Is it really cheaper to own an EV?

[therock]

 Tesla should have an auto clamp function.. I'm sure there is enough sophistry in their cars to recognise when a foreign car is in their lots..

[D3badge]

On 1/3/2022 at 4:13 PM, therock said:

Is a true EV better value than a hybrid?

especially for low mileage drivers?

hybrid better than because your milage is so low, you can always drive on Electric most of the time yet your electric is self-charging!! best of the both world!!

[alphapunk2]

18 hours ago, Soya said:

Woohoo.....show started liao 

 

 

Can carpark staff clamp the wheel of ICE cars parked in lots for PHEV/EV cars?

[inlinesix]

10 minutes ago, alphapunk2 said:

Can carpark staff clamp the wheel of ICE cars parked in lots for PHEV/EV cars?

I think Tesla owner can contact Tesla to ask property owner to deal with it.

[therock]

15 hours ago, D3badge said:

hybrid better than because your milage is so low, you can always drive on Electric most of the time yet your electric is self-charging!! best of the both world!!

Batteries cost $$ to replace 

I’m sticking with petroleum for now..

[inlinesix]

4 minutes ago, therock said:

Batteries cost $$ to replace 

I’m sticking with petroleum for now..

If your mileage is like carbon or tohto.

Most users on this island will not face this problem.

[D3badge]

50 minutes ago, therock said:

Batteries cost $$ to replace 

I’m sticking with petroleum for now..

Lexus hybrid warranty their batteries for 10 years!! Cover full COE period 😁

Edited February 2, 2022 by D3badge

[inlinesix]

A lot of EV has 5% buffer build into the battery.

For e.g. Ioniq 5 Long Range battery is 72.6kwh.  Usable capacity is 70kwh.

For most ppl, you will not detect the difference.

Moreover, if use fast charge, most ppl will stop at 80%.  From 80% to 100% is turtle slow.

[1fast1]

On 1/5/2022 at 5:39 PM, L23 said:

You hit the G-spot !

If the govt want to make EV works, give out free COE for EV cars and ensure the charging station is easily available islandwide with FOC charging. 

Those half-baked measures are just simply painting SG as a Green country in Global map.  

 

Not half-baked. Just calculated wayang. Just like our politics paints SG as a "democracy" on the global map. Those inside know better.

[inlinesix]

11 minutes ago, Turboflat4 said:

Not half-baked. Just calculated wayang. Just like our politics paints SG as a "democracy" on the global map. Those inside know better.

It is better no effort in building of charging station.

By the time, traditional carmaker stop making ICE, we might need to use bicycle.

[DOBIEMKZ]

3 hours ago, inlinesix said:

A lot of EV has 5% buffer build into the battery.

For e.g. Ioniq 5 Long Range battery is 72.6kwh.  Usable capacity is 70kwh.

For most ppl, you will not detect the difference.

Moreover, if use fast charge, most ppl will stop at 80%.  From 80% to 100% is turtle slow.

Snail slow. CCS charging is like 5 mins for 1 percent when over 80 percent. 🥱😴😴

[macrosszero]

5 hours ago, alphapunk2 said:

Can carpark staff clamp the wheel of ICE cars parked in lots for PHEV/EV cars?

Easier to make an automated barrier drop only when an EV arrives at the lot

[Johnmo89]

"The world will not switch to electric vehicles, and here's why:
Obstacle #1: Humanity will run out of raw materials
Electric vehicles are unthinkable without batteries. It is batteries that accumulate electricity in themselves, and a chemical reaction resulting from the interaction of several chemical elements is responsible for the charge / discharge cycles. The most common are lithium, cobalt, manganese and neodymium. Without them, you can’t assemble a battery, which means an electric car.
Obstacle #2: Electric Vehicles Don't Have a Viable Business Model
If you look at the financial statements of electric car start-ups, the common feature that catches your eye is huge losses. Every quarter, companies like Nikola or Rivian burn millions of dollars in an attempt to create a quality electric car. Result? Constant postponements and the actual lack of cars for sale. In fact, companies are eating away investments received from business angels and ordinary investors, each time promising a result and postponing the date of its achievement. If you look at giants like GM, Mercedes-Benz or Fiat Chrysler, then not everything is good here either. Such manufacturers cover the unprofitability of their electrical projects with income from the sale of conventional cars with internal combustion engines. But if the world really goes all-electric and moves away from gasoline and diesel, the profits from ICE cars will also disappear. And the automakers will be left with unprofitable projects that drag the business to the bottom.
Obstacle #3: Entire states will resist
The media loves to write about state support measures for electric cars. Opposite steps are written less often - but this does not mean that all countries support electrification. There are states for which such a transition is economically disadvantageous. And recently, such countries are increasingly letting you know about it. And they begin to carefully limit the takeoff of electric cars.
Obstacle #4: Ditching ICE Cars Will Drive Prices and Electricity Shortages
According to a study by BloombergNEF (https://about.bnef.com/), the ubiquity of electric vehicles will lead to an increase in electricity consumption around the world by 6.8% by 2040. Judging by other studies, BloombergNEF gave a conservative forecast, which implies that the transition to electric traction is not too fast. Already familiar to us, Professor Herrington from the Natural History Museum in London calculated that the electrification of all passenger cars in the UK by 2050 will increase electricity consumption in the country by 20%.
Obstacle #5: Electric vehicles are horrendously polluting the planet
Approximately 38% of all electricity in the world is generated by burning coal. Coal mining is one of the dirtiest processes of human life. For the sake of coal mining, forests are massively cut down, and in the process of extraction, toxins are released that poison miners and nearby residents. Even if you do not take into account the method of obtaining electricity, many questions arise for the batteries themselves - whether they are nickel-cadmium or lithium-ion batteries. All the same extraction of cadmium and lithium not only kills animals that are not lucky enough to be nearby, but also pollutes groundwater, and also leads to desertification."

