Is it really cheaper to own an EV?

[inlinesix]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:29 PM, Silverkris said:

EV is not environment friendly in Singapore context, we burn gas etc to get our power supply here, just a nobel name to pass the emission around.

Unless 80% of our electricity power can get by solar, hydro, wind, I do not think driving an EV is good for the environment, just a commercial trend to make you believe so.

I will fully support Toyota hydrogen powered vehicle if  it is fully workable and safe. We have abundance of Hydrogen, and the by products H2O is definitely what we need anyway.

It is true that our energy will never be environmentally friendly. 

On the other hand, limiting polluting sources to 10 (maybe) rather than 1m, isn't better in the management of air quality?

Japan is pushing for hydrogen fuel cell as it has insufficient electricity.

Currently, Hydrogen is extracted from LPG rather than water

[Lethalstrike]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:29 PM, Silverkris said:

EV is not environment friendly in Singapore context, we burn gas etc to get our power supply here, just a nobel name to pass the emission around.

Unless 80% of our electricity power can get by solar, hydro, wind, I do not think driving an EV is good for the environment, just a commercial trend to make you believe so.

I will fully support Toyota hydrogen powered vehicle if  it is fully workable and safe. We have abundance of Hydrogen, and the by products H2O is definitely what we need anyway.

But the cost to extract hydrogen is substantial, not forgetting the investment in infrastructure needed for hydrogen pumps. For those staying in landed, also not possible to have a hydrogen pump installed in their house, but you can have a charger installed in your landed property. 

I'm not saying hydrogen is impossible in the near future, but I think with how much $$$ car manufacturers are pouring into EV & battery technology, as well as govt investing into EV charging infrastructure, its highly likely EV technology will mature and get real mass market adoption first. 

Your 1st point is valid. That is also the reason why Singapore is importing electricity from renewable sources from abroad, to bring down the carbon footprint generated here. 

 

[Stratovarius]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:39 PM, Ct3833 said:

 one reason for me to go EV is, if i had the money power and at the same time believe that EV will help save the climate warming, then i will go EV.

 

EV is cleaner to run, but not to produce or breakdown. We need to know more on the product life cycle to really know if EV is more environmental friendly. i have my doubts on EV but i know we are running out of dinosaur juice. 

 

[inlinesix]

On 10/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, Stratovarius said:

EV is cleaner to run, but not to produce or breakdown. We need to know more on the product life cycle to really know if EV is more environmental friendly. i have my doubts on EV but i know we are running out of dinosaur juice. 

We are not running out of dino juice.

Rather, it is getting more expensive to extract as it is in deeper ocean.

[Voodooman]

Almost all electricity produces in Singapore are from natural gas.

The CO2 produced from burning petrol, distilled from crude, is around 30% higher than natural gas (excluding other pollutants that comes out of the tail pipes of an ICE vehicle). Gas is always cleaner. 

[Rm2s]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:46 PM, Voodooman said:

Almost all electricity produces in Singapore are from natural gas.

The CO2 produced from burning petrol, distilled from crude, is around 30% higher than natural gas (excluding other pollutants that comes out of the tail pipes of an ICE vehicle). Gas is always cleaner. 

In addition, when government enforced carbon policy on power plants, the benefits will be felt across the entire consumer space. Also when power plant upgrade their generator sets (which quite a few of them are running on pretty old ones currently), the efficiency will go further up and again benefit the entire consumer spectrum.

[Volvobrick]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:02 AM, Rm2s said:

In addition, when government enforced carbon policy on power plants, the benefits will be felt across the entire consumer space. Also when power plant upgrade their generator sets (which quite a few of them are running on pretty old ones currently), the efficiency will go further up and again benefit the entire consumer spectrum.

What are you smoking? Enforce carbon policy aka carbon pricing the additional costs are passed to consumers and businesses.  Consumers benefit?

[Voodooman]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:02 AM, Rm2s said:

In addition, when government enforced carbon policy on power plants, the benefits will be felt across the entire consumer space. Also when power plant upgrade their generator sets (which quite a few of them are running on pretty old ones currently), the efficiency will go further up and again benefit the entire consumer spectrum.

