Is it really cheaper to own an EV?

[ElectricYouth]

On 2/14/2022 at 4:59 PM, Johnmo89 said:

More problems:
-
5. Problems with the microclimate in the cabin. The air conditioner and stove are battery powered. By turning them on, you reduce the power reserve by another 20-25%. Partially, the problem can be solved by installing an autonomous heater running on gasoline or diesel fuel, but then an additional source of costs will appear.

Err… stove? 
Whether ev or petrol, still need aircon. Better to run it from a battery.

[D3badge]

This seeking alpha author lost a lot of money by short selling Tesla bah.....

https://seekingalpha.com/article/2501685-why-projections-for-tesla-to-sell-500000-cars-in-2020-are-absurd?external=true&gclid=Cj0KCQiAu62QBhC7ARIsALXijXRSDq3p2hSeBsObqfButKbqIKudkCNG7cxz93kC1yAwYushU4qns98aAk0rEALw_wcB&utm_campaign=14823831578&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_term=128719140158^dsa-1427141793820^^549166468495^^^g

2021 Tesla almost 1 million sales 

https://www.dw.com/en/tesla-posts-sales-of-almost-1-million-cars-in-2021/a-60313972#:~:text=The electric carmaker sold 936%2C000,87% from its 2020 sales.&text=Electric carmaker Tesla said on,87% from its 2020 figures.

[D3badge]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/business/tesla-earnings.html

Tesla rise in profit but supply chain might cockblock Elon musk

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/31/investing/tesla-profitability/index.html

but then Tesla profit revenue also come from carbon credit eg. alfa romeo buy credit from tesla and bitcoin elon musk tweets, public buy then tesla sell LOL

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/22594778/tesla-q2-2021-earnings-revenue-profit-credits-emissions-bitcoin

Edited February 15, 2022 by D3badge

[Throttle2]

Nope, the whole concept of EVs being cheap to run, efficient and cost saving, doesnt work in Singapore.

we have a unique situation which goes against all these.   
 

continue dreaming guys. ……

 

[inlinesix]

Tesla Model 3 is cheaper to run than Merc C180 and BMW 318.

In addition, it is the cheapest 300hp in the market 

[Freeder]

9 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Tesla Model 3 is cheaper to run than Merc C180 and BMW 318.

In addition, it is the cheapest 300hp in the market 

https://shopee.sg/product/165871285/6541464080?smtt=0.44986337-1644979112.9
 

This one more cheaperer..

[inlinesix]

2 minutes ago, Freeder said:

https://shopee.sg/product/165871285/6541464080?smtt=0.44986337-1644979112.9
 

This one more cheaperer..

You can sit meh?
For adults, you have to buy https://ninebot.com.sg/go-kart/

[Johnmo89]

14 hours ago, ElectricYouth said:

Err… stove? 
Whether ev or petrol, still need aircon. Better to run it from a battery.

How is it better. As I said you reduce the power reserve by another 20-25% by turning them on (sorry stove I mean heater...). On luxury electric cars like Tesla maybe a bit less. Of course you can buy portable heater and aircon but they will not give the same efficiency as stock ones.

[Stratovarius]

35 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Tesla Model 3 is cheaper to run than Merc C180 and BMW 318.

In addition, it is the cheapest 300hp in the market 

Ya. quite tempted to try tesla even though i hate the design. But my mileage is very low now and it will be more expensive to run the tesla as the difference in roadtax will be more than my petrol cost. if buy tesla must drive everyday. 😂

[inlinesix]

12 minutes ago, Stratovarius said:

Ya. quite tempted to try tesla even though i hate the design. But my mileage is very low now and it will be more expensive to run the tesla as the difference in roadtax will be more than my petrol cost. if buy tesla must drive everyday. 😂

It depends on what car you are comparing to

The gap could be closer now with rising petrol cost.

I copy carbon82 calculation.  Depreciation + Road Tax + Fuel Cost

Tesla Model 3 (with DC charger) is cheaper than BMW 318 (with RON95) by 8.5k over 10 years.  This is for annual mileage of 5k KM.

 

[Voodooman]

On 2/14/2022 at 4:55 PM, Johnmo89 said:

"The world will not switch to electric vehicles, and here's why:
Obstacle #1: Humanity will run out of raw materials
Electric vehicles are unthinkable without batteries. It is batteries that accumulate electricity in themselves, and a chemical reaction resulting from the interaction of several chemical elements is responsible for the charge / discharge cycles. The most common are lithium, cobalt, manganese and neodymium. Without them, you can’t assemble a battery, which means an electric car.
Obstacle #2: Electric Vehicles Don't Have a Viable Business Model
If you look at the financial statements of electric car start-ups, the common feature that catches your eye is huge losses. Every quarter, companies like Nikola or Rivian burn millions of dollars in an attempt to create a quality electric car. Result? Constant postponements and the actual lack of cars for sale. In fact, companies are eating away investments received from business angels and ordinary investors, each time promising a result and postponing the date of its achievement. If you look at giants like GM, Mercedes-Benz or Fiat Chrysler, then not everything is good here either. Such manufacturers cover the unprofitability of their electrical projects with income from the sale of conventional cars with internal combustion engines. But if the world really goes all-electric and moves away from gasoline and diesel, the profits from ICE cars will also disappear. And the automakers will be left with unprofitable projects that drag the business to the bottom.
Obstacle #3: Entire states will resist
The media loves to write about state support measures for electric cars. Opposite steps are written less often - but this does not mean that all countries support electrification. There are states for which such a transition is economically disadvantageous. And recently, such countries are increasingly letting you know about it. And they begin to carefully limit the takeoff of electric cars.
Obstacle #4: Ditching ICE Cars Will Drive Prices and Electricity Shortages
According to a study by BloombergNEF (https://about.bnef.com/), the ubiquity of electric vehicles will lead to an increase in electricity consumption around the world by 6.8% by 2040. Judging by other studies, BloombergNEF gave a conservative forecast, which implies that the transition to electric traction is not too fast. Already familiar to us, Professor Herrington from the Natural History Museum in London calculated that the electrification of all passenger cars in the UK by 2050 will increase electricity consumption in the country by 20%.
Obstacle #5: Electric vehicles are horrendously polluting the planet
Approximately 38% of all electricity in the world is generated by burning coal. Coal mining is one of the dirtiest processes of human life. For the sake of coal mining, forests are massively cut down, and in the process of extraction, toxins are released that poison miners and nearby residents. Even if you do not take into account the method of obtaining electricity, many questions arise for the batteries themselves - whether they are nickel-cadmium or lithium-ion batteries. All the same extraction of cadmium and lithium not only kills animals that are not lucky enough to be nearby, but also pollutes groundwater, and also leads to desertification."

