Is it really cheaper to own an EV?

[Voodooman]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:06 AM, inlinesix said:

If 1 didn’t pay for the rebate, it is non-issue.

Just do the maths and calculate depreciation after taking into account the rebate. 

i googled sub 4/5/6s ICE cars, their depreciation is much higher. At the end, it is the value you get for the car you want that matters. 

Of course the century sprint is not the only consideration but EV handling is generally ok for me, planted and responsive. 

[inlinesix]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:01 PM, Voodooman said:

Just do the maths and calculate depreciation after taking into account the rebate. 

i googled sub 4/5/6s ICE cars, their depreciation is much higher. At the end, it is the value you get for the car you want that matters. 

Of course the century sprint is not the only consideration but EV handling is generally ok for me, planted and responsive. 

If 1 care about rebate, don’t bother to buy car.

Consumers confirm tio Macan.

Sub-4s car could be BYD Seal cheapest in term of depreciation.

[RadX]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:06 PM, inlinesix said:

If 1 care about rebate, don’t bother to buy car.

Consumers confirm tio Macan.

Sub-4s car could be BYD Seal cheapest in term of depreciation.

Eh cb la

 

we have defender of the Ev

 

 Now u ccb defender of lta rebate… dafug🪦😂

[inlinesix]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:08 PM, RadX said:

Eh cb la

 

we have defender of the Ev

 

 Now u ccb defender of lta rebate… dafug🪦😂

I don’t defend LTA rebate.

I say F rebate.

This is MCF le.

Soya & Vratenza complain the loudest on this.

[RadX]

@Soya oni want cheap coe

[inlinesix]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:12 PM, RadX said:

@Soya oni want cheap coe

Wait for Mr Tan🤭

[Voodooman]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:10 PM, inlinesix said:

I don’t defend LTA rebate.

I say F rebate.

This is MCF le.

Soya & Vratenza complain the loudest on this.

AD needs to make certain margin, if no rebate, EV prices here will be even higher. Hope Chinese EV will move on to a direct sales model, like in China.  Competition will put some of these legacy auto AD out of business sooner. 

i not defending greedy LTA, want EV transition but don’t want to give better financial incentives. 

[Beregond]

Lta want sg driver to change to EV.

I think judging from recent events and news, there is no looking back for SG on this, despite maybe a cool down from the west.

But at the same time while Sg driver are changing to EV, LTA is making sure their income from ownership of cars be it ICE or EV is not going to be effected or reduce, it does not matter 1 single bit if its greener or not greener. 

We can bet on this😂

[Kklee]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:55 PM, Voodooman said:

Claimed FC of Toyota Cross Hybrid on its 43L tank is 1,100km but 1000km per tank is very decent and really fuel sipping.

Charging infrastructure aside, based on my back of envelope calculation, a Tesla 3 is however still cheaper to run if you exclude the additional road tax (maybe $1k more?) but I will take the 6s Tesla 3 over the Toyota anytime, the drive is a lot nicer. They are in the same price point of $200k, I think. 
 

IMHO.
Claimed WTLP is 18.8km/L which translate to 808.4 km for the 43L fuel tank.  
Based on the WLTP, this hybrid is actually not fuel economical because it is below 20. 🤣
EV will always be cheaper to run at the expense of charging infrastructure.  
Between EV, my Hybrid and my ex-ICE,  the cost per km should be around (cents) 7-8, 10-11 and 20-21.
There should be none at my home location but there are a few at my office location.
Unfortunate that they are outdoors.
Probably a lame plus point now is that when I leave the house and come back at the end of the day,  it is sheltered all the way. 🤣
Another probably lame plus point is in-between pump is about 12-13 days. 🤣

EH... 6s is fast but my 7.7s quite ok - faster than quite a few. 🤣

[Voodooman]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:32 PM, Kklee said:

IMHO.
Claimed WTLP is 18.8km/L which translate to 808.4 km for the 43L fuel tank.  
Based on the WLTP, this hybrid is actually not fuel economical because it is below 20. 🤣
EV will always be cheaper to run at the expense of charging infrastructure.  
Between EV, my Hybrid and my ex-ICE,  the cost per km should be around (cents) 7-8, 10-11 and 20-21.
There should be none at my home location but there are a few at my office location.
Unfortunate that they are outdoors.
Probably a lame plus point now is that when I leave the house and come back at the end of the day,  it is sheltered all the way. 🤣
Another probably lame plus point is in-between pump is about 12-13 days. 🤣

EH... 6s is fast but my 7.7s quite ok - faster than quite a few. 🤣

7.7s is decent. 

No charging at home, only at work, don’t think it makes sense to buy EV. If on leave, need to go find a charger, way too troublesome. 

[Voodooman]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:39 PM, Beregond said:

Lta want sg driver to change to EV.

I think judging from recent events and news, there is no looking back for SG on this, despite maybe a cool down from the west.

But at the same time while Sg driver are changing to EV, LTA is making sure their income from ownership of cars be it ICE or EV is not going to be effected or reduce, it does not matter 1 single bit if its greener or not greener. 

We can bet on this😂

Same tax revenue more or less (higher road tax to cover lost of revenue from excise duties on dino juice) but the country energy import bills will be much lower, air cleaner and can tell the whole world we are doing our part to reduce carbon emission.  Yup, no turning back. 

[inlinesix]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:31 PM, Voodooman said:

AD needs to make certain margin, if no rebate, EV prices here will be even higher. Hope Chinese EV will move on to a direct sales model, like in China.  Competition will put some of these legacy auto AD out of business sooner. 

i not defending greedy LTA, want EV transition but don’t want to give better financial incentives. 

