Bread Van selection - Noah, Spada Stepwgn, Serena

[Kklee]

On 7/25/2024 at 9:37 AM, Lala81 said:

I don't really like how the toyota hybrids drive. 
my own preference is for the Honda eHEV system. I think the serena one is also acceptable. I'm not a high mileage user. Mostly short drives but repeated in northern sg.

There are no serenas and spada PHVs that I've seen (at least currently). Yeah I don't really want to be PHV driver.

SG whatever discounting doesn't really matter, cos everything is amplified by COE and ARF. 

 

IMHO.
Which was the latest model of Toyota Hybrid you drove ?  The 5th gen hybrids or before ?

[Jamesc]

Yes exactly.

Honda reliability is underrated and Toyota reliability is overrated.

On 7/25/2024 at 9:37 AM, Lala81 said:

I don't really like how the toyota hybrids drive. 
my own preference is for the Honda eHEV system. I think the serena one is also acceptable. I'm not a high mileage user. Mostly short drives but repeated in northern sg.

There are no serenas and spada PHVs that I've seen (at least currently). Yeah I don't really want to be PHV driver.

SG whatever discounting doesn't really matter, cos everything is amplified by COE and ARF. 

Anyway this thread is going to drag out into 2026/2027 even. I'm not in a rush. It's all a COE waiting game.

 

I believe the toyota advantage will emerge only mostly when you are going to exceed 250k km in your 10 years. 

My honda at 9.5 years (AC change) has underwent less repairs than my altis at 6.5 years(leaking shocks + AC change).

 

[Lala81]

On 7/25/2024 at 9:40 AM, Kklee said:

IMHO.
Which was the latest model of Toyota Hybrid you drove ?  The 5th gen hybrids or before ?

I drove a brand new camry hybrid 2.5 in victoria in 2019. 

Based on my sitting in PHVs. The characteristics are the same. 

No, not tried the Corolla Cross or the newest Prius. 

[Unltd]

@Lala81 

You can research hybrid and the drivetrain required so it is optimized, because at times it will run on electric and at times it will run on gas. For Toyota they will also run on a real combination (hybrid) with both electric and gas supplying power to the drivetrain. That is where the CVT comes about which Toyota is probably superior in.

Seems like you had already made up your mind and coming in to get validation, in that case just go for what you want. Because hearing different opinions usually does not help if you were already set on something, you will ignore or refute those against, and accept what validates your decision.

If many things are of no concern and you are already justifying your decision based on what you already prefer, then I say just go for it! All 3 of the cars have their own pros and cons, just take not bigger engine (cc) does not mean better drive, the drivetrain for hybrids is important.

If you are sure, get it, if you are not that sure, can consider spending some $$$, rent each for 1 week. FYI, all 3 are used for private hire.

[Karoon]

Bookmarking this thread. Kids getting too big for my normal mpv and getting less flexible crawling to the 3rd row. 

[inlinesix]

On 7/25/2024 at 10:11 AM, Unltd said:

@Lala81 

You can research hybrid and the drivetrain required so it is optimized, because at times it will run on electric and at times it will run on gas. For Toyota they will also run on a real combination (hybrid) with both electric and gas supplying power to the drivetrain. That is where the CVT comes about which Toyota is probably superior in.

Seems like you had already made up your mind and coming in to get validation, in that case just go for what you want. Because hearing different opinions usually does not help if you were already set on something, you will ignore or refute those against, and accept what validates your decision.

If many things are of no concern and you are already justifying your decision based on what you already prefer, then I say just go for it! All 3 of the cars have their own pros and cons, just take not bigger engine (cc) does not mean better drive, the drivetrain for hybrids is important.

If you are sure, get it, if you are not that sure, can consider spending some $$$, rent each for 1 week. FYI, all 3 are used for private hire.

All 3 are different hybrid system.

Nissan Serena: It is a RExBEV.  With small battery + no charging port, it is not ideal.

Toyota Voxy/Noah: It is a series/parallel hybrid.  The electric motor sits in the gearbox.  it is either electric or electric + ICE.  it still has a gearbox.  Toyota has system hp and torque.

Honda Stepwgn: it is a series/parallel hybrid.  Gearbox is replaced by 2 motors (there is no gearbox).  1 is a dynamo and another 1 is to move the car.  In low speed, it is pure EV.  The engine will switch on when battery charging status is low.  At highway speed, it is pure ICE.  Battery will be charged if it is low.  Since it is either EV or ICE, there is no system hp and torque.  With a much bigger motor, it is more ideal for our start-stop traffic.

[Lala81]

On 7/25/2024 at 10:11 AM, Unltd said:

@Lala81 

You can research hybrid and the drivetrain required so it is optimized, because at times it will run on electric and at times it will run on gas. For Toyota they will also run on a real combination (hybrid) with both electric and gas supplying power to the drivetrain. That is where the CVT comes about which Toyota is probably superior in.

