Electric MPVs From China - Who is going to be the Alphard killer?

[Voodooman]

On 11/26/2024 at 6:11 PM, Jev said:

This is ballpark. Dealing prices around 5-10k off list, dealers buying it around 15k below list.

 

EVs aren't losing 50% of their value in under 2 years in sg.

Yup, it is an exaggeration.  Anyone selling a 1 year old EV at 50% of original purchase price please PM me.

As for insurance payout in the event of total loss, it is closer to market value less dealer's margin but it is also not scrap (ie paper) value. 

[Beregond]

On 11/26/2024 at 9:27 PM, Voodooman said:

Yup, it is an exaggeration.  Anyone selling a 1 year old EV at 50% of original purchase price please PM me.

As for insurance payout in the event of total loss, it is closer to market value less dealer's margin but it is also not scrap (ie paper) value. 

Have meh??? this is the no 1 myth of MCF leh, my friend sell his 3 year old model 3 for another EV, still manage to get back a good sum of money,

where got 50% for 1 year old EV, if got i straight change car at once, 

No joke. 

[Sdf4786k]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:40 PM, Voodooman said:

Huh? 50% discount on a 1 day old EV? I must be looking at the wrong place. 

Not discount.. write off .. check out the scrap omv of sgcarmart to know what I mean

[Voodooman]

On 12/3/2024 at 7:27 AM, Sdf4786k said:

Not discount.. write off .. check out the scrap omv of sgcarmart to know what I mean

You are referring to resale value or insured value (in the event of total write off)?  You know insured value is not scrap value, right? 

The only scenario i can think of, ie. scrap value to apply on day 1, is totalling the EV while DUI.  Driver will not be covered but it applies to ICE car too.  

[Davidklt]

On 11/24/2024 at 11:41 AM, Unltd said:

The way the market is changing, regular ICE will also have no or low resale value soon (I suspect 2026), because they need to be replaced by Hybrid or EV. Moving forward with the way our COE works, EV resale value should start to be better, but of course the major issue hindering that is advancement in technology, where the older iterations have much less features, that’s again what is generally affecting EV cars.

You must look forward and think what is to come, the fact is you can only go with hybrid or EV, so ICE will die and the resale of it will drop. Look at it from diesel perspective, I am not sure about you, but I drove diesel cars for a long time because of the cost savings in terms of fuel. However when the subsidy changed and it no longer become more economical, coupled with the heavy loading for road tax, it died, in the first years or so of the announcement, the resale was still very good. But once people and the market catches on, it is a dud.

So I suspect the same thing will happen, ICE will go the way of diesel in Singapore due to our regulations. For now (around 4~6 years) hybrid is probably still good to buy, because of the tax structure and for the average person who drives maybe 20k km, after calculating road tax, insurance and fuel, you probably still save $$$ over an EV with no range anxiety and no need to fight over limited EV infrastructure. But again, this is temporary, only for the medium term. 

In the longer term, once the bells and whistles of EVs are similar and only incremental, that is when EV prices should have good resale value. Because the new model ain’t much different from the old and you save $$$ buying old.

Actually, I dont think so. ICE would continue to be where it is unless there are taxation changes for already registered cars. There would not be registration of new ICE cars. Thats all. It is a separate pond with its own set of demand and supply. 

[Davidklt]

On 11/26/2024 at 3:41 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

Can I please clarify with you on the following: 

1. No resale price: Are you an ex-EV owner who sold your EV and sold it at a massive loss of up to 50% after 1.5 years of use? I understand that there is no scrap value (PARF rebate) for some models like the Atto 3, but when it comes to calculating the biggest component of car costs, it is the annual depreciation, rather than the scrap value (PARF rebate) at the end of 10 years. 

Based on the asking selling price of resale Atto 3s, I find it difficult to understand your negative sentiment that a used Atto 3 depreciates at >50% after 1.5 years. A quick search at sgcarmart (link: https://www.sgcarmart.com/used-cars/listing?q=atto+3&fr=2023&to=2023&avl=&ord=RGD_ASC) reveals that 2 June 2023 registered Atto 3s retail at $144,800 or an annual depreciation of $17k, which is almost a straight line depreciation from day 1 when the car first rolled out of the showroom, which was sold at $174,888 (link here of pricing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n6DNsf1b4Q in June 2023). 

