Electric MPVs From China - Who is going to be the Alphard killer?

[Jev]

  On 12/4/2024 at 4:32 AM, Davidklt said:

I cant comment on behalf of the thread starter. But I think the more likely scenario is he needs to get rid of this car due to some time pressure eg. booked new car thinking he can sell his old car in time , changing family needs etc but simply no one wants to buy it. Hence, he chose to have the cash back based on paper value, either scrap or exported. This is how one can incur 50% loss in 1.5 years. 

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There's a price for everything and half this forum lining up to buy a 1.5 year old car at 50% discount...

[Terence2112]

  On 12/4/2024 at 9:37 AM, Jev said:

This should be interesting - someone trying to sell their 15 day old BYD M6 https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=1355069

 

Listed for same price as new (they already took 10k loss on the COE move)

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Maybe it’s BYD salesperson posing as a direct seller? 

[Freeder]

  On 12/4/2024 at 12:28 PM, Terence2112 said:

Maybe it’s BYD salesperson posing as a direct seller? 

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Most probably Demo car..

Or mebbe lemonade car🤭..

Or remorse buy…

 

[Freeder]

  On 12/4/2024 at 9:37 AM, Jev said:

This should be interesting - someone trying to sell their 15 day old BYD M6 https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=1355069

 

Listed for same price as new (they already took 10k loss on the COE move)

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Used car can get higher loan ..

Many stunts can be done to close deal🤭

[Mkl22]

  On 12/4/2024 at 1:14 PM, Freeder said:

Used car can get higher loan ..

Many stunts can be done to close deal🤭

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Yup exactly. The car trade lots of shady stuff. Buyer beware. Been proven so many times that a direct owner might not be really one. 
At least no rubbish story here. 
housewife seldom drive, elderly owner. Teacher car or whatever smlj they like to put. Take everything written with a pinch of salt. Even if it is untrue, they will say you sue limpeh lor. 🤣

[Sbc55]

@Sevenseven Tested the D9 from SG to KL...if you follow the speed limit, you should have ard 80 to 100km balance when you reach KL. Else must depend how fast you drive. Based on my guess, if you drive 140, likely you need to stop and charge for 10-20 mins. IMHO quite near to the stated range.

[Chipsahoy8919]

  On 1/3/2025 at 11:26 AM, Sbc55 said:

@Sevenseven Tested the D9 from SG to KL...if you follow the speed limit, you should have ard 80 to 100km balance when you reach KL. Else must depend how fast you drive. Based on my guess, if you drive 140, likely you need to stop and charge for 10-20 mins. IMHO quite near to the stated range.

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Thanks for bumping up this topic. 

From a few weeks of usage of the D9 locally, can surmise the following: 

1. Charging from 27% to 100% takes about 8 hours with a 11kwh AC charger which supplies between 8-9 kwh on average in reality. Unlike other makes (which recommend stopping at 80%), the BYD 'blade' batteries are able to charge to 100% every charge without affecting the battery lifespan (covered by the 10-years battery warranty as well). 

2. Total range of the D9 is safely in the range of 520km on a full charge. It displayed 537km of range after my first full charge. 

3. Fuel Energy consumption is at about 19+ kwh/100km, which equates to about at least 5km/kwh, which is better than Denza's claimed 4.46 km/kwh. But this performance could be attributed to the fact that the car is brand new. More 'long term' data collection is needed.  

4. The car is lovely to drive and be sat in with excellent NVH (again compared to the Alphard which has bargain basement sound proofing), and attracted quite a 'few stares' from passerby's when driving along the street or stopped at the lights. Probably, the novelty of a huge lumbering silent MPV takes some getting used to from the CVT drone of the quintessential king of MPV that is the Alphard. Afterall, the D9 had only been plying local roads since October 2024. 

5. The 360-deg cameras are really high resolution, and interestingly enough, it works even when you are driving up to speeds of 100km/hr. It really marks parking this barge a breeze in tight spaces. 