Yes. Power plant efficiency these days are also much higher (vis-a-vis ICE), some say as much as 40-50% but that is something I can't validate. 

I read the latest power plant can use hydrogen as fuel although i highly doubt it will ever be competitive, cost wise. You need a lot of energy to split water with electrolysis or to crack hydrocarbons.  Elon Musk calls it the dumbest idea. 

[L23]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:26 AM, Volvobrick said:

What are you smoking? Enforce carbon policy aka carbon pricing the additional costs are passed to consumers and businesses.  Consumers benefit?

9% GST is to build the nation and benefit everyone while 150k COE is to benefit the poor.

[Voodooman]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:26 AM, Volvobrick said:

What are you smoking? Enforce carbon policy aka carbon pricing the additional costs are passed to consumers and businesses.  Consumers benefit?

Aiyo, he is just saying with rising carbon tax, expected to increase 5x next year and to double again in 2030, we will need to pay more for both petrol and electricity but the latter, generated using gas with 30% less carbon footprint (and improving with plant upgrades), will incur lower carbon tax than petrol. 

Pay more more but less (relatively), so still a benefit. 😂 😂😂

 

 

[Rm2s]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:26 AM, Volvobrick said:

What are you smoking? Enforce carbon policy aka carbon pricing the additional costs are passed to consumers and businesses.  Consumers benefit?

The context of my post is about efficiency of using fuel on individual car vs EV charging via generated electricity from power plant. There is no pricing nor cost in my post. So, yeah, I am not smoking anything .. I am just participating in a discussion in context.

[Vratenza]

with all the discussion on the running cost of EVs, environmental friendliness....did anyone do any research on the depreciation cost for an EV in Singapore context (paper value, resale demand, dealer low balling)?

[hansmith]

If you stay landed and have solar panels installed on your roof and you charge your EV at home exclusively, then you can really say you are really emissions free. I assume the panels generate enough power. No idea if that's possible.

Edited February 18 by hansmith

[Kklee]

On 2/18/2024 at 4:38 PM, hansmith said:

If you stay landed and have solar panels installed on your roof and you charge your EV at home exclusively, then you can really say you are really emissions free. I assume the panels generate enough power. No idea if that's possible.

IMHO.
I think the initial cost for such installation is high - anything green usually come with a cost and will cost more. 
I reckon charging EV at own home will save 40-50%. 

 

[Vratenza]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:13 AM, Kklee said:

IMHO.
I think the initial cost for such installation is high - anything green usually come with a cost and will cost more. 
I reckon charging EV at own home will save 40-50%. 

 

Solar panel also have finite lifespan...last i read was around 10 yrs and all the while the degradation will drop the efficiency in energy conversion. 

so end up you are also contributing to carbon emission (solar panel and capacitor manufacturing). and not saving as much as stated on paper.

[Volvobrick]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:51 PM, Vratenza said:

Solar panel also have finite lifespan...last i read was around 10 yrs and all the while the degradation will drop the efficiency in energy conversion. 

so end up you are also contributing to carbon emission (solar panel and capacitor manufacturing). and not saving as much as stated on paper.

They are generally guaranteed for 25 years. And not like suddenly zero power, maybe degrade to 80%. Just add 20% more panels to make up I presume can liao. 

[Vratenza]

On 2/21/2024 at 1:22 PM, Volvobrick said:

They are generally guaranteed for 25 years. And not like suddenly zero power, maybe degrade to 80%. Just add 20% more panels to make up I presume can liao. 

Yes,  I stand corrected... 

https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/11/how-efficient-are-solar-panels

The efficiency as well as the degradation is something that needs alot of improvement... 

[RadX]

On 2/21/2024 at 2:23 PM, Vratenza said:

Yes,  I stand corrected... 

https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/11/how-efficient-are-solar-panels

The efficiency as well as the degradation is something that needs alot of improvement... 

normally stand is erected but nvm…😂