[Johnmo89]

More problems:
1. Lack of charging stations. For comfortable electric car using mostly just large cities are suitable. In most cases, electric vehicles have to be charged from your own outlet in the house or apartment. And it is very long and not convenient.
2. Distance range. Models costing $ 45,000 - up to 200-250 kilometers. Budget electric cars have about 100–120 kilometers. Because of this, they can only be used in the city. Premium electric vehicles are devoid of such shortcomings - the Tesla Model S and Jaguar F-Pace travel more than 500 km on a single charge. But their price is not available for everyone.
3. Cost of the car and its maintenance. About prices of the cars I've told already (about 2 times more that petrol car of same class). Now about maintance. For example, in Germany, the repair of electric vehicles is more expensive - by about 30% in the event of a car collision, and the repair of plug-in hybrids is the most expensive. Therefore, "casco" policies cost a little more than insurance for cars with internal combustion engines. The higher price of repair is not only due to the design features of electric vehicles (for example, the battery, a key element of such vehicles, requires enhanced protection in case of an accident), but also to specific safety standards and manufacturer requirements. Some of them, for example, insist on replacing the battery in case the airbag has been deployed. This costly operation can make repairing a damaged machine economically pointless.
4. Sensitivity to air temperature. The practice shows that at 5°, battery capacity is reduced by 20%, at -5° - by 35-40%, and at -12° - by 50%
www.greencars.com/post/how-cold-weather-affects-el...s
5. Problems with the microclimate in the cabin. The air conditioner and stove are battery powered. By turning them on, you reduce the power reserve by another 20-25%. Partially, the problem can be solved by installing an autonomous heater running on gasoline or diesel fuel, but then an additional source of costs will appear.

[kobayashiGT]

16 minutes ago, Johnmo89 said:

"The world will not switch to electric vehicles, and here's why:
Obstacle #1: Humanity will run out of raw materials
Electric vehicles are unthinkable without batteries. It is batteries that accumulate electricity in themselves, and a chemical reaction resulting from the interaction of several chemical elements is responsible for the charge / discharge cycles. The most common are lithium, cobalt, manganese and neodymium. Without them, you can’t assemble a battery, which means an electric car.
Obstacle #2: Electric Vehicles Don't Have a Viable Business Model
If you look at the financial statements of electric car start-ups, the common feature that catches your eye is huge losses. Every quarter, companies like Nikola or Rivian burn millions of dollars in an attempt to create a quality electric car. Result? Constant postponements and the actual lack of cars for sale. In fact, companies are eating away investments received from business angels and ordinary investors, each time promising a result and postponing the date of its achievement. If you look at giants like GM, Mercedes-Benz or Fiat Chrysler, then not everything is good here either. Such manufacturers cover the unprofitability of their electrical projects with income from the sale of conventional cars with internal combustion engines. But if the world really goes all-electric and moves away from gasoline and diesel, the profits from ICE cars will also disappear. And the automakers will be left with unprofitable projects that drag the business to the bottom.
Obstacle #3: Entire states will resist
The media loves to write about state support measures for electric cars. Opposite steps are written less often - but this does not mean that all countries support electrification. There are states for which such a transition is economically disadvantageous. And recently, such countries are increasingly letting you know about it. And they begin to carefully limit the takeoff of electric cars.
Obstacle #4: Ditching ICE Cars Will Drive Prices and Electricity Shortages
According to a study by BloombergNEF (https://about.bnef.com/), the ubiquity of electric vehicles will lead to an increase in electricity consumption around the world by 6.8% by 2040. Judging by other studies, BloombergNEF gave a conservative forecast, which implies that the transition to electric traction is not too fast. Already familiar to us, Professor Herrington from the Natural History Museum in London calculated that the electrification of all passenger cars in the UK by 2050 will increase electricity consumption in the country by 20%.
Obstacle #5: Electric vehicles are horrendously polluting the planet
Approximately 38% of all electricity in the world is generated by burning coal. Coal mining is one of the dirtiest processes of human life. For the sake of coal mining, forests are massively cut down, and in the process of extraction, toxins are released that poison miners and nearby residents. Even if you do not take into account the method of obtaining electricity, many questions arise for the batteries themselves - whether they are nickel-cadmium or lithium-ion batteries. All the same extraction of cadmium and lithium not only kills animals that are not lucky enough to be nearby, but also pollutes groundwater, and also leads to desertification."