6. The voice commands of 'Hey Denza' actually works for straightforward instructions such as reduce air con fan speed/temperature, close the sunshades, turn on/off adjust ambient lighting and changing songs on your playlist. But it cannot tell you a joke. 

7. The fit and finish, interior trims, features and really the overall quality hands-down trashes the Alphard. It bewilders me why anymore would spend $100k more just to buy the 'Toyota' branding when you are really paying more for less, and this is coming from an ex-Alphard owner. Sure, the 3 main bugbears of EV ownership comes into play - a. Risk of fire - haven't come across any local BYDs on BBQ mode in the news, b. High insurance - true in some sense as mine costs double of the Alphard but it's a new car so hopefully the pricing will come down next renewal, and c. Poor resale value of 50% loss after 1-2 years of ownership - we will soon see in the next 2-3 years but I cannot fathom why any (or many) D9 owners would sell at such a steep loss especially if they can afford a $300k car in the first place. Range anxiety and ease of charging are real-world problems, though 500km of use would surely be enough for most folks locally and within that 1-week of use, it surely cannot be that challenging to locate a suitable charger to juice the D9 to 100%. 

8. I must say that I let off a cynical laugh when I drive past petrol stations nowadays, as I would never need to pay $ at one ever again and there is a perverted satisfaction whenever I need to brake the car (which is very often in city driving), slowing down at junctions due to red lights or just using the air con when the car is idling. Such actions would be consuming petrol in my ex-Alphard so there is really a paradigm shift of mindset when it comes to driving habits with an EV. 

Finally, as a new D9 owner, I am inclined to sing her praises but no cars are perfect thus these are my gripes: 

1. Alignment of the car was a bit off thus visiting the service center soon. 

2. There is a rattling sound at the driver's side seatbelt height adjustor area. The thing with EVs are once you hear it, you cannot 'un-hear' it as the car is dead quiet in motion so there is no escaping this though I must add that I am nitpicking on this as one would still need to strain to pick up the rattling.  To compound the issue, weirdly enough, I find it refreshing now (likely wearing off soon) to drive without music just to enjoy the serenity of the drive. 

3. With more practice of letting on/moderating the use of the accelerator pedal, one can technically achieve 1-pedal driving with the D9 until you need to come to a complete stop when you need to depress the brake pedal. However, when you let off the accelerator pedal and the car regenerates, the brake lights comes on and off during the process of slowing down, and the bloke behind you must be thinking he is driving behind a douche bag who is a serial 'braker'. 

6. For a company where 1 in 8 employees is engaged in R & D, it is quite criminal that the OTA updates are non-existent. For instance, you do not even get Lane Departure Warning/Assistance at this price point and no Android Auto as well. Local owners are severely short changed as when I watch Youtubers from China reviewing the D9, they can even do things like change the 'Hey Denza' to 'Hey Alphard' (for instance). I wonder what is the limiting factor that BYD/Denza refuses to let local D9 owners in on the game when our local population is well educated and tech savvy. 

7. When I bought an EV, I expect the in-car camera to be working 24/7 as it has a 100kwh power bank at it's disposal. To my dismay, there is no parked mode recording on the in-car camera (even if you offer to pay to install a backup battery for the in-car camera) as it may interfere with the car's electronics. What a load of BULL in this day and age when we are supposedly buying a technologically advanced car which fails at what I feel is an essential 'insurance policy' of car ownership. Needless to say, there is no sentry mode or remote drone view of the car. This is seriously very disappointing and hopefully, BYD can rectify this with an OTA as the 360 cameras are spectacular and it is a shame not to put them into active use. 

