wouldnt know whats a reasonable price to pay the dealership for getting the car i want. Its is like telling us the milk is expensive because NTUC earns 1.80 out of the total price of 6 dollars. We wont understand why 1.80 is expensive and to general consumers we only look at the purchase price which is 6 dollars. You may want to share calculations for other cars in comparision to proof your point. How much is Xpeng or Zeekr's profit? Will be an insightful comparision.

 

I agree that competition is stiff and more EVs are coming in. I think leapmotor C10 and Emas 7(Geely EX5) may be comparable depending on their launch price and equipment. But MGS5, J6, Omoda E5 and Atto3 are quite abit smaller in size so i dont really think they are in the same category, especially the battery size. 

 

Anyway, dont be dissappointed. If you are shopping for EV based on profit margin. Maybe Tesla is the only deal out there. Haha. I believe direct sales should be the least profit margin.

@125Pegasus The AD of Xpeng G6 (XPremium BEV) is even more greedier than VinCar (EV Hub). The OMV of the G6 standard range is $38.6k with basic cost less CoE of $59.2k. XPremium BEV is trying to flog off the G6 at $234k (with Cat B CoE of $117.9k) while making a huge $57k profit margin or 147% of OMV! Again, I consider this to be excessive. Please note that G6 is a Cat B vehicle - mainly due to the motor power output at 190kW. The road tax is also higher at $2.1k/year. It is also a bit larger in size to Aion Y in terms of length/width and wheelbase. The Aion V is taller so has a bit more headroom. G6 also has a much larger boot capacity compared to Aion V. The smaller LFP battery pack of 66kWhr means the G6 has a shorter driving range of 435km on WLTP standard. While I do like the G6 with the tech and features, the absence of a Cat A version on the standard range, shorter range and excessive profit margin of XPremium BEV has taken the G6 off the list. 

The Zeekr X is a smaller ride than Aion V and it's also in Cat B territory - so wasn't interested in doing a price analysis. Let me know if you want me to carry this out.

I had a look at a few comparable conti brands from Volkwagen ID4 and Skoda Enyaq vs Aion V. These European brands are built on the same platform architecture (believe it's called MEB) with styling differences to distinguish brands. Both have NMC battery packs with a longer WLTP range of 550km due to the bigger battery capacity of 82kWhr. Dimensions and wheelbase between ID4, Enyaq and Aion V are about the same. Aion V being a bit taller, giving more head room. Unfortunately both Volkswagen and Skoda don't offer Cat A versions of the ID4 or Enyaq, which means initial costs are more and yearly road tax is higher. Aion V wins out on this. 

For the ID4, the OMV is $45.6k. Basic cost less CoE works out to be $88.7k. With Cat B CoE of $117.9k, the basic cost with CoE is $206.6k. Volkswagen is asking $218.9k for the ID4 and the profit margin is $12.3k or 27% of OMV. I consider this to be fair and reasonable. 

On the Enyaq, the OMV is $47.4k. Basic cost less CoE works out to be $97.1k. With Cat B CoE of $117.9k, the basic cost with CoE is $215k. Skoda is asking $219.9k for the Enyaq and the profit margin is $4.9k or a little above 10% of OMV. This is a very reasonable margin and something at VinCar (EV Hub), XPremium BEV and other ADs can aspire to. 

If Skoda and Volkswagen can live off low double digit profit margins, why can't the rest do the same?

Edited Wednesday at 01:56 AM by steveting99
additional text

[125Pegasus]

@steveting99  Wow nice sharing. I think there is another dimension to look at profit margin. The legacy brands may cost more to make (compared to China). Place of build, labour cost, availibity of technology and build efficiency all contributes to this factor. Its a matter of u paying the carmakers more (higher OMV) or the dealers here more. Ultimately, u r paying the most to the Gov. Haha

Its an open market here anyway. Market forces will dictate the price. If there is no sales volume, brands will naturally reduce or give disocunt. V is rather new and im not sure if demand is healthy. Definitely takes time to adjust accordingly. Im sure they give some overtrade if they need the sales. I got some when trading in so maybe u can find out from SE to see if price hits the spot.

For traditional car brands in SG, i think the demand for EV may be much lesser. Today i feel confident in getting China made EV rather than from other palace. i trust they hv the technical expertise because legacy bands are now leaning forth to collaborate and use their technology. 

Just to share some first hand experience. Recently i also went car hunting w a fren. She was looking at entry conti EVs like the EQA and iX1/2. I told her to also take a look at smart #3 and Mini countryman electric. iX1 was quite good in value given that they provide huge overtrade, bringing the cost down by another 40/50k easily. The Merc was the most exp without much to offer(i guess SG still luv Merc). 

We also looked at the new Cupra Tavascan which is very gd looking inside out. The ID4 and Skoda Enyaq was rather blend in design and I cant seem to understand the handrest on the front seats of ID4/5, they dont look pleasing to me at all. 

All in all i think my fren very much prefer the Mini with the equipment and package that comes along but price is also rather steep (250k range). Unlike BMW, they dont really have much discount. I think Cupra is a very promising contender with a lower interest(2.08%) offer too. 

My personal opinion was that BMW and Merc's entry cars are not as premium as their mid size models. There is a huge quality difference. I guess you only get to enjoy the real build quality if u go for 3 series or C class and above. Otherwise the extra cost goes to the badge and some bragging rights. haha.