Is there a TL;DR summary? 😄

[Johnmo89]

@kobayashiGT I will try short😄

Electric motors will never catch on because: 1. There simply isn't enough lithium and cobalt in the world to make batteries, 2. Electric vehicles don't have a viable sales model. In other words, they are simply unprofitable to produce and sell. 3. Countries for which trade in gas and oil is the main source of income will simply not give a chance for development. 4. Due to the transition to electric vehicles, electricity consumption will increase dramatically, which will lead to a crisis. 5. In the production of batteries, the amount of harmful emissions into the atmosphere is several times higher than their amount from cars with internal combustion engines.

Just wanted to include all details🙂

[kobayashiGT]

21 hours ago, Johnmo89 said:

@kobayashiGT I will try short😄

Electric motors will never catch on because: 1. There simply isn't enough lithium and cobalt in the world to make batteries, 2. Electric vehicles don't have a viable sales model. In other words, they are simply unprofitable to produce and sell. 3. Countries for which trade in gas and oil is the main source of income will simply not give a chance for development. 4. Due to the transition to electric vehicles, electricity consumption will increase dramatically, which will lead to a crisis. 5. In the production of batteries, the amount of harmful emissions into the atmosphere is several times higher than their amount from cars with internal combustion engines.

Just wanted to include all details🙂

Huh.... But last time my dream is to own GTR leh. Now I dream of owning tesla. 😂 3 sec for 0-100km. hahahahahah.

Can work lah. if they do a special COE for electric car. Just slowly slowly grow the numbers lor. The infrastutre must keep up also.

For raw material, yeah. it is not finite one, but these day the scientist siao one. everything also can synthetic one. hahaha, so you never know if there is synthetic cobalt and lithium coming out.

For electricity concumption yes. Our exisiting building are not made to withstand all the fast charging at one go in one building. so yah.

Okay lah. I wanna renew one more time for my existing car. ICE all the way!!!!!! 😂

 

 

 

 

popi popi the fuel price don't go up anymore le. if not I might pour cooking oil inside my car liao. popi popi...

[Alternapkin]

I stay in HDB and currently drive a BYD e6. It's pretty convenient. It's really a mindset shift vs owning petrol vehicles.

Normally for petrol car you'll go petrol station only when reach 2 bar/1bar, but for ev you'll just need to work out some common destinations with chargers (there are a lot of them) and you don't even need a "dedicated" trip to a petrol station. 

My regular use weekly go ntuc + some malls on weekends jewel/Vivo/orchard etc, haven't gone below 30% charge. Makan, walk walk abit easily 100%. Only thing is must remember to pump air from time to time.

Plus, it has alot of fringe benefits like having the AC on without any vibration or "guilty" feeling, just like ur own mini aircon room. I wait for my wife 1hr+ blasting music will not even drop 1%.

You also get a kinda peace of mind knowing the vehicle is mechanically simple. It's very hard for an ev to "go wrong". A typical ev has less than 20 moving parts vs a conventional ice vehicle which has more than 2000. 

To address some misconceptions in johnmo's post:

1. The most battery chemistries are already cobalt free. LFP are already prevalent and sodium ion batteries are being trialled.

2. Teslas have the highest margins per car >30%. EVs are extremely profitable. Demand far outstrips supply globally. Waiting lists of 1+years for some models. They can't make them fast enough.

3. Norway which has oil and gas as their primary export has more than 90% pev marketshare, bev is more than 70%.

4. Electric power is provisioned for peak usage. Most EV charging are during off peak hours which do not affect the grid as much. Furthermore with VTG integration upcoming, it will further benefit/stabilise grid supply.

5. This is a common myth. As long as the ev is driven more than 13,500km, it will be more environmentally friendly vs petrol cars. Petrol cars are incredibly polluting over its lifetime, not to mention the petroleum intrastructure to drill, transport, refine and transport again to reach the petrol station in the first place.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Alternapkin