Correct me if I am wrong on this straight line depreciation calculation as the annual depreciation of a June 2023 Atto is at $17,489, thus 1.5 years of annual depreciation is $17,489 x 1.5 = $26,234. So, if we minus off this $26,234 from the initial purchase price of $174,888, it is $174,888 - $26,234 = $148,654 which is not very far off the selling price of what we are seeing being posted on sgcarmart for these 2 June 2023 resale Atto 3s. 

Thus, I find it hard to fathom if judging by your post that used EV's value drop 50% after 1.5 years, we would see Atto 3s resale prices at around the $90k region. However, this is not true. Even we factor in the used car dealer's very handsome profit of $15,000 for taking in a used June 2023 Atto 3, it means the original owner should still get get back $129,800 which is 75% of the value of the price he bought the Atto 3 at in June 2023. Unless the used car dealer profits >$50k per Atto 3 (which I seriously doubt so), it is certainly no where near the 50% loss that you had quoted after 1.5 years of use. 

2. Total loss: If any car gets into a accident where the car needs to be written off, wouldn't the owner of the car be compensated by the insurer at fair market value of a similar aged car model in the market? Thus, if we would be reference back the example of a June 2023 Atto 3, why would the owner in this scenario only receive $90k back from the insurer when a similarly aged Atto 3 is retailing at $144,800? 

I am clearly confused thus would greatly appreciate your kind enlightenment on the above! 

You cant take sgcarmart listing as a benchmark.

People can list at any price they want based on a linear depreciation but it does not mean that price would sell. Or the transacted price would be based on the listing price.

People esp Singaporeans buying second hand cars in SG would always be opportunistic. ie lowball. And if the seller is under time pressure to sell the car, who knows if they might accept a much lower price ?

[Lala81]

On 11/26/2024 at 9:27 PM, Voodooman said:

Yup, it is an exaggeration.  Anyone selling a 1 year old EV at 50% of original purchase price please PM me.

As for insurance payout in the event of total loss, it is closer to market value less dealer's margin but it is also not scrap (ie paper) value. 

My friend's friend drives a merc BEV. cos he's a 2nd hand dealer and cannot find it anyone to sell to after he took it in. So he took the car 😆
But that's 2022/2023. So things may have changed.

anyway, if you buy the more mass market BEVs like tesla, BYD should not be such a loss.

Edited December 3, 2024 by Lala81

[Lala81]

want to buy BEV, then don't be scared of trade in value lol.

similarly with ICE vehicles, don't need to be scared what will happen to trade in value. People won't go JB to pump petrol after 2030 or even 2040? Lol It's not a foreseeable problem until into the 2030s.

The people who need to be scared are petrol station franchise owners etc (if there are such a thing)

 

Edited December 3, 2024 by Lala81

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:19 PM, Davidklt said:

You cant take sgcarmart listing as a benchmark.

People can list at any price they want based on a linear depreciation but it does not mean that price would sell. Or the transacted price would be based on the listing price.

People esp Singaporeans buying second hand cars in SG would always be opportunistic. ie lowball. And if the seller is under time pressure to sell the car, who knows if they might accept a much lower price ?

@Davidklt 

Hi, yes, I understand and believed that i stated that the listed price in sgcarmart are already 'jacked up' artificially to leave room for negotiation downwards. The same applies for new cars and property as well. 

However, that doesn't mean that the listed prices are generally artificial to the point where one can straight away assume an outright $10-30k discount off every used car listed price. At least, I have never bought a used car that has such a massive rate of discount off the listed price. A more common quantum of discount is in the range of $5000 - $8000 on average. Therefore, listed prices are still relatively accurate subjected to a variance of $5000 - $8000 discount (on average) for condition/mileage/number of owners/colour/warranty. Perhaps, you care to share any personal purchase experiences where you managed to snag a massive $10-30k discount off a listed used car price? 

Furthermore, the point I was trying to make was no 1.5 years old are selling at 50% discount off their original new car selling price. That is simply untrue and in my opinion 'fear mongering' without basis/proof on the resale value of EVs. 

[Enye]

Will never consider full size 7 seater mpv based on todays charging technology and infrastructure locally as well as in Malaysia

imagine the inconvenience and time wasted by the whole family during charging and as well as range anxiety with the entire family on board constantly looking out for the next available charging points when on a road trip

resale value is really secondary

😬😅

Edited December 3, 2024 by Enye

[Volvobrick]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:38 PM, Lala81 said:

The people who need to be scared are petrol station franchise owners etc (if there are such a thing)

 

Yeah, S-whole sees it coming too! 