Seems like you had already made up your mind and coming in to get validation, in that case just go for what you want. Because hearing different opinions usually does not help if you were already set on something, you will ignore or refute those against, and accept what validates your decision.

If many things are of no concern and you are already justifying your decision based on what you already prefer, then I say just go for it! All 3 of the cars have their own pros and cons, just take not bigger engine (cc) does not mean better drive, the drivetrain for hybrids is important.

If you are sure, get it, if you are not that sure, can consider spending some $$$, rent each for 1 week. FYI, all 3 are used for private hire.

There are no bad cars anymore in this day and age. Just pros and cons to each car. All the manufacturers have refined their cars. 

That's a good idea to lease and try out. No rush at all. Just tan gu gu.
 

[Kklee]

On 7/25/2024 at 10:10 AM, Lala81 said:

I drove a brand new camry hybrid 2.5 in victoria in 2019. 

Based on my sitting in PHVs. The characteristics are the same. 

No, not tried the Corolla Cross or the newest Prius. 

IMHO.
Should go try the 5th Gen hybrids.
Mine is the AD Corolla Cross Hybrid (TCCH) which is 5th gen,  so I wanted to find out from you what was the different because I never tried the earlier versions.
For the Noah, the lithium battery and motor seems to be the same as the TCCH.  One thing to note that if it is a 4.08ah  battery and the same as the TCCH, it is likely to be the  "exceptionally" small. 😆
The real concern would therefore be whether the 1.8L engine plus the small battery will make the car go out of breath.

[Genes]

On 7/24/2024 at 2:52 PM, Lala81 said:

As detailed in my previous post on the Electric cars thread. Looks like going to be bread van driver in coming years. 

Features, specs and trims can be easily found on websites.

Things can change as more PHEV models come into play. But given the focus on Crossovers and Alphard-sized competitors by the Chinese EV makers. I think this JDM category will be one of the last to get targeted.

Last night i spent some time looking for Japan crash ratings for the 3 above vehicles. All 3 should have the full suite of driver safety tech assistants.

Spada

 

Noah/Voxy

 

Serena

 

 

All 3 have 5 star japanese ratings. However i think if you look at the structural at the middle part of the vehicle, on the frontal and frontal overlap crash testing, the Toyota comes off best, maybe serena edges out Spada. 
For side collision, the Serena comes off best, followed by Noah. The Spada toppled over which is not good. 

 

Perhaps can just take a looksee at this.
https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/sg/en/pdf/Brochure/Brochure_Specs/CarnivalBrochureSpecsSheet_Mar2022.pdf

[Lala81]

On 7/25/2024 at 11:31 AM, Genes said:

Perhaps can just take a looksee at this.
https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/sg/en/pdf/Brochure/Brochure_Specs/CarnivalBrochureSpecsSheet_Mar2022.pdf

haha no need. This is full sized MPV. I'm sure the Carnival is a nice MPV. 

Out of my budget and my needs. We are family of 4. At most stretch to 6 pax if i bring out my parents/in laws. So no need too big, just small mini-van category which is the 3 japs and maybe the mifa 7 (EV) though i think that's still closer to alphard size compared to the japs.

[Tianmo]

On 7/25/2024 at 9:37 AM, Lala81 said:

I don't really like how the toyota hybrids drive. 
my own preference is for the Honda eHEV system. I think the serena one is also acceptable. I'm not a high mileage user. Mostly short drives but repeated in northern sg.

There are no serenas and spada PHVs that I've seen (at least currently). Yeah I don't really want to be PHV driver.

SG whatever discounting doesn't really matter, cos everything is amplified by COE and ARF. 

Anyway this thread is going to drag out into 2026/2027 even. I'm not in a rush. It's all a COE waiting game.

 

I believe the toyota advantage will emerge only mostly when you are going to exceed 250k km in your 10 years. 

My honda at 9.5 years (AC change) has underwent less repairs than my altis at 6.5 years(leaking shocks + AC change).

There are 3 Serenas in my MSCP now (one just added last week), and 1 spada,  none of them PHV, but KNN just this morning I saw 2 Serena PHVs at Gambas. 

There are a few Noah/Voxy in my MSCP, and I have seen endless on the road, until today I have not seen one that is not a PHV. That's one of the 2 main reasons I went back to a sedan instead, although I like it and my son love the captain seat.

 

 

 

[Tianmo]

On 7/25/2024 at 11:42 AM, Lala81 said:

haha no need. This is full sized MPV. I'm sure the Carnival is a nice MPV. 

Out of my budget and my needs. We are family of 4. At most stretch to 6 pax if i bring out my parents/in laws. So no need too big, just small mini-van category which is the 3 japs and maybe the mifa 7 (EV) though i think that's still closer to alphard size compared to the japs.

Mifa 7 is much smaller than alphard, the Mifa 9 is closer, actually a little bigger than alphard.

Mifa 7 is the same size as the Japanese 3, and it comes in 6 seats configuration if I am not wrong, which is perfect for me, but then it's an EV.

