BYD Sealion 7

[steveting99]

On 4/26/2025 at 1:21 AM, Lethalstrike said:

As inlinesix has mentioned, the OMV is not the cost price of EK and PML, although I know this is all we can see in order to simulate their profit margin. There is another wholesale or transfer price which is usually much higher than the OMV and that's the actual price EK and PML is buying from BMW Asia. This is absolutely secret info and nobody would know unless you are EK and PML. BMW is not alone, many other brands especially those with regional head offices in singapore does this. So the profit per car is not as obscene as what one can calculate based on public info such as OMV plus costs up. 

iX1 MSRP is $274k before overtrade and all other promos. Now they advertising promo on Facebook ads at $223,888 la. You go down still can nego a bit more if salesman hard up. Continental brands like MB, Audi, BMW, Volvo, VW and even Lexus the actual transacted purchase price is usually quite far off the MSRPs you see on the pricelist. 

@Lethalstrike Thanks for the clarification. I find it interesting the business model that BYD is using here in Singapore with Vantage Automotive being the official distributor of BYD cars. Then there are the dealers below VA including : Motor-East, BYD by 1826, Jack Cars, BYD by JC, and Harmony Auto. So the value chain is as follows.

BYD China (vehicle manufacturer) ---> Vantage Automotive Singapore (distributor) ---> Various dealers in Singapore---> Customer in Singapore

Compare the above to Tesla's business model here in Singapore:

Tesla China (vehicle manufacturer) ---> Tesla Singapore ---> Customer in Singapore

The reason I bring up Tesla is that there's a new Model Y RWD that competes directly with BYD's Sealion 7 Premium. Both SUVs are Cat B, both are RWD, have similar driving ranges, similar dimensions and wheelbase. Below is quote from Tesla's website for Cat B spec Model Y RWD (there's Cat A version also available!). Tesla is quite transparent on their costs - apart from OMV. This depends on certain options (wheel size, interior color and external paint color) when ordering the new Model Y. 

So Tesla China sells to Tesla Singapore at wholesale price to determine OMV. Tesla Singapore + margin then sells to final customer. So the question is what's the margin of Tesla Singapore to keep the lights on?

The clue is to look at the estimated ARF of $65.4k and back calculating the OMV of the new Model Y comes out to around $45.3k. The basic costs before Cat B CoE comes to about $88.7k and with and Tesla's $106.5k price (excluding CoE) indicates about $17.7k or 39% of OMV to keep the business going in Singapore. This seems fair and reasonable margin. 

BMW's business model is similar to BYD's. 

BMW Germany (vehicle manufacturer) ---> BMW Asia ---> Local dealers of Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto ---> Customer in Singapore

So yeah, BMW Asia and the local dealers have to share the markup after basic costs and before CoE. The basic cost for iX1 eDrive20 of $94.8k before CoE wont change much. Most are aware of current CoE prices are. With current Cat A CoE of $99.5k, the total comes out to $194.3k. Anything above this is margin. Question is what's fair and reasonable?

With the FB promo pricing of $233.9k means $29.6k margin or 63% of OMV. The margin has come down, but there's usually some caveats to any promo pricing. Best to check the fine print before signing on the dotted line.

[Terence2112]

On 4/26/2025 at 2:14 PM, steveting99 said:

@Lethalstrike Thanks for the clarification. I find it interesting the business model that BYD is using here in Singapore with Vantage Automotive being the official distributor of BYD cars. Then there are the dealers below VA including : Motor-East, BYD by 1826, Jack Cars, BYD by JC, and Harmony Auto. So the value chain is as follows.

BYD China (vehicle manufacturer) ---> Vantage Automotive Singapore (distributor) ---> Various dealers in Singapore---> Customer in Singapore

Compare the above to Tesla's business model here in Singapore:

Tesla China (vehicle manufacturer) ---> Tesla Singapore ---> Customer in Singapore

The reason I bring up Tesla is that there's a new Model Y RWD that competes directly with BYD's Sealion 7 Premium. Both SUVs are Cat B, both are RWD, have similar driving ranges, similar dimensions and wheelbase. Below is quote from Tesla's website for Cat B spec Model Y RWD (there's Cat A version also available!). Tesla is quite transparent on their costs - apart from OMV. This depends on certain options (wheel size, interior color and external paint color) when ordering the new Model Y. 

So Tesla China sells to Tesla Singapore at wholesale price to determine OMV. Tesla Singapore + margin then sells to final customer. So the question is what's the margin of Tesla Singapore to keep the lights on?

