Is it really cheaper to own an EV?

[Voodooman]

On 6/16/2024 at 11:08 PM, steveting99 said:

There is a simple solution to this that aligns with Singapore government’s Green Plan 2030 and encouraging Singaporeans to adopt EVs as the future for transportation.

For those individuals who wish to continue burning dead dino juice and would like an alternative to EVs as their ride of choice (i.e. 100% ICE vehicle) - Singapore should implement the polluter pays principle of imposing the non-Zero Emission Vehicle (non-ZEV) annual surcharge. The value of the non-ZEV is based on the CoE value at the time.

For example the June 2024 Category A CoE is $88.2k. This will be the annual surcharge for owning 100% ICE burning dead dino juice Cat A vehicle.

How about those who which to own a Cat B 100% ICE vehicle burning dead dino juice? No problem, the annual non-ZEV is doubled. As an example, the June 2024 Category B CoE is $100.607k, so the annual non-ZEV surcharge comes to 2 x $100.607 = $201.214k. This will be the annual surcharge for owning 100% ICE burning dead dino juice Cat B vehicle.

On the open category vehicles (i.e. Cat E), the annual non-ZEV surcharge would be double the Cat B or 4x. So for example, the June 2024 Cat E CoE is $101.6k, so the annual non-ZEV surcharge is 4 x $101.6k = $406.4k. This will be the annual surcharge for owning 100% ICE burning dead dino juice Cat E vehicle.

One must be wondering about those owners who chose a vehicle that is in-between the 100% ICE burning dead dino juice and EV? An example is the hybrid vehicle such as the Toyota Prius. Surely having a hybrid is polluting less and thus deserves a discount? Your thinking isn’t wrong here and a hybrid vehicle owner is entitled to save 25% off the annual non-ZEV surcharge. Since plug-in hybrids are supposed to pollute even less, a further 15% discount on top of the 25% of the hybrid for a total of 40% discount is made available. Proof of plug-in on a regular basis (i.e. twice per week) to obtain the additional 15% discount. Charging apps should make this simple to do.

This is a sure win-win situation for all. Singaporeans still gets to choose on their ride and the Singapore government is going to earn some extra income from certain individuals who choices do not align with Green Plan 2030.

The Singapore government doesn’t have to provide any incentives nor any subsidies as the market will figure this out soon enough. Won’t take long to figure out how much cheaper it is to own an EV compared to ICE.

Excise tax on petrol and diesels.  

On 6/16/2024 at 5:10 PM, RadX said:

Ok @Voodooman poll stuck into this thread

 

let it ride… wanna see the end results 😂

Oh, you figured out a way to merge and yet keep the poll har.  

Edited June 17 by Voodooman

[RadX]

On 6/17/2024 at 9:55 AM, Voodooman said:

 

Oh, you figured out a way to merge and yet keep the poll har.  

Just merged the other thread in and this to be the alpha post

[Beanoyip]

Confirm cheaper to run, cheaper to maintain.. if you can get free charging.. i think SG no free charging unless you charge from home with solar.

[Voodooman]

On 6/17/2024 at 12:04 PM, Beanoyip said:

Confirm cheaper to run, cheaper to maintain.. if you can get free charging.. i think SG no free charging unless you charge from home with solar.

Yup. Don't quite understand the maths behind the EV vs hybrid comparison.

 

[rickosw]

On 6/15/2024 at 12:12 PM, Voodooman said:

For EV owners only

 

As an existing EV owners in Singapore, will your next car (replacement or for family) be an EV?  Or it will be back to ICE or a PHEV?

 

We have many EV threads with many comments from non EV owners. Thought a survey will be a fun way to provide potential EV buyers with reference point for a switch to EV in the local context.  Not sure if we have enough EV owners to make this statistically significant. 

 

In Canada, the number is 97%.