 

[jcmm]

On 7/24/2024 at 10:50 PM, Lala81 said:

5 seater can't bring parents out mah once the kids are older. 

Had this problem yrs ago... kids getting bigger and fighting for space while ferrying mum and sis. No matters how big a sedan or SUV, less X7, GLB, etc... there r only 3 seat belts in the rear. Decided to go for MPV n bought Serena. No complain, easy to drive and family sitting comfortably at the back. 

[Lala81]

On 7/25/2024 at 12:01 PM, Tianmo said:

Mifa 7 is much smaller than alphard, the Mifa 9 is closer, actually a little bigger than alphard.

Mifa 7 is the same size as the Japanese 3, and it comes in 6 seats configuration if I am not wrong, which is perfect for me, but then it's an EV.

 

you keep saying opposite your house got charging?

HDB rollout should be faster than mine for sure. My estate, even discussion of charging is only preliminary with no plans (previous one was thrown out as it involves placing the charging stations under 2nd floor units).

There's only 1 BEV the whole estate and that guy obviously charge at work.

 

[Lala81]

On 7/25/2024 at 11:56 AM, Tianmo said:

There are 3 Serenas in my MSCP now (one just added last week), and 1 spada,  none of them PHV, but KNN just this morning I saw 2 Serena PHVs at Gambas. 

There are a few Noah/Voxy in my MSCP, and I have seen endless on the road, until today I have not seen one that is not a PHV. That's one of the 2 main reasons I went back to a sedan instead, although I like it and my son love the captain seat.

with serena's and spada's fuel efficiency still not as good as toyota, PHV overwhelming should choose Toyota bah.

Their mileage so high. 

Your son above average height for singaporean male. bigger space sure more comfortable.

Even sit in B&B sedan as driver i also feel bit uncomfortable.

 

[Tianmo]

On 7/25/2024 at 12:30 PM, Lala81 said:

you keep saying opposite your house got charging?

HDB rollout should be faster than mine for sure. My estate, even discussion of charging is only preliminary with no plans (previous one was thrown out as it involves placing the charging stations under 2nd floor units).

There's only 1 BEV the whole estate and that guy obviously charge at work.

 

Yah, not only opposite my place, within 2km, I think 60-70% of HDB MSCPs have AC chargers. And within 1 km of where I stay and work, there are close to 10 DC chargers, so EV charging is not really a big issue for me, if I am willing to wait for the charge. 

I think that's the reason the BEV population in my estate is starting to grow. It started with 2 BYD e6 (PHV), then came 2 atto 3, now there are about 5-6 atto 3 in total. 1 new BYD seal, making it 2 now. One ora good cat added last month, and a new Tesla model 3 appeared 2 days ago. And all these with no charger in my MSCP, although news is they are coming soon, like 1st Q 2025. 

So Mifa7 really you know like sound quite suitable, provided we don't go on longer MY road trips, maybe turn ard day trips less than 200km in total. 

 

[Tianmo]

On 7/25/2024 at 12:39 PM, Lala81 said:

with serena's and spada's fuel efficiency still not as good as toyota, PHV overwhelming should choose Toyota bah.

Their mileage so high. 

Your son above average height for singaporean male. bigger space sure more comfortable.

Even sit in B&B sedan as driver i also feel bit uncomfortable.

 

Sometimes I wish they don't make a nice car too fuel efficient, so it won't become another PHV. If I ever get the Toyota Voxy (which is quite unlikely) first thing is to change the color to something very very different, a non PHV color.

My son is 1.77m raw height now, so with shoes, maybe about 1.79m, and bigger than avg.  My CN7 is quite low, and I can see that his head is already touching the ceiling, I think he might grow a little bit more and hit the ceiling.  He not complaining, but I also don't want him to seat too low, and I know he love those captain seats. 

 

Edited July 25 by Tianmo

[Lala81]

On 7/25/2024 at 1:04 PM, Tianmo said:

Yah, not only opposite my place, within 2km, I think 60-70% of HDB MSCPs have AC chargers. And within 1 km of where I stay and work, there are close to 10 DC chargers, so EV charging is not really a big issue for me, if I am willing to wait for the charge. 

I think that's the reason the BEV population in my estate is starting to grow. It started with 2 BYD e6 (PHV), then came 2 atto 3, now there are about 5-6 atto 3 in total. 1 new BYD seal, making it 2 now. One ora good cat added last month, and a new Tesla model 3 appeared 2 days ago. And all these with no charger in my MSCP, although news is they are coming soon, like 1st Q 2025. 

So Mifa7 really you know like sound quite suitable, provided we don't go on longer MY road trips, maybe turn ard day trips less than 200km in total. 

 

i was watching a malaysian video on discussion should i buy BEV or ICE. 

Tai choo yee and another malaysian automotive journalist/blogger said there's a lot of charging stations and bo lang on the NSH and the KL-east coast highway. 

So depends on how you charge as you travel bah.