The production of petrol/ diesel from oil, which requires electricity itself, and the burning of these fuel products in billions of small combustion engines around the world daily (with very low efficiency) will also produce pollutants and lead to global warming. We are burning carbon based fossil fuels, same like coal.

A few power plants (vs your 1.6L engine) using mixture of gas, oil, coal and even hydro to generate electricity and running at much higher efficiency is more polluting? 

I don't know the answer to above question. 

Just sharing something i read earlier. It looks at both sides of the coin.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

[Johnmo89]

@Voodooman 

15 hours ago, Voodooman said:

The production of petrol/ diesel from oil, which requires electricity itself, and the burning of these fuel products in billions of small combustion engines around the world daily (with very low efficiency) will also produce pollutants and lead to global warming. We are burning carbon based fossil fuels, same like coal.

A few power plants (vs your 1.6L engine) using mixture of gas, oil, coal and even hydro to generate electricity and running at much higher efficiency is more polluting? 

I don't know the answer to above question. 

Just sharing something i read earlier. It looks at both sides of the coin.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

That's right, oil refining requires a huge amount of energy. BUT. Even in the event of a complete rejection of internal combustion engines and gasoline, oil will still be processed. Plastic, paint, rocket fuel, fuel oil, some detergents, and so on... So the air pollution will continue. And now add to this also the issues in the production of batteries. It turns out to be a very bad situation. Moreover, modern internal combustion engines have very low emissions of harmful substances (I'm not saying that they don't exist at all, but you can still live with such indicators). And don"t forget about the recycling of used batteries, which also requires considerable energy costs, and in turn, emissions into the atmosphere. But (I emphasize BUT) it doesn't mean that we shouldn't look for a replacement for gasoline. I just think that electric motors are a dead end option.

[Stratovarius]

23 hours ago, inlinesix said:

It depends on what car you are comparing to

The gap could be closer now with rising petrol cost.

I copy carbon82 calculation.  Depreciation + Road Tax + Fuel Cost

Tesla Model 3 (with DC charger) is cheaper than BMW 318 (with RON95) by 8.5k over 10 years.  This is for annual mileage of 5k KM.

 

For my case, i can charge for free (company's charging point and thus, toying the idea of an EV) but my mileage for now is less than 50k for 5 years. it will only make more financial sense if i were to drive to work everyday. right now for my forester, seems that fuel + road tax is slightly lower than Tesla's yearly road tax. reliability and maintenance aside, it seems that Tesla makes more sense. 

[kobayashiGT]

7 minutes ago, Stratovarius said:

For my case, i can charge for free (company's charging point and thus, toying the idea of an EV) but my mileage for now is less than 50k for 5 years. it will only make more financial sense if i were to drive to work everyday. right now for my forester, seems that fuel + road tax is slightly lower than Tesla's yearly road tax. reliability and maintenance aside, it seems that Tesla makes more sense. 

buying a car is never logical one. 😂

you will always think of ways to validate your purchase even thou it doesn't make sense. hahahahaha.

[Voodooman]

39 minutes ago, Johnmo89 said:

@Voodooman 

That's right, oil refining requires a huge amount of energy. BUT. Even in the event of a complete rejection of internal combustion engines and gasoline, oil will still be processed. Plastic, paint, rocket fuel, fuel oil, some detergents, and so on... So the air pollution will continue. And now add to this also the issues in the production of batteries. It turns out to be a very bad situation. Moreover, modern internal combustion engines have very low emissions of harmful substances (I'm not saying that they don't exist at all, but you can still live with such indicators). And don"t forget about the recycling of used batteries, which also requires considerable energy costs, and in turn, emissions into the atmosphere. But (I emphasize BUT) it doesn't mean that we shouldn't look for a replacement for gasoline. I just think that electric motors are a dead end option.

The battery argument is still being debated but I just don't believe billions of small ICE in cars, burning petrol and diesel, is contributing less to global warming than big ass highly efficient power plants. The efficiency between the 2 is significant.

[Kklim]

Drivers hoot over EV charger access! 
https://thedriven.io/2022/02/08/ev-charger-wars-anger-and-death-threats-as-frustrated-owners-unplug-electric-cars/

[Stratovarius]

42 minutes ago, kobayashiGT said:

buying a car is never logical one. 😂

you will always think of ways to validate your purchase even thou it doesn't make sense. hahahahaha.

This is called the kar chng jio syndrome.

[Throttle2]

1 hour ago, Kklim said:

Drivers hoot over EV charger access! 
https://thedriven.io/2022/02/08/ev-charger-wars-anger-and-death-threats-as-frustrated-owners-unplug-electric-cars/

Expected social issues

more to come