Electric MPVs From China - Who is going to be the Alphard killer?

[benoit16]

On 2/24/2025 at 2:54 PM, Sindion said:

Hi registered to chip in, as I found the info on this thread very helpful over the last few weeks when deciding on taking the plunge to switch from ICE to EV, and also which EV MPV to get as it was time to change vehicle. I'm changing over from a VW Sharan. Sharing my comparisons and the factors which were important to me, as below.

ICE/hybrid
1) Toyota Alphard/Vellfire: Relatively updated feature-wise, traditional Toyota design/reliability. The "traditional design" was also a minus for my wife, who has never been able to shake the impression that "it's a van." I liked that the 2nd row captain seat controls were on a removable remote, as I wouldn't always want the kids to be able to fiddle with the controls as they wish. However, the price isn't competitive for the features offered, by far, compared with the Chinese EV offerings. Did not test drive.

2) Kia Carnival: Acceptable design and interior, but lacking feature-wise. With everything in the car being relatively "manual" such as converting the 3rd row, seat adjustments, etc. and lacking any distinguishing features other models have to make up for that, I did not think it was worth considering at its price point. Did not test drive.

3) Nissan Serena: Similar to the Carnival, with an even more "van-like" design like the Alphard/Vellfire. Again, most things are relatively "manual" compared to the Chinese EVs, although a standout point was the boot with 2 separate openings (larger and smaller) for convenience. Did not test drive.

4) Hyundai Palisade: The interior layout and features felt dated, again losing out on modern features compared to the Chinese EVs. Nothing stood out at all, and also relatively expensively priced for what's offered. Did not test drive.

5) Honda Odyssey: Apart from an updated instrument cluster/screen, failed to impress in terms of design and features compared to my VW Sharan. Even though pricing is competitive, it gave me the feeling that I might as well save the money and endure the Sharan's maintenance headaches until end of COE. Not able to test drive as the parallel importer only had that 1 unit which had already been sold. 

Overall, the ICE/hybrid options offered left me feeling disappointed as they did not offer much, or much more relative to the price compared with my Sharan. Didn't consider a continental brand this time round, after my current very poor experience with VW maintenance over the last 5+ years. Haha yes, I am generalising, and it is personal bias, but it is what it is.

Moving on to Chinese EV options:
1) Zeekr 009: Luxurious interior and exterior, with extensive features. Standout points included the solidity and power of the test driving experience and the presence of a driver's HUD. However, high road tax and high cost at the  upper bound of what I was willing to pay for a new car, and it didn't feel worth the extra $$ compared to Denza/Xpeng.

2) Maxus Mifa 7/9: Design and interior quality was middling, with no standout points. After coming from BYD, it simply gave me the feel of "why should I pay this much more compared to buying a BYD M6, when it doesn't seem much better?". Also had a similar experience to Chipsahoy at the start of this thread, where after spending 15 minutes in the showroom walking around, no SA was available despite there not being a crowd. Did not bother waiting further to speak to anyone and consider a test drive.

3) BYD M6: Truly impressed - good design and interior quality, with great modern features. With 3 kids, no captain seats in 2nd row can be a bonus since no need to argue over who gets to sit there. Also, Cat A COE and lower road tax. However, truly tiny boot space without folding down 3rd row seats. Overall my wife's top choice since it offers the best value for money. Test drive was fine, although slightly anaemic when trying to accelerate, which is acceptable given its nature as a family vehicle.

4) Denza D9: Excellent build and interior quality, although design-wise it's also relatively "van-like". Much has been said about it already, will not repeat those points already made. Test drive quality was good. Unfortunately, it lacks some of the seat comfort features for the front row at default trim, and the coffee colour option was pretty off-putting (we were looking for non-gray, but wanted to avoid black interior if possible).

5) Xpeng X9: Futuristic design which isn't for everyone, excellent interior quality and features at its price point. Test drive quality was good, with the best turning radius. We liked the coffee-coloured option for the interior, which was much lighter compared to the D9.