The clue is to look at the estimated ARF of $65.4k and back calculating the OMV of the new Model Y comes out to around $45.3k. The basic costs before Cat B CoE comes to about $88.7k and with and Tesla's $106.5k price (excluding CoE) indicates about $17.7k or 39% of OMV to keep the business going in Singapore. This seems fair and reasonable margin. 

BMW's business model is similar to BYD's. 

BMW Germany (vehicle manufacturer) ---> BMW Asia ---> Local dealers of Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto ---> Customer in Singapore

So yeah, BMW Asia and the local dealers have to share the markup after basic costs and before CoE. The basic cost for iX1 eDrive20 of $94.8k before CoE wont change much. Most are aware of current CoE prices are. With current Cat A CoE of $99.5k, the total comes out to $194.3k. Anything above this is margin. Question is what's fair and reasonable?

With the FB promo pricing of $233.9k means $29.6k margin or 63% of OMV. The margin has come down, but there's usually some caveats to any promo pricing. Best to check the fine print before signing on the dotted line.

Thank you for sharing that prospective owners need to check the fine print before signing on the dotted line, considering that you (to my best knowledge but I stand to be corrected) have not bought a bimmer from EK/PML before. Thank you so much! 
 

From yours truly

a current bimmer driver. 

[chuckycheese]

@Jp66https://youtu.be/03Hbm-yUxn8

[steveting99]

On 4/25/2025 at 8:52 PM, Rskc said:

Bro, have you visited EK or PML to try to buy a bimmer? The recommended price is NOT the price seasoned bimmer fan/owners would pay. 😄

@Rskc The iX1 eDrive20 was mentioned by @Kar_lover when I was doing the cost breakdown numbers on the Sealion 7.  Wasn't planning to do a cost breakdown of the iX1, but eventually did to find out margin being made.

Interestingly the OMV for BMW iX1 eDrive20 ($47k) is higher than BYD's Sealion 7 Premium ($38.5k). This higher cost has an impact on subsequent taxes and fees; i.e. GST, excise custom and ARF.

You probably know that the BYD is a bigger and more spacious ride as well as having a longer wheelbase compared to the bimmer. So there is a size difference between the two in favor of BYD.

In terms of features, the Sealion 7 comes with leather while iX1 eDrive20 has a Vegenza perforated material (i.e. synthetic). BYD Sealion 7 has a panoramic sunroof with a retractable shade while the BMW iX1 eDrive20 has none. The Sealion 7 has ventilated front seats while the iX1 eDrive20 doesn't. The build, fit and finish of the Sealion 7 will match most premium conti rides - see Bobby Ang's surprise youtube vide review of the Sealion 7. In terms of tech, BYD will be ahead of BMW, especially once the new ADAS features (referred to a God's eye C) is rolled out.

Assume you know that iX1 eDrive20 is Cat A ride while Sealion 7 is Cat B, which means the BMW will have around $20k price advantage due to the differences in CoE.

But somehow the Sealion 7 ended up costing less than iX1 eDrive20 - even with the current FB promotion by BMW?

Not sure what you're getting (in terms of features) with the higher OMV price on the iX1 eDrive20. Perhaps you can find out from BMW Asia, PML or EK and report back?

Edited April 26 by steveting99
Additional text

[Rskc]

On 4/26/2025 at 9:11 PM, steveting99 said:

@Rskc The iX1 eDrive20 was mentioned by @Kar_lover when I was doing the cost breakdown numbers on the Sealion 7.  Wasn't planning to do a cost breakdown of the iX1, but eventually did to find out margin being made.

Interestingly the OMV for BMW iX1 eDrive20 ($47k) is higher than BYD's Sealion 7 Premium ($38.5k). This higher cost has an impact on subsequent taxes and fees; i.e. GST, excise custom and ARF.

You probably know that the BYD is a bigger and more spacious ride as well as having a longer wheelbase compared to the bimmer. So there is a size difference between the two in favor of BYD.

In terms of features, the Sealion 7 comes with leather while iX1 eDrive20 has a Vegenza perforated material (i.e. synthetic). BYD Sealion 7 has a panoramic sunroof with a retractable shade while the BMW iX1 eDrive20 has none. The Sealion 7 has ventilated front seats while the iX1 eDrive20 doesn't. The build, fit and finish of the Sealion 7 will match most premium conti rides - see Bobby Ang's surprise youtube vide review of the Sealion 7. In terms of tech, BYD will be ahead of BMW, especially once the new ADAS features (referred to a God's eye C) is rolled out.

Assume you know that iX1 eDrive20 is Cat A ride while Sealion 7 is Cat B, which means the BMW will have around $20k price advantage due to the differences in CoE.