8. Coming from an Alphard, the interior of the D9 is actually more cramp. In the past with the Alphard, the middle row chairs can be slid all the way back and there is still space for the 3rd-row occupants. Thus, we end up using the space (> 50cm) between the B-pillar and the 2nd-row seats in tjhe Alphard as the cargo area to put bags and other stuff. In the D9, you need to shift the 2nd-row forward (becomes about 30cm of usable space between the B-pillar and 2nd-row seats but is impeded even further by the protruding fridge) to create more usable space for the back 2 rows of the car. Thus, one would end up using the boot more to store cargo in the D9 which is not the easiest to operate when most cars reverses into a lot against a wall or another car, and the D9 is >5.2 meters long, so you would need to stop the car midway when parking to open the boot, unload the cargo then reverse fully into the lot. 

So there you go, above are my honest review as a fairly new D9 owner. Any interested D9 buyers, feel free to continue poking around in this thread and I will do my best to give you my unfiltered opinion. For those deliberating between an Alphard or D9, I am more than happy to share with you my personal experiences between the 2, and which will work better for you. 

Cheers to all, and Happy 2025, safe drives everyone! 

 

Edited January 5 by Chipsahoy8919
Typo

[Sbc55]

I think the OTA will come pretty soon because HK owners are getting theirs from last week. Hopefully we can get it before cny.

[steveting99]

@Chipsahoy8919 Congrats on your new EV ride! 🤙I'm guessing you've got no regrets changing from ICE (Alphard) to EV (D9).

I'm waiting to see when BYD is going to offer the equivalent Ocean series of the Xia MPV (only available in China). The main difference is that Xia MPV is PHEV compared to the D9 being a straight BEV, so there's less to worry about range with the Xia MPV.  But will have to put up with hybrid engine when the battery runs out.

Jokingly, think the Xia MPV should be called the Whale One - if BYD ever decides to sell outside of China and in RHD version for the SEA market. 

[Chipsahoy8919]

  On 1/6/2025 at 9:14 AM, steveting99 said:

@Chipsahoy8919 Congrats on your new EV ride! 🤙I'm guessing you've got no regrets changing from ICE (Alphard) to EV (D9).

I'm waiting to see when BYD is going to offer the equivalent Ocean series of the Xia MPV (only available in China). The main difference is that Xia MPV is PHEV compared to the D9 being a straight BEV, so there's less to worry about range with the Xia MPV.  But will have to put up with hybrid engine when the battery runs out.

Jokingly, think the Xia MPV should be called the Whale One - if BYD ever decides to sell outside of China and in RHD version for the SEA market. 

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Hi Steve, yes, I am a 100% EV convert, no looking back now. In the MPV domain (both ICE and EV), I personally feel the D9 is the best bang for buck proposition with respect to it's price and quality. 

Interestingly, I was just watching a China Youtuber reviewing the BYD Xia earlier today and I was hoping the reviewer would compare the Xia and D9 (because they are essentially siblings wearing different clothes) but he didn't go there. In my opinion, the Xia and D9 is too close for comfort thus I would hazard a guess that BYD would not bring in the Xia locally as it would cannibalise it's own D9 sales, and I am pretty sure BYD wants to have the bragging rights that it trashed the Alphard in Singapore. Also, if I am not wrong, all local BYDs are pure EVs thus I also don't believe BYD Singapore would bring in a PHEV (for the Xia) all of a sudden as it is not in sync with its green automaker credentials (at least locally). 

But the Xia already gives a sneak preview into the next D9, which would have 3rd row seats that slides backwards (all the way to the boot ala the Alphard for maximum rear occupant comfort) as it is only able to adjust forward now, 3rd row seats that folds electrically and recess completely into the boot floor (ala the Xpeng X9), 3rd row electrically adjusted seats with ventilation, and roof mounted entertainment screen. 

With the Xia (and future new D9), I truly believe BYD has captured comprehensively what MPV buyers wants and needs, and has evidently and comfortably surpassed the OG masters of this segment (the Alphards/Vellfires).  

[Annapurna]

Hi,

I am going for a test drive of the Denza D9 this afternoon.   Denza is now having a CNY promo with 10 yrs battery warranty and free servicing.  Not sure whether this promo has always been there or just during CNY.