In the end, we chose the Xpeng X9. Sorry to disappoint, as it seems like more people in the discussion here are D9 owners/interested in the D9! 😅 To contribute to the discussion, here is a list of the selling points (to us), and also some negative points for the X9.

- Compared with the full featured D9, the X9 is slightly cheaper.
- The design may or may not work for you; we like it well enough and it's not "van-like" for my wife. I shall think of it as a spaceship in the future...
- Lower height (1.7 m+) so it doesn't run the minor risk of meeting carpark height restrictions like the D9.
- Great turning radius, especially important when driving a long MPV.
- Full auto-parking, which the D9 unfortunately doesn't offer.
- Most features offered at that price point compared to any of the other options, although honestly not super crucial for us. E.g. TV screen, LED interior lighting, fully electronic seats + electronic conversion of boot, suspension height adjustment when parked.
- The screen UI is highly customisable compared to the D9; icons/shortcuts are more adjustable to your own optimal layout.
- In built recording (sentry mode) can be enabled without having to install an added battery pack, like for the D9.
- The driver can choose to lock seat/vehicle controls for the 2nd and 3rd rows, so that kids can't fiddle with things without permission. This was the key differentiating factor for my wife, as this can't be done for the D9.
- The most "button-less" option amongst those we checked out. Pros and cons to this design philosophy, although personally I prefer physical buttons to adjust the things that would most commonly need adjusting during the drive, such as aircon controls, as you can't even adjust the aircon vent direction without using the screen. Will have to see how this pans out.
- Lower battery/vehicle warranty compared to Denza, and fewer servicings in the package.

Overall, the X9 is a riskier option in terms of longer-term support and resale value, as Xpeng just entered SG last year and has a relatively small foothold in Singapore compared to BYD. Service centre is also only at Ubi, so sucks if you live in the west/north of SG. The Denza D9 is definitely a safer choice. We took the plunge for it over the D9 due to the extra features discussed above. Hopefully, it won't turn out to be a bad gamble. 😂

welcome sir! join our xpeng chat! haha

I chose x9 as well over d9 for largely similar reasons!

[Unltd]

On 2/22/2025 at 5:06 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

Yes, even the CEOs themselves understand that there will be a consolidation to 10-20 brands at the end. Right now, based on local consumer preferences and trends (at least cars you saw plying the public roads), it appears that BYD, Geely - Zeekr/Xpeng and SIAC - MG will make the cut, thus I would say that it is relatively safer to proceed with these brands. 

Yes, exactly that, thanks for your thoughts on what you feel will still be around, I know SIAC is state owned and unlikely to ever “fold”. However I was not aware the MG brand is popular, the looks and features seem good.

perhaps can consider the MG MPV too.

[Heartlander]

In case any not aware, the MG MPV is rebagded Mifa 9.

[Tohto]

On 2/24/2025 at 10:40 PM, Unltd said:

Yes, exactly that, thanks for your thoughts on what you feel will still be around, I know SIAC is state owned and unlikely to ever “fold”. However I was not aware the MG brand is popular, the looks and features seem good.

perhaps can consider the MG MPV too.

For MG their ICE already quite common in China before EV fully kick off.

[Chipsahoy8919]

@Sindion 

Welcome to the China e-MPV club where dubious resale value (>50% drop expected after 1 year) and unsolicited ridicule (say no to China EVs, period) may await you.

When I did my shopping, the list was also narrowed down to the D9 and X9. My family actually preferred the X9 (especially the roof mounted BMW 7-series like screen, hidden air con outlets, and completely flat cargo area with 3rd rows electrically folded) but back in November, the car was not available for test drive and selling price unknown. I will be actively following the X9 though as MPV-dads won't be swapping their car for a sedan anytime soon, thus the next ride may be the X9! 

