yishunite Turbocharged July 27 Share July 27 Surprise we havent got thread on this yet... Tommy Koh sounded alarm when deal first announce that Income Insurance gonna be bought by German finance company Allianz https://www.facebook.com/share/p/aKmg8ZUJvWoRqo6P/ Former NTUC Enterprise CEO Tan Suee Chieh also kpkb https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/ntuc-income-allianz-insurance-social-mission-profits-people-4506411 Quote It is my considered view that Singapore does not need more listed, profit-motivated companies in the financial services industry. We need a diversity of business models to create a more resilient society. We need more businesses focused on customer value rather than shareholder profits. Now stir stir the plot thicken lol https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ntuc-income-insurance-allianz-ronald-ong-morgan-stanley-conflict-interest-4506916 Quote Income says chairman recused himself from decision to appoint Morgan Stanley in Allianz deal Mr Ong, in addition to being chairman of Income, is also the chairman of Morgan Stanley's Southeast Asia business. He has worked for Morgan Stanley for over 20 years. "Morgan Stanley was appointed as Income Insurance’s financial advisor after a considered selection process," said Income on Saturday, in response to CNA's queries. Lol ownself recuse ownself to appoint ownself ↡ Advertisement 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrosszero Turbocharged July 27 Share July 27 Now it makes sense why NTUC, an organization, has been designated as a politically-significant person of interest: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ntuc-designated-as-a-politically-significant-person-under-foreign-interference-law Everything has a price? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 4:25 PM, macrosszero said: Now it makes sense why NTUC, an organization, has been designated as a politically-significant person of interest: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ntuc-designated-as-a-politically-significant-person-under-foreign-interference-law Everything has a price? How does it make sense? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atonchia Supersonic July 27 Share July 27 Actually insurance is all about pooling the risks. If cast a bigger net can lower the risks, meant less underwriting... So less cost equates to lower premium. That's provided Alliance business has better underwriting. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yishunite Turbocharged July 27 Author Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 7:10 PM, Atonchia said: Actually insurance is all about pooling the risks. If cast a bigger net can lower the risks, meant less underwriting... So less cost equates to lower premium. That's provided Alliance business has better underwriting. You are ignoring how they make profit. It is by taking risk that you can earn higher returns, thats how interest rate is priced, thats how u decide where to invest ppls premiums. Insurance isnt about premiums collection only 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 6:10 PM, Atonchia said: Actually insurance is all about pooling the risks. If cast a bigger net can lower the risks, meant less underwriting... So less cost equates to lower premium. That's provided Alliance business has better underwriting. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/to-grow-income-or-not-to-grow 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 7:21 PM, yishunite said: You are ignoring how they make profit. It is by taking risk that you can earn higher returns, thats how interest rate is priced, thats how u decide where to invest ppls premiums. Insurance isnt about premiums collection only Insurance company don't make higher returns from taking risk. U/w profit comes from both sound underwriting policy and risk are appropriately priced. A.k.a, don't take unnecessary high risk. That's general principle for GI. Life insurance is more complicated that this. Just like any other FI, don't forget solvency requirement. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yishunite Turbocharged July 27 Author Share July 27 (edited) On 7/27/2024 at 8:30 PM, inlinesix said: Insurance company don't make higher returns from taking risk. U/w profit comes from both sound underwriting policy and risk are appropriately priced. A.k.a, don't take unnecessary high risk. That's general principle for GI. Life insurance is more complicated that this. Just like any other FI, don't forget solvency requirement. I guess you never heard of AIG 🤣🤣 https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/what-happened-to-aig Edited July 27 by yishunite 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atonchia Supersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 8:21 PM, yishunite said: You are ignoring how they make profit. It is by taking risk that you can earn higher returns, thats how interest rate is priced, thats how u decide where to invest ppls premiums. Insurance isnt about premiums collection only Lending with the current higher interest rates probably helps insurer. I meant pooling of risk will lower payouts and may improve profits which in turn can provide better value on the insured. That's provided Alliance is stricter with their underwriting because they have a way larger pool of insured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipping Supersonic July 27 Share July 27 (edited) 🤑 Edited July 27 by zipping 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 7:46 PM, yishunite said: I guess you never heard of AIG 🤣🤣 https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/what-happened-to-aig How does Credit Rate Swap connected to underwriting? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 8:09 PM, Atonchia said: Lending with the current higher interest rates probably helps insurer. I meant pooling of risk will lower payouts and may improve profits which in turn can provide better value on the insured. That's provided Alliance is stricter with their underwriting because they have a way larger pool of insured. Allianz has a small presence in Singapore. What you said does not apply in Singapore context and for General Insurance only. When risk is ceded to Reinsurer (in this case, AZRE), the profit is moved offshore. That means locally, the operation may not be profitable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yishunite Turbocharged July 27 Author Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 11:15 PM, inlinesix said: How does Credit Rate Swap connected to underwriting? Correct term is credit DEFAULT swap. The point is the insurance company has to make financial decisions about investment. Its not about the underwriting part, its about the part where they decide where to put peoples premiums to earn money so they can offer value to customer. And with AIG famous case, they put it into a sector that had endless risk but their "assessment" was that there was zero risk. All returns involve risk, its literally how interest rates are derive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 10:23 PM, yishunite said: Correct term is credit DEFAULT swap. The point is the insurance company has to make financial decisions about investment. Its not about the underwriting part, its about the part where they decide where to put peoples premiums to earn money so they can offer value to customer. And with AIG famous case, they put it into a sector that had endless risk but their "assessment" was that there was zero risk. All returns involve risk, its literally how interest rates are derive You are absolutely wrong. U/w profit is the key to profitability. Insurer cannot run an operation with u/w losses year-on-year. That will worsen its solvency ratio. You probably don't understand how AIG collapse other than investing in risky business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soya Supersonic July 27 Share July 27 Heartland Aunty Lucy trying to wear sexy Munich dress 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yishunite Turbocharged July 27 Author Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 11:42 PM, inlinesix said: U/w profit is the key to profitability. Insurer cannot run an operation with u/w losses year-on-year. That will worsen its solvency ratio. Nobody was arguing against this point. Only you bring it up so u can talk to yourself. I actually wrote: Quote You are ignoring how they make profit. It is by taking risk that you can earn higher returns, thats how interest rate is priced, thats how u decide where to invest ppls premiums. Insurance isnt about premiums collection only 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atonchia Supersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 11:19 PM, inlinesix said: Allianz has a small presence in Singapore. What you said does not apply in Singapore context and for General Insurance only. When risk is ceded to Reinsurer (in this case, AZRE), the profit is moved offshore. That means locally, the operation may not be profitable. I know Allianz is not the key insurer in SG context, but I am not well verse in the company underwriting risks in SG or within the region. Not sure if underwriting is by market or by region. If by market likely they are the underdog in SG.... meaning the merger will not help Income.... Instead hinder better rates from Income.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic July 27 Share July 27 On 7/27/2024 at 11:08 PM, Atonchia said: I know Allianz is not the key insurer in SG context, but I am not well verse in the company underwriting risks in SG or within the region. Not sure if underwriting is by market or by region. If by market likely they are the underdog in SG.... meaning the merger will not help Income.... Instead hinder better rates from Income.... No insurer will underwrite by region. No forgetting that Income also has a large Life portfolio that will benefit from Az Asset Management. ↡ Advertisement 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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