Is there anything I should lookout for?  Currently I am driving the Ody Absolute EX with COE ending this Aug.

Thank you.

Edited January 27 by Annapurna

[Chipsahoy8919]

  On 1/27/2025 at 3:04 AM, Annapurna said:

Hi,

I am going for a test drive of the Denza D9 this afternoon.   Denza is now having a CNY promo with 10 yrs battery warranty and free servicing.  Not sure whether this promo has always been there or just during CNY.

Is there anything I should lookout for?  Currently I am driving the Ody Absolute EX with COE ending this Aug.

Thank you.

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@Annapurna

The D9 had been having this 10 years battery and warranty since day 1. Thus, it is not a new promo. They would likely throw in the Blackvue in-car camera and tinted windows from 3M. The going price for the D9 (Elite) has been around $290k since its launch despite the ups/downs of the Cat B COE. 

If I am you, I would squeeze the SA for the battery pack for the in-car camera. I just installed mine at the service center to the tune of $500. It saves you not only the costs, but also the downtime of 2-3 hours visiting the service center (to protect the warranty, can only do so at the service center). 

The Odyssey is a wonderful car that I took up for a road trip up north and the D9 will definitely feel like the next level up. If your car is due for scrap soon, worthwhile to consider the shipment/delivery timeline of the car, as between the time I signed on the dotted line till I finally got the car (and mine was already expedited because I sold my car early on so I was bugging after the SA almost every other day) was at least 1.5 months.

So I reckon a 2 months timeline might be the norm. I read here that some contributors say that 'threat of no stock or long waiting times' are pressure tactics deployed by salesman from BYD/Denza so I must say that from personal experience, this is the real situation on the ground that a 2-months waiting time is to be expected (as compared to a family member who got their Lexus 2 weeks after signing on the dotted line). Furthermore, when I was at the service center, there were plenty of D9s awaiting collection so I must say that (again from first-hand experience) the D9 is making good inroads into the MPV segment so a long waiting time might be expected and you should factor this into your purchase. 

[Annapurna]

@Chipsahoy8919 

Just came back from Ubi after the test drive.  You are right, this MPV is going to kill Alphard. 

Compared to my Ody Absolute, my Absolute feels like a lower tier budget car.   No doubts about that.  The ride which we took from Ubi to Bedok and back to Ubi was so refined and extremely quiet even though we were driving along the PIE and it was raining.     The fit and finish for this car is as good as it gets as compared to cars like Mercs and BMW.   

The main concern I have is the height.  At 1.92m tall, it barely make it thru my hse MSCP when the SA drove the Denza thru the carpark next to my block where we have the slow charger on the 3rd level.  As some of the multistorey and basement carpark height is 1.9m, that may be an issue. 

Also I will be driving up North to Kluang and KL a few times a year to visit my relative, I am a little bit worried about the range.    I heard horror stories that chargers alot the NS highway are always occupied or not working.  

As for the freebies, on top of the standard one you mentioned, I requested for the battery pack for the Black-Vue camera.  However, he insisted battery pack may interfere with the electronics and they usually advise customers not to install it.  Not sure how true is that.  

Thanks

 

[inlinesix]

  On 1/27/2025 at 10:07 AM, Annapurna said:

@Chipsahoy8919 

Just came back from Ubi after the test drive.  You are right, this MPV is going to kill Alphard. 

Compared to my Ody Absolute, my Absolute feels like a lower tier budget car.   No doubts about that.  The ride which we took from Ubi to Bedok and back to Ubi was so refined and extremely quiet even though we were driving along the PIE and it was raining.     The fit and finish for this car is as good as it gets as compared to cars like Mercs and BMW.   

The main concern I have is the height.  At 1.92m tall, it barely make it thru my hse MSCP when the SA drove the Denza thru the carpark next to my block where we have the slow charger on the 3rd level.  As some of the multistorey and basement carpark height is 1.9m, that may be an issue. 