Is it possible to share the annual depreciation of the X9? 😅

I must say that for us China e-MPV owners, we are indeed courageous (or stupid to some) for spending $300k on an EV, and what's more, one that hails from China where the infamous Chery QQ is forever etched in most driver's psyche since the 2000s. But at least, we put our money where our mouth is. Thus, holding my breath to see how the eventual resale value pans out and at least comforted by the likes of you (and other D9/X9 owners here) who felt the same way that I did where we saw past the brand credentials, and was purely weighing the car on its own merits of value to quality. Been seeing more D9s and 009s on the road as well, waiting to see my 1st X9 on the road soon! 

[Annapurna]

Like many of you, I did research on a few hybrid cars like Kia Carnival, Honda Ody Absolute and ICE cars.   Eventually I took the leap of faith after coming across this forum and read about the reviews and understanding more about EV cars and the pros and cons.  I guess most of us who bought China EVs are prepared to lose alot due to the poor resale if we change our car early.  However, driving in SG has always been expensive even for ICE cars and if we do our sums and factor in the cost of owning of EV cars, and most of all if we can afford it, why not enjoy it?

[Lethalstrike]

On 2/25/2025 at 12:04 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

@Sindion 

Welcome to the China e-MPV club where dubious resale value (>50% drop expected after 1 year) and unsolicited ridicule (say no to China EVs, period) may await you.

When I did my shopping, the list was also narrowed down to the D9 and X9. My family actually preferred the X9 (especially the roof mounted BMW 7-series like screen, hidden air con outlets, and completely flat cargo area with 3rd rows electrically folded) but back in November, the car was not available for test drive and selling price unknown. I will be actively following the X9 though as MPV-dads won't be swapping their car for a sedan anytime soon, thus the next ride may be the X9! 

Is it possible to share the annual depreciation of the X9? 😅

I must say that for us China e-MPV owners, we are indeed courageous (or stupid to some) for spending $300k on an EV, and what's more, one that hails from China where the infamous Chery QQ is forever etched in most driver's psyche since the 2000s. But at least, we put our money where our mouth is. Thus, holding my breath to see how the eventual resale value pans out and at least comforted by the likes of you (and other D9/X9 owners here) who felt the same way that I did where we saw past the brand credentials, and was purely weighing the car on its own merits of value to quality. Been seeing more D9s and 009s on the road as well, waiting to see my 1st X9 on the road soon! 

Buy already don't think so much, just enjoy it. Also, don't bother to convince the naysayers otherwise. Put it in this way, for the same $$$ you spent on the D9, you will be hard pressed to find an ICE MPV equivalent which offers the same driving experience and refinement as the D9 as well. 

[Sindion]

Agreed on the concerns. Let's just say half a year ago, if someone told me I would buy a China EV, I would have told them to go fly kite...

I hesitated on buying a Chinese EV for the reasons you guys mentioned (yes won't forget Chery QQ lol), but not intending to change car for 10 years unless (touch wood) there are multiple repeated maintenance issues after the warranty ends, so I'm personally less concerned about resale value at this point. Haha fingers crossed and hoping things work out well!

Annual depreciation I was quoted was about $30K.

[benoit16]

On 2/25/2025 at 4:57 PM, Sindion said:

Agreed on the concerns. Let's just say half a year ago, if someone told me I would buy a China EV, I would have told them to go fly kite...

I hesitated on buying a Chinese EV for the reasons you guys mentioned (yes won't forget Chery QQ lol), but not intending to change car for 10 years unless (touch wood) there are multiple repeated maintenance issues after the warranty ends, so I'm personally less concerned about resale value at this point. Haha fingers crossed and hoping things work out well!

Annual depreciation I was quoted was about $30K.

that's after the estimated parf and about 325k pricing?

[Sindion]

Yup; parf $20-22K at end of 10 years estimated. I presume you were told more or less the same?