I definitely understand that car importer/Dealer needs to make profits.

China car will kill Jap ICE/Hev. Singaporean die die will buy German cars.

 

[steveting99]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:39 PM, Beregond said:

Lta want sg driver to change to EV.

I think judging from recent events and news, there is no looking back for SG on this, despite maybe a cool down from the west.

But at the same time while Sg driver are changing to EV, LTA is making sure their income from ownership of cars be it ICE or EV is not going to be effected or reduce, it does not matter 1 single bit if its greener or not greener. 

We can bet on this😂

LTA is going to impose an additional non-Zero Emission Vehicle (non-ZEV) annual surcharge with the annual toad tax. It will be based on the polluter pays principal and tied to CoE value at the time of the renewal such as:

1 x CoE for Cat A

2 x CoE for Cat B

4 x CoE for Cat E

To overcome market manipulation by individuals or by large PHV companies (i.e. $1 CoE), there will be a floor of an alternative minimum non-ZEV annual surcharge on top pf the toad tax. This will be:

1 x AFR for Cat A

2 x ARF for Cat B

4 x AFR for Cat E 

There will always be some die-hard petrol heads who just refuse to give up their 100% ICE vehicles.🤣 These guys and girls love the smell of burnt petrol early in the morning and/or love vroom-vroom sound of the engine.😍 LTA won't deny or rob them their enjoyment, but will them pay for the privilege of burning dead dino juice for as long as they want. 

This is a simple, up-front and easy to understand surcharge. Should be straight forward to implement.

The recalcitrant petrol heads still have a choice and LTA gets a new revenue stream that will be multiples of the toad tax. A win-win for all. What's not to like?

Edited June 20 by steveting99
additional text for clarification

[Rskc]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:00 AM, Vratenza said:

In Singapore...what is WLTP? I am even prepared to go Mini EV (one of the shittiest range) if I am convinced of my own use case scenario.

Issues I have with EVs:

1) stupid EV road tax

2) EV rebate that AD makan up front and you pay for it later when you sell

3) battery degradation and electric motor degradation that no sane 2nd hand buyer in the market is willing to take the risk for unless you willing to take a serious hair cut off the selling price

4) slow charging (anything more than 15min full top up is slow).

1. Same same with ICE. Govt takes more from petrol.

2. Just know the car basic costs (after ves and eeai) vs selling price, and you will know the AD gross margin. It applies to both ICE or EV. Some AD's ICE margin is... 

3. Like it or not, come 2030, it is level playing field for all. Can we still find nokia phone? Unless going for hybrid. But then look at 180k for toyota sienta hybrid vs 180k for tesla model 3. Hmm...

4. 15min can do 50% top up for some EVs on DC chargers. No one drives to 0%, just like most of us do not drive to 0 fuel in ICE. I fill up my ICE when it hit 1/4 tank left. 

Not for or against EV. More of bo bian come 2030. Just need to adjust accordingly if wanna continue to drive. 😅

 

 

[Tianmo]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:39 PM, Beregond said:

Lta want sg driver to change to EV.

I think judging from recent events and news, there is no looking back for SG on this, despite maybe a cool down from the west.

But at the same time while Sg driver are changing to EV, LTA is making sure their income from ownership of cars be it ICE or EV is not going to be effected or reduce, it does not matter 1 single bit if its greener or not greener. 

We can bet on this😂

This is probably the only time we see the gov taking the lead, with SBS,  Singpost, sembcorp etc going EV.  

I personally think public transportation and delivery vehicles sld go EV, that includes taxis and PHVs. These make up more than half of our transportation systems, and will create the support of  infrastructure buildings required. 

Taxes wise, drive whatever you want, as long as money collected is not short charge, ah gong say one. 

 

[Tianmo]

On 6/20/2024 at 8:16 PM, inlinesix said:

I definitely understand that car importer/Dealer needs to make profits.

China car will kill Jap ICE/Hev. Singaporean die die will buy German cars.

 

When China starts pushing out more PHEVs that comes with ranges of over 2000km, 1000km Japanese HEV is going to look like a joke. And if you starts looking at their prices and build qualities, Japanese HEV is going to look like a big joke.  That day is close.

 

 

[mersaylee]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:39 PM, Beregond said:

Lta want sg driver to change to EV.

I think judging from recent events and news, there is no looking back for SG on this, despite maybe a cool down from the west.

But at the same time while Sg driver are changing to EV, LTA is making sure their income from ownership of cars be it ICE or EV is not going to be effected or reduce, it does not matter 1 single bit if its greener or not greener. 

We can bet on this😂

Becos of high coe...many have gone greener...😅

[Tianmo]

On 6/20/2024 at 10:19 PM, Rskc said:

1. Same same with ICE. Govt takes more from petrol.

2. Just know the car basic costs (after ves and eeai) vs selling price, and you will know the AD gross margin. It applies to both ICE or EV. Some AD's ICE margin is... 

3. Like it or not, come 2030, it is level playing field for all. Can we still find nokia phone? Unless going for hybrid. But then look at 180k for toyota sienta hybrid vs 180k for tesla model 3. Hmm...

4. 15min can do 50% top up for some EVs on DC chargers. No one drives to 0%, just like most of us do not drive to 0 fuel in ICE. I fill up my ICE when it hit 1/4 tank left. 

Not for or against EV. More of bo bian come 2030. Just need to adjust accordingly if wanna continue to drive. 😅

 

 

Yes you are right, a 120kwh charger theoritically can charge up 30kw in 15min, and that is about 50% battery capacity of 70-80% of our current EV population.