I guess u are now actively hunting for an EV. Enjoy the excitment and process. Dont get too carried away by the earning of dealers. Every business strategy is to earn more money. U can benchmark but i believe it should not be a reason to hold u back from a suitable purchase. 

Edited Wednesday at 08:04 AM by 125Pegasus

[Colin03]

Look into hybrid/petrol car if you are not willing to pay this amount 

[Evo5sg]

On 4/23/2025 at 4:58 PM, Colin03 said:

Look into hybrid/petrol car if you are not willing to pay this amount 

Many distributors of hybrid or petrol ar3 earning 30 to 40k margin 

[inlinesix]

On 4/23/2025 at 8:51 PM, Evo5sg said:

Many distributors of hybrid or petrol ar3 earning 30 to 40k margin 

On average, the margin is 20% - 30%.

 

[steveting99]

On 4/23/2025 at 4:58 PM, Colin03 said:

Look into hybrid/petrol car if you are not willing to pay this amount 

There's a number of reasons why EVs are going to be better than hybrid/petrol vehicles. In no particular order, some these are:

(1) Singapore government is going to phase out petrol vehicles starting in 2030. Ministry of Transport post is here: https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/press-releases/details/singapore-joins-the-collective-2030-zero-emission-vehicle-deployment-goal/#:~:text=It is aligned with Singapore's,our vehicle population by 2040. Pure petrol vehicle days are numbered. Registrations for diesel vehicles have already stopped on 1-Jan-2025 (post from Ministry of Transport is here: https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltagov/en/newsroom/2024/7/news-releases/registration-of-diesel-car-and-taxi-to-cease-on-1-january-2025-i.html#:~:text=Cleaner Energy Models-,Registration of Diesel Car and Taxi to Cease on 1,Push for Cleaner Energy Models&text=As announced at the Ministry,Scheme and Vintage Vehicle Scheme.) and existing owners of diesel vehicles are facing hefty annual road taxes. The cost savings of having a diesel vs. petrol is no longer there.

(2) Singapore government is giving out VES and EEAI rebates for EVs. A minimum of -$25k on the VES and up to -$15k on the EEAI to offset the Additional Registration Fee (ARF) to a maximum of -$40k based on the EV's Open Market Value (OMV).  Aion V and most Cat A EVs no longer have to pay any ARF. That's money back into owner's pocket that petrol owners don't get. Hybrid owners only get -$2.5k for 2025 which is 50% lower than in 2024. Eventually VES rebate for hybrids are going to disappear. 

(3) Better Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) on an EV. Without an ICE drivetrain and transmission/gearbox, an EV has better NHV characteristics. There's no engine/transmission noise so its much quieter in the cabin. The sound insulation on EV is always going to be better on B&B vehicles to ICE. Comparing the Subaru Forester to Aion V in terms of NVH is like night and day difference. 

(4) Vehicle breakdown reliability. A vehicle breakdown analysis in Europe's largest vehicle market (Germany) by Europe’s largest automobile association Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil Club (ADAC) was carried out recently. Report is here: https://presse.adac.de/meldungen/adac-ev/technik/adac-pannenstatistik-2025.html. The summary is that ADAC says EV's are 2.5x less likely to have a vehicle breakdown compared to ICE vehicles. 

In 2024, ADAC had 3.6 million call outs due to vehicle breakdown events and found that ICE vehicles broke down 9.4 vehicles per 1000 units compared to 3.8 EVs per 1000 units. Comparisons are of vehicles of the same age, i.e. 2020 ICE vehicle vs. 2020 EV. The vehicles are relatively new from 2020 to 2022 with age range between two to four years.  

There are some variability amongst manufacturers for both ICE and EVs. Surprisingly Toyota's C-HR, registered in 2020, has 63.1 breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles is the worst offender. On the EV side Hyundai's IONIQ 5 has 22.4 breakdowns per 1000 units due to problems with the integrated charging control unit (ICCU). The stars of the report are the Mini (0.3 breakdowns per 1000 units) and Audi A4 (0.4 breakdowns per 1000 units) which are on ICE side. On the EV side, the Tesla Model 3 is the star with just 0.5 breakdowns per 1000 units. So it very much depends on make/model one is getting.  

Most of the breakdowns are due to the defective starter battery (contributing to 44.9% of the 3.6 million vehicle breakdown events) . Looks like replacing the standard 12V lead acid battery with a more reliable 12V lithium ion battery is a simple way to improve reliability.  

(5) Value for money is better on EVs compared to ICE on B&B. I looked at the tech, features and what I'm paying for. The EVs are consistently of a higher standard (particularly those from China) and offer a lot more for the money compared to a similar price ICE vehicles. An example is the Subaru Forester 2.0i Eyesight Hybrid AWD vs. GAC Aion V. Both are similar in a lot of ways and price around the same. Both are SUVs, have a rugged box like shape and have open space feel. Both have similar dimensions and wheelbase. But on the inside, that's when things start to differ a lot. It's clear that Subaru hasn't done much for the past 10 years and things are looking cheap, old / stale. The inside of Aion V is at a different and higher level. I'm thinking : "Why should I pay so much for an inferior ride?"