[benoit16]

On 2/25/2025 at 11:06 PM, Sindion said:

Yup; parf $20-22K at end of 10 years estimated. I presume you were told more or less the same?

yea similar hehe

[steveting99]

@Chipsahoy8919 Would like to check with you on the number of charge cycles (0% to 100%) that your D9 has gone through since putting your ride on the road? With the 103.4kWhr battery and the WLTP range on the D9 rated for 520km - based on your driving style, do you reckon that 520km on a full charge is achievable?

Are you doing around 20,000lm / year on the previous ride (Alphard) and will you do around the same distance per year on the D9?

[Llpl]

On 2/22/2025 at 1:26 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

While not a full BEV, this may be the final nail in the coffin for the venerable Toyota Alphard. No more range anxiety, better economy than a petrol-hybrid and hopefully, doesn't cost as much as the original kingmakers from Japan. 

In fact, if this had come earlier, I might get this over the D9 as when I watch the China reviewers of all the full-sized MPVs, this actually looks the best. When its launched, I will definitely pay a visit to the showroom and have a test drive! 

For more info on the specs we (likely) getting, please refer to this link (we are always 1 step behind HK, just like for the D9): https://www.gac-motor.com/en/media/newsdetail/id/356.html.

The GAC E9 will be cheaper than Denza D9. Estimated to be priced at $280K with COE and rebates 🫣

[Voodooman]

The premium Electric MPV to buy? The Zeekr 009 costs more than the Alphard and attracts crazy road tax here.  So really for rich towkays only.

With century sprint of 4.5s, it appears the air suspension helps to keep motion sickness away.

 

 

[Sbc55]

@Chipsahoy8919 youtube came out few days ago

[Annapurna]

@Voodooman Wow, just finished watching this video.  Very impressive MPV indeed.  

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 2/25/2025 at 4:44 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Buy already don't think so much, just enjoy it. Also, don't bother to convince the naysayers otherwise. Put it in this way, for the same $$$ you spent on the D9, you will be hard pressed to find an ICE MPV equivalent which offers the same driving experience and refinement as the D9 as well. 

@Lethalstrike Yes, definitely way past that stage of being concerned with others 'looking down' on my car. As an old man with kids and driving a MPV (the word MPV and face value shouldn't even coexist in the same sentence, if face value so important, must at least drive a conti sedan to me), I care less about the wind in your face when entering/exiting the car, dropping off passengers at lobbies or stopped at the lights, where face value comes into play as the man in the street steals glances at your ride. 

As it is, when we signed the papers and put down the money, already prepared to drive a full 10-years if the trade-in value is rubbish in 3 years time. That is why the 10-years battery warranty and maintenance from Denza sealed the deal for us as nothing to really worry about for this COE life cycle. 

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 2/27/2025 at 1:03 PM, steveting99 said:

@Chipsahoy8919 Would like to check with you on the number of charge cycles (0% to 100%) that your D9 has gone through since putting your ride on the road? With the 103.4kWhr battery and the WLTP range on the D9 rated for 520km - based on your driving style, do you reckon that 520km on a full charge is achievable?

Are you doing around 20,000lm / year on the previous ride (Alphard) and will you do around the same distance per year on the D9?

@steveting99  I have charged the D9 a total of 13 times now since taking delivery - all AC slow charges at 11kwh and 1 DC fast charge at 50kwh, and most of the times, I charged it fully to 100%. 

For the efficiency, I meticulously measure my consumption based on the same route and generally, from my layman calculations, usage of the AC will consume at least 10% of the range. Consumption is also affected by if you are gunning the car at every traffic light and weirdly enough, the car consumes more power in heavy downpour as compared to sunny weather. 

All-in-all, I would say 480km is super safe for the average driver to achieve. My cumulative consumption since Day 1 is at 19.9kwh/100km or 5km/kwh. Based on driving patterns in the past 3 years, definitely gonna hit at least 20k km/year and this was one of the motivations in getting an EV due to lower overall costs and EVs are the only boxes on wheels that 'rewards' you financially the more you drive!