But somehow the Sealion 7 ended up costing less than iX1 eDrive20 - even with the current FB promotion by BMW?

Not sure what you're getting (in terms of features) with the higher OMV price on the iX1 eDrive20. Perhaps you can find out from BMW Asia, PML or EK and report back?

Dude, I don't know why you are replying to me with this feature comparison between SL7 and ix1, which I have totally no interest. 😂 I am merely politely telling you to get your facts correct on the actual (not listed, not recommended) transacted price of bimmers. One bro already told you it was sold just weeks ago at 208k. There were even times when certain bimmer models can be sold close or at cost.

SL7 itself is a good car, so too for other rides. SL7 is good for people transiting from ICE to EV.

Ok, let's just leave it here. 

[too204]

@steveting99 based on ur workings, Volkswagen ID series are selling at almost cost price right now. From another perspective, this is also quite a worrying sign right? 

[steveting99]

On 4/25/2025 at 11:11 PM, Tohto said:

Just ignored this keyboard warrior lah....

Basically non stop digging all the online data... no physical personal experience. 

@Tohto Thanks for the condescending comments. Do you have anything useful to add to the Sealion 7 thread that would help others in the body of knowledge and understanding - apart from the not for the first time cancel culture statement?

Don't recall seeing a cost breakdown of the Sealion 7 in this thread and thought it would be useful to know what the cost basis is. Maybe for those who are considering the Sealion 7 as their next ride, having objective and factual information would be useful. Can negotiate with the dealer on a fair and reasonable margin once the cost basis is known ($59k + Cat B CoE). Perhaps you don't agree with cost breakdown and there are errors in the logic? Okay, I'm willing to learn and be corrected. So let me know what's wrong with the numbers?

Understand that you've got the Skoda Enyaq EV. Perhaps you can advise how good the Enyaq is compared to the Sealion 7 to help others know more about your ride? Willing to contribute by doing a current cost breakdown analysis if you want.

Perhaps you can advise how well the results of BYD's Q1 2025 are? BYD's net profit margin is a little over 5% and they achieved this through massive scale by selling a little over 1 million vehicles, with 206,084 exported out of China - of which 2,183 of them landing in the shores of Singapore. BYD has not only become the largest EV seller in Singapore (see chart from Straits Times post attached), but also pushed past Toyota to become number 1 for Q1 2025 overall.

So while BYD makes a little over 5% by selling at wholesale into Singapore, the local distributor Vantage Automotive and the dealers can make over 95% on the Sealion 7 Premium - if they convince a customer fork out $212.9k and maximise their profits. Being a dealer is a lucrative business. 

If you want physical experience in the ride of a Sealion 7, Bobby Ng has you covered in his YouTube video review.

Do note that Bobby comments on the Sealion 7 includes ride quality, handling, Noise Vibration Harshness (NVH), build quality, engineering, fit and finish, as well as the premium features on offer. Bobby says his Audi feels like a cheap car compared to the BYD Sealion 7. You're welcome to contact Bobby and argue against his review of the Sealion 7. Bobby has lots of physical experience from numerous makes/models.

 

[Volvobrick]

On 4/24/2025 at 10:36 AM, inlinesix said:

Regen brake is more efficient than mechanical.

It saved me a couple of time in a China Van.

It saved you because you were not driving fast enough.... 

[inlinesix]

On 4/27/2025 at 9:38 PM, Volvobrick said:

It saved you because you were not driving fast enough.... 

How to drive fast?

More than 70 chime keeps on making noise

[Volvobrick]

On 4/27/2025 at 9:52 PM, inlinesix said:

How to drive fast?

More than 70 chime keeps on making noise

70 won't even need any rear brakes! 

[marcuspeck]

On 4/27/2025 at 8:56 PM, steveting99 said:

@Tohto Thanks for the condescending comments. Do you have anything useful to add to the Sealion 7 thread that would help others in the body of knowledge and understanding - apart from the not for the first time cancel culture statement?

Don't recall seeing a cost breakdown of the Sealion 7 in this thread and thought it would be useful to know what the cost basis is. Maybe for those who are considering the Sealion 7 as their next ride, having objective and factual information would be useful. Can negotiate with the dealer on a fair and reasonable margin once the cost basis is known ($59k + Cat B CoE). Perhaps you don't agree with cost breakdown and there are errors in the logic? Okay, I'm willing to learn and be corrected. So let me know what's wrong with the numbers?

Understand that you've got the Skoda Enyaq EV. Perhaps you can advise how good the Enyaq is compared to the Sealion 7 to help others know more about your ride? Willing to contribute by doing a current cost breakdown analysis if you want.