 

ExxonMobil is said to weigh sale of US$1 billion Singapore gas stations
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/international/asean/exxonmobil-said-weigh-sale-us1-billion-singapore-gas-stations

 

[inlinesix]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:38 PM, Lala81 said:

The people who need to be scared are petrol station franchise owners etc (if there are such a thing)

All these sites are bid at exorbitant price.

Petrol Company can turn it into EV charging station + F&B + Children Playground.

[Voodooman]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:30 PM, Lala81 said:

My friend's friend drives a merc BEV. cos he's a 2nd hand dealer and cannot find it anyone to sell to after he took it in. So he took the car 😆
But that's 2022/2023. So things may have changed.

anyway, if you buy the more mass market BEVs like tesla, BYD should not be such a loss.

Discount yes but not 50% to sticker price for a 1-yr old EV, as claimed by a few here. I wish it is true. 

[Sevenseven]

Anyone driving the new Denza D9 now?trying to get some reviews and the real time mileage.

 

[Unltd]

On 12/3/2024 at 12:14 PM, Davidklt said:

Actually, I dont think so. ICE would continue to be where it is unless there are taxation changes for already registered cars. There would not be registration of new ICE cars. Thats all. It is a separate pond with its own set of demand and supply. 

Agree to disagree, look at vintage or diesel cars now. I am not referring to the small handful which will become collectibles, I am referring to the general population of cars. 

Taxation changes for registered cars are already there with additional loading after certain years, for vintage there is additional mileage restriction. 

The separate pond is akin to vintage and diesel cars now in future for ICE.

[Rskc]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:30 PM, Lala81 said:

My friend's friend drives a merc BEV. cos he's a 2nd hand dealer and cannot find it anyone to sell to after he took it in. So he took the car 😆
But that's 2022/2023. So things may have changed.

anyway, if you buy the more mass market BEVs like tesla, BYD should not be such a loss.

It is a MERC BEV. In my own personal view, give me free I also dont want. Why wanna sit on a BEV 2nd guessing what battery it gets from and put my family at risk? Farasis? I havent even heard of Farasis until merc bev became infamous known. So no thanks. Cars already so expensive SG. Why risk further? Ask your friend friend to try trading in and sell say a tesla model Y at 20% off market selling price, I will be the 1st to offer. 😄 

Edited December 4, 2024 by Rskc

[Davidklt]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:58 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

@Davidklt 

Hi, yes, I understand and believed that i stated that the listed price in sgcarmart are already 'jacked up' artificially to leave room for negotiation downwards. The same applies for new cars and property as well. 

However, that doesn't mean that the listed prices are generally artificial to the point where one can straight away assume an outright $10-30k discount off every used car listed price. At least, I have never bought a used car that has such a massive rate of discount off the listed price. A more common quantum of discount is in the range of $5000 - $8000 on average. Therefore, listed prices are still relatively accurate subjected to a variance of $5000 - $8000 discount (on average) for condition/mileage/number of owners/colour/warranty. Perhaps, you care to share any personal purchase experiences where you managed to snag a massive $10-30k discount off a listed used car price? 

Furthermore, the point I was trying to make was no 1.5 years old are selling at 50% discount off their original new car selling price. That is simply untrue and in my opinion 'fear mongering' without basis/proof on the resale value of EVs. 

I cant comment on behalf of the thread starter. But I think the more likely scenario is he needs to get rid of this car due to some time pressure eg. booked new car thinking he can sell his old car in time , changing family needs etc but simply no one wants to buy it. Hence, he chose to have the cash back based on paper value, either scrap or exported. This is how one can incur 50% loss in 1.5 years. 

Edited December 4, 2024 by Davidklt

[Jev]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:30 PM, Lala81 said:

My friend's friend drives a merc BEV. cos he's a 2nd hand dealer and cannot find it anyone to sell to after he took it in. So he took the car 😆
But that's 2022/2023. So things may have changed.

anyway, if you buy the more mass market BEVs like tesla, BYD should not be such a loss.

This should be interesting - someone trying to sell their 15 day old BYD M6 https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=1355069

 

Listed for same price as new (they already took 10k loss on the COE move)