Also I will be driving up North to Kluang and KL a few times a year to visit my relative, I am a little bit worried about the range.    I heard horror stories that chargers alot the NS highway are always occupied or not working.  

As for the freebies, on top of the standard one you mentioned, I requested for the battery pack for the Black-Vue camera.  However, he insisted battery pack may interfere with the electronics and they usually advise customers not to install it.  Not sure how true is that.  

Thanks

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There is a Gentari charging station at Petronas Station in Ayer Hitam.

You can charge it before returning to Sg.

[Annapurna]

@Chipsahoy8919 Quote - "For instance, you do not even get Lane Departure Warning/Assistance at this price point and no Android Auto as well."  I asked the SA about this and he told me that the OTA updates will have this.  Are you getting Lane Departure Warning/Assistance?

 

[Annapurna]

@inlinesix Is the Petronas station at the junction just before NS highway?  Is this a fast charger?  Thanks.

[Sbc55]

I have been driving EV to KL many times since 2021 and thus far never encountered any problem with EV chargers along the highways. Today, you will find chargers in practically every RNR from SG to KL. 

With D9, if you follow the speed limit, chances are you can reach KL without charging. But I would suggest to charge along the highways before reaching KL so that no need to find a charger in KL.

Good luck with your new hunt for a new car. 

[Chipsahoy8919]

  On 1/27/2025 at 10:07 AM, Annapurna said:

@Chipsahoy8919 

Just came back from Ubi after the test drive.  You are right, this MPV is going to kill Alphard. 

Compared to my Ody Absolute, my Absolute feels like a lower tier budget car.   No doubts about that.  The ride which we took from Ubi to Bedok and back to Ubi was so refined and extremely quiet even though we were driving along the PIE and it was raining.     The fit and finish for this car is as good as it gets as compared to cars like Mercs and BMW.   

The main concern I have is the height.  At 1.92m tall, it barely make it thru my hse MSCP when the SA drove the Denza thru the carpark next to my block where we have the slow charger on the 3rd level.  As some of the multistorey and basement carpark height is 1.9m, that may be an issue. 

Also I will be driving up North to Kluang and KL a few times a year to visit my relative, I am a little bit worried about the range.    I heard horror stories that chargers alot the NS highway are always occupied or not working.  

As for the freebies, on top of the standard one you mentioned, I requested for the battery pack for the Black-Vue camera.  However, he insisted battery pack may interfere with the electronics and they usually advise customers not to install it.  Not sure how true is that.  

Thanks

 

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@Annapurna

Your SA is very nice, can drive all the way up PIE! 

The carpark height is a very real issue. I had the same concerns when I traded a sedan for the Alphard. During the test drive to my home carpark, I even asked the SA to poke his head through the sunroof to ensure it doesn't hit the ceiling of the carpark. However, this is one of the tradeoff of a full sized MPV and the infinite headroom it offers (what other car types allow children or adult with head slightly lowered to walk inside a car?)

So the important thing is to ensure that for the top 10 places you frequent on a weekly basis has at least a carpark height limit of 2.0 meters. There will be the odd chance you need to access an once in a blue moon carpark but trust you, you will build up a natural habit of checking the carpark height of places you haven't visited before. Again, the benefits outweighs the occasional inconvenience.

I haven't visited Msia in an EV yet thus cannot advise definitively on charging options. What I can advise first-hand though is that when I did my road trip to KL, there were chargers aplenty (and unoccupied) at the R & R along the NS highway and in the malls as well. If anything, it seems Msia might even have better charging infrastructure than us! 

The part on the battery pack interfering with the electronics is a load of BULL. I just installed mine at Sime Motors (other authorised dealer for Denza) and my warranty is intact but pocket lighter by $500. So, squeeze the SA for this! It is time Harmony up their game to provide even more value for D9 potential buyers instead of nonsensical technical explanations like this!