Perhaps you can advise how well the results of BYD's Q1 2025 are? BYD's net profit margin is a little over 5% and they achieved this through massive scale by selling a little over 1 million vehicles, with 206,084 exported out of China - of which 2,183 of them landing in the shores of Singapore. BYD has not only become the largest EV seller in Singapore (see chart from Straits Times post attached), but also pushed past Toyota to become number 1 for Q1 2025 overall.

So while BYD makes a little over 5% by selling at wholesale into Singapore, the local distributor Vantage Automotive and the dealers can make over 95% on the Sealion 7 Premium - if they convince a customer fork out $212.9k and maximise their profits. Being a dealer is a lucrative business. 

If you want physical experience in the ride of a Sealion 7, Bobby Ng has you covered in his YouTube video review.

Do note that Bobby comments on the Sealion 7 includes ride quality, handling, Noise Vibration Harshness (NVH), build quality, engineering, fit and finish, as well as the premium features on offer. Bobby says his Audi feels like a cheap car compared to the BYD Sealion 7. You're welcome to contact Bobby and argue against his review of the Sealion 7. Bobby has lots of physical experience from numerous makes/models.

 

@steveting99, I think prices listed on sgcarmart is just indicative. Sure prices online is what potential buyers will see first before even asking or heading down to showrooms to ask for the actual prices of the rides. Every AD has different ways (put it correctly, creative ways) to make a deal that both buyers can “swallow” and dealers to make their margins. 
So I can speak only for myself is that once I go through YouTube reviews (I don’t know who Bobby is, forgive my limited knowledge. I only know Thomas from autogefühl, I shortlisted and bought my A Class, GLB class and Škoda Enyaq after watching his reviews alone), then head down to perform test drive and then talk about price. If the price is within my budget, then it’s a deal (usually I will still push for the salesman to make the package sweeter). 
After all, choosing and buying a car should be a pleasant experience (I mean after all SG is notoriously known as having the most expensive cars in the world), we should enjoy it. Numbers are just indicative, but it shouldn’t be a deal breaker. 
Back to the Sealion, I have not tested the car yet, but I’ve tested the Seal, Tesla Y, and ID4/5. I chose the Enyaq because of the sheer amount of space in the boot for the family + it is fully equip with all the extras (HUD, sunroof that can open and with shades, etc). Family is happy with it and so am I. 
 

Here is the link to Autogefuhl Sealion 7: 

 

Edited April 27 by marcuspeck

[macrosszero]

BYD hasn’t been great on the trade-in front so while they can offer you a solid proposition on the car they’re selling you, they may be lowballing you on the car you’re giving up.

In my case it was a delta of around 4k a year on depreciation of my car between trade in and market prices

[Tohto]

On 4/27/2025 at 10:26 PM, marcuspeck said:

@steveting99, I think prices listed on sgcarmart is just indicative. Sure prices online is what potential buyers will see first before even asking or heading down to showrooms to ask for the actual prices of the rides. Every AD has different ways (put it correctly, creative ways) to make a deal that both buyers can “swallow” and dealers to make their margins. 
So I can speak only for myself is that once I go through YouTube reviews (I don’t know who Bobby is, forgive my limited knowledge. I only know Thomas from autogefühl, I shortlisted and bought my A Class, GLB class and Škoda Enyaq after watching his reviews alone), then head down to perform test drive and then talk about price. If the price is within my budget, then it’s a deal (usually I will still push for the salesman to make the package sweeter). 
After all, choosing and buying a car should be a pleasant experience (I mean after all SG is notoriously known as having the most expensive cars in the world), we should enjoy it. Numbers are just indicative, but it shouldn’t be a deal breaker. 
Back to the Sealion, I have not tested the car yet, but I’ve tested the Seal, Tesla Y, and ID4/5. I chose the Enyaq because of the sheer amount of space in the boot for the family + it is fully equip with all the extras (HUD, sunroof that can open and with shades, etc). Family is happy with it and so am I. 
 

Here is the link to Autogefuhl Sealion 7: 

 

Welcome to the Enyaq family.

 

[steveting99]

On 4/26/2025 at 4:04 PM, Terence2112 said:

Thank you for sharing that prospective owners need to check the fine print before signing on the dotted line, considering that you (to my best knowledge but I stand to be corrected) have not bought a bimmer from EK/PML before. Thank you so much! 
 

From yours truly

a current bimmer driver. 

@Terence2112 Hope you got a fair and reasonable price from EK/PML on your bimmer. 