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/survey-of-over-16000-canadian-ev-owners-finds-nearly-all-are-not-going-back-to-ice/

 

In US, it is 60%.

https://supercarblondie.com/study-shows-ev-buyers-want-combustion-engines-back/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR15qjhII9OYsPOIM68oCIkXHE0soaSP7gg5POkpbW2fC5TegOdW9A3A1R8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

 

85% according to another survey but Gill Nowell is an EV advocate and might be using some biased data. 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/85-electric-car-drivers-would-never-go-back-ice-age-gill-nowell?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&utm_campaign=share_via

Hi,

I voted. but lets be honest, the number here is not accurate in the real world

u wana see EV adaption rate, just look at the monthly LTA monthly sales (should be out next week)

last i saw, May numbers, pure EV is almost at 35%. (exclude plug in hybrid electric), if you add those up, easily 40-45% ? or more? - someone can do the maths and share here

BYD is easily the Number 1 brand in SG - LTA numbers dont lie

Singpaoreans have voted with their wallets 

 

 

 

 

[Voodooman]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:00 PM, rickosw said:

Hi,

I voted. but lets be honest, the number here is not accurate in the real world

u wana see EV adaption rate, just look at the monthly LTA monthly sales (should be out next week)

last i saw, May numbers, pure EV is almost at 35%. (exclude plug in hybrid electric), if you add those up, easily 40-45% ? or more? - someone can do the maths and share here

BYD is easily the Number 1 brand in SG - LTA numbers dont lie

Singpaoreans have voted with their wallets 

 

I also think the poll is rigged. 😂

But many might be hoodwinked into buying an EV by western media and after owning one, they discover they kanna fxxked deep deep as the drive sucks, the expected saving did not materialise or finding charger is totally screwing up their daily lives. 😂😂😂

Hope you are enjoying your EV. 

[Beanoyip]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:53 PM, Voodooman said:

Yup. Don't quite understand the maths behind the EV vs hybrid comparison.

 

Hybrid will be good if you're doing long distance travel, OR very short trips that only utilise the EV mode. The discussion is endless, bottomline is you buy what suits your needs 

[Lethalstrike]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:12 PM, Voodooman said:

I also think the poll is rigged. 😂

But many might be hoodwinked into buying an EV by western media and after owning one, they discover they kanna fxxked deep deep as the drive sucks, the expected saving did not materialise or finding charger is totally screwing up their daily lives. 😂😂😂

Hope you are enjoying your EV. 

Sometimes those who said they got duped into buying an EV and got disappointed are those who drank the entire EV marketing kool-aid. I mean if a brand advertise it as 550km WLTP range, you will need to deduct 20% in real world range. And if you charge to 80% only to preserve batt life, its even lesser. They discovered this is the truth during ownership and swear that they won't be touching an EV ever again.

 

[Kklee]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:26 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Sometimes those who said they got duped into buying an EV and got disappointed are those who drank the entire EV marketing kool-aid. I mean if a brand advertise it as 550km WLTP range, you will need to deduct 20% in real world range. And if you charge to 80% only to preserve batt life, its even lesser. They discovered this is the truth during ownership and swear that they won't be touching an EV ever again.

 

IMHO.
If like that,  550km WLPT will become 352km.  If battery drain limit to 20%,  will become 264km range.  🤔

[Lethalstrike]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:37 PM, Kklee said:

IMHO.
If like that,  550km WLPT will become 352km.  If battery drain limit to 20%,  will become 264km range.  🤔

It should be,

550km advertised range based on WLTP controlled testing 

Deduct 20% from 550km = 440km in real world conditions if you drive from 100% to 0%

If you only charge your battery up to 80% every time, it will be 440km deduct another 20% = 352km range from 80% to 0%

[Terence2112]

I usually charge from 10% - 15% to 100% and heck the so-called 80% batt degradation nonsense. It’s covered with 8 yr warranty and I also don’t think I will drive the car for 8 yrs. 

[Tianmo]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:26 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Sometimes those who said they got duped into buying an EV and got disappointed are those who drank the entire EV marketing kool-aid. I mean if a brand advertise it as 550km WLTP range, you will need to deduct 20% in real world range. And if you charge to 80% only to preserve batt life, its even lesser. They discovered this is the truth during ownership and swear that they won't be touching an EV ever again.

 

I am EV advocate, @RadX say I must like that say.

But there is  one thing in common I found out between the east and the west when it comes to EVs. In the very cold areas, the ang mohs in the west kpkb that everyday they are " either charging their EVs, or on the way to charge their EVs." And the Chinese in the Far East colder region are also kpkb(ing) that " 每天不是在充电, 就是在往充电的路上." 

However, personally I don't think their issue is too much of a concern here.  300km actual range sld be quite adequate for most drivers who use the car to get to and from work,  and some weekend driving.

 

 

[Lethalstrike]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:16 PM, Terence2112 said:

I usually charge from 10% - 15% to 100% and heck the so-called 80% batt degradation nonsense. It’s covered with 8 yr warranty and I also don’t think I will drive the car for 8 yrs. 

If it's LFP battery, manufacturer actually encourages you to charge to 100% once a week to recalibrate the cells. 

If it's NMC battery, then 80% to 90% daily charging limit is usually recommended. 

But of course you can heck care and do whatever you wanted 😁

[Terence2112]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:19 PM, Lethalstrike said:

If it's LFP battery, manufacturer actually encourages you to charge to 100% once a week to recalibrate the cells. 

If it's NMC battery, then 80% to 90% daily charging limit is usually recommended. 

But of course you can heck care and do whatever you wanted 😁

Mines a NMC battery. I don’t charge daily and charge about once every 4 to 5 days to 100%. 

[Tianmo]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:06 PM, Lethalstrike said:

It should be,

550km advertised range based on WLTP controlled testing 

Deduct 20% from 550km = 440km in real world conditions if you drive from 100% to 0%

If you only charge your battery up to 80% every time, it will be 440km deduct another 20% = 352km range from 80% to 0%

I believe he is saying keep the battery level within 20% - 80%, as recommended by most EV manufacturers. So actual usable range is only 60%. And 264km is correct. If always wait for zero%, I think tow truck driver become good friend liao, soon got regular discount. 

 

Edited June 18 by Tianmo

[Lethalstrike]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:21 PM, Tianmo said:

I believe he is saying keep the battery level within 20% - 80%, as recommended by most EV manufacturers. So actual usable range is only 60%. And 264km is correct. If always wait for zero%, I think tow truck driver become good friend liao, soon got regular discount. 

 

It's like I give you 60L petrol tank but I also tell you 40% of the tank is not recommended to be used on a frequent basis. People very dulan this part 😁 On my car though, owners manual says 10-90% is recommended for daily usage. 

Edited June 18 by Lethalstrike

[RadX]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:30 PM, Lethalstrike said:

It's like I give you 60L petrol tank but I also tell you 40% of the tank is not recommended to be used on a frequent basis. People very dulan this part 😁 On my car though, owners manual says 10-90% is recommended for daily usage. 

yes, the working range....so far i charge when i can la....always keep to 80% la...since always have charging location now

[inlinesix]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:26 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Sometimes those who said they got duped into buying an EV and got disappointed are those who drank the entire EV marketing kool-aid. I mean if a brand advertise it as 550km WLTP range, you will need to deduct 20% in real world range. And if you charge to 80% only to preserve batt life, its even lesser. They discovered this is the truth during ownership and swear that they won't be touching an EV ever again.

On 6/18/2024 at 2:06 PM, Lethalstrike said:

It should be,

550km advertised range based on WLTP controlled testing 

Deduct 20% from 550km = 440km in real world conditions if you drive from 100% to 0%

If you only charge your battery up to 80% every time, it will be 440km deduct another 20% = 352km range from 80% to 0%

These ppl never watch carwow bideo la.

So far, the best (based on carwow test) is Merc EQE 300 (94% of claimed range).