It's important to read and check the fine print as BMW Asia and PML will try to minimize their costs by trying to avoid costly warranty repairs. Nothing personal - it's just business. An example of a costly warranty repair is the battery pack. Fellow MCF member eleong is trying to get BMW Asia and PML to honor the battery warranty when his bimmer's battery had severe degradation issue and State of Health (SoH) is now down to 42% after 5.5 years (885 charge cycles) with low mileage (22,581 kms). The battery degradation is well within BMW manufacturer's stated warranty period of 6 years/ 100,000kms. The bimmer's battery SoH has degraded well below the industry acceptable norm of 70%, despite eleong faithfully getting the bimmer regularly serviced at PML and following manufactuer's instructions on exercising the battery. 

The response from BMW Asia and PML back to eloeng on the battery degradation issue does not inspire a lot of confidence on wanting to be a bimmer owner. BMW Asia and PML is playing the delay game until the 6 year time period is up so they can say the battery warranty is void. Can read about it in the electric cars thread here: 

Believe that BYD offers a 10 year / 200,000 kms battery warranty on the Sealion 7 - which is quite outstanding by the way. If the Sealion 7 battery's SoH had dropped to 42% in 5.5 years like what eleong's bimmer experienced (don't believe it would due BYD's LFP blade battery technology) - BYD and VA would be on the hook to replace the degraded and expensive battery.

So, yeah lor - read the fine print and ask what if questions before signing on the dotted line. Will save you a lot of heart / head ache later on if the event occurs.  

Edited April 30 by steveting99
typo and additional text

[steveting99]

On 4/27/2025 at 12:54 AM, too204 said:

@steveting99 based on ur workings, Volkswagen ID series are selling at almost cost price right now. From another perspective, this is also quite a worrying sign right? 

@too204 March 2025 OMV for the ID4 Pro is $45.6k and basic cost (once factoring in duties, fees and taxes) before Cat B CoE is $88.7k. With Cat B CoE of $117k, the basic costs comes out to $205.7k.

List price for the ID4 Pro from Volkswagen Singapore Group (VSG) is $$291k. There's a promotion discount of $73k which has some conditions attached to it such as trade in, dealer financing and dealer insurance. Without these, the discount isn't that high and an all cash price goes up to around $236.9k or a margin of $31.2k (68% of OMV).

Volkswagen uses a larger and more expensive NMC chemistry battery pack of 82kWhr - usable is 77kWhr. Benefits is a longer distance of around 550km on a single charge under WLTP test cycle. Probably 40% to 50% of the OMV is tied to just the battery pack itself. The manufacturing costs in Germany is also much higher than in vehicles made in China (by at least 30%) - that is also contributing to the higher OMV costs. 

Business model for Volkswagen is:

ID made in Germany ---> Volkswagen Singapore Group ---> Customer in Singapore

Unless Volkswagen can get its production costs down in Germany (doubtful on this) to sell below costs doesn't make sense for VSG. Most likely the difference between the selling price has to be made up on the low ball trade in and high dealer financing costs. See what happened to fellow MCRer hky1985 when he traded in his Toyota to get a new bimmer here: 

Basically hky1985 got cheated by the dealer by around $18k on the trade in. The dealer's objective is to maximize profit margin and keep the lights on the business in Singapore.    

Edited Monday at 03:07 AM by steveting99
typo and additional text

[Soundphile]

the dealer's profit margin.. has always been like this. you can't expect the profit margin of a C-Class to be same as tat of an S-Class, do you?

this is what differentiates the buyers' profile apart..

not everyone looks at only the lowest dealer's profit margin when buying a car. or put it another way, they are not too bothered by this. 

[Theoldjaffa]

Lots of Sealions going around the roads now.

Personally I like the car’s design and interior but I have not had any chance to test drive it (also the Seal), because the showrooms are always crowded, the sales are always busy, and when I was at ZSM during off peak hours, the sales lady who served me was not very willing to talk to me. Maybe they see unker in crocs is just looking for fun nia.

I did try the Atto3 before BYD became mainstream. It’s a good car to drive but interior is quite tacky.

The Tesla sales advisors are much more courteous, passionate about the car and knowledgeable in comparison.

And it’s moot talking about car costs and margins la. Businesses all want to earn max margins and consumers all want the best deal. How to settle liddat? Go down physically to the AD and negotiate lah! The price you see in sgcm is not the price you pay! Don’t be a kuku! 

and why would one be concerned about how much margin the dealer makes? 

When you buy BBT do you care how much it costs the shop?

When you buy a Balenciagia tee do you care how much it costs to make?

If you like the product, can afford to buy it (MCF standard is full cash) then buy la.