Is it really cheaper to own an EV?

[Tianmo]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:30 PM, Lethalstrike said:

It's like I give you 60L petrol tank but I also tell you 40% of the tank is not recommended to be used on a frequent basis. People very dulan this part 😁 On my car though, owners manual says 10-90% is recommended for daily usage. 

I think it's a mindset thing. Like even on an ICE car, who would drive until zero fuel car stall? Usually the low fuel light comes on with about maybe 15%-20% fuel left, some will already gan cheong until BBQ liao, faster must find petrol stations. So in reality, most of us also fill up our ICE cars when left with between 10-20% , and not zero. With ICE cars, most of us also hardly pump until 100%, like most times when the gun stops, we can usually squeeze in another 10%. If like those go JB gian png shake shake shake, can squeeze in maybe another 5%, so in reality, ICE cars also not fill up to 100%. With ICE cars, we also fill up from 20% to maybe 90%,  not any much different from EV, maybe the difference is ICE can travel further. 

However, with battery technology advancement, soon, very soon, EV range will outdo the fuel tank for sure.  So asking current EV drivers for opinions is really pointless, because newer and better battery technology will always be produce, and more ICE drivers will switch, that's just simple human behavior. 

See, @RadXorder I am EV advocate, so I am EV advocate, but I am the demon, so sometimes I am also the devil advocate lah.

 

[Tianmo]

On 6/18/2024 at 3:18 PM, RadX said:

yes, the working range....so far i charge when i can la....always keep to 80% la...since always have charging location now

I know of someone, who actually keeps his tank half full only, and he goes pump petrol everyday or every other day, to fill up to half tank only.

He does that to keep the car light, for better pick up and better FC, and at the same time keep the fuel pump in the tank submerge. 

So yah, even with ICE cars also got ppl fill up daily.

 

[Terence2112]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:13 PM, Tianmo said:

I know of someone, who actually keeps his tank half full only, and he goes pump petrol everyday or every other day, to fill up to half tank only.

He does that to keep the car light, for better pick up and better FC, and at the same time keep the fuel pump in the tank submerge. 

So yah, even with ICE cars also got ppl fill up daily.

 

Your friend can easily pivot to EV. Petrol stations = Charging stations. 

[Kklee]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:06 PM, Lethalstrike said:

It should be,

550km advertised range based on WLTP controlled testing 

Deduct 20% from 550km = 440km in real world conditions if you drive from 100% to 0%

If you only charge your battery up to 80% every time, it will be 440km deduct another 20% = 352km range from 80% to 0%

IMHO.
Similar.
550km WLTP.   Real world about 80% = 440km.
Charge between 20%-80%, usable is 60% = 264km. 

Edited June 18 by Kklee

[Kklee]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:02 PM, Tianmo said:

I think it's a mindset thing. Like even on an ICE car, who would drive until zero fuel car stall? Usually the low fuel light comes on with about maybe 15%-20% fuel left, some will already gan cheong until BBQ liao, faster must find petrol stations. So in reality, most of us also fill up our ICE cars when left with between 10-20% , and not zero. With ICE cars, most of us also hardly pump until 100%, like most times when the gun stops, we can usually squeeze in another 10%. If like those go JB gian png shake shake shake, can squeeze in maybe another 5%, so in reality, ICE cars also not fill up to 100%. With ICE cars, we also fill up from 20% to maybe 90%,  not any much different from EV, maybe the difference is ICE can travel further. 

However, with battery technology advancement, soon, very soon, EV range will outdo the fuel tank for sure.  So asking current EV drivers for opinions is really pointless, because newer and better battery technology will always be produce, and more ICE drivers will switch, that's just simple human behavior. 

See, @RadXorder I am EV advocate, so I am EV advocate, but I am the demon, so sometimes I am also the devil advocate lah.

 

IMHO.
Based on my last full tank (hybrid), I will be waiting for a running EV to exceed about 1,284km WLTP. 

[Kklee]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:21 PM, Tianmo said:

I believe he is saying keep the battery level within 20% - 80%, as recommended by most EV manufacturers. So actual usable range is only 60%. And 264km is correct. If always wait for zero%, I think tow truck driver become good friend liao, soon got regular discount. 

 

IMHO.
I saw a Youtube that a Tesla can be charged while being towed.  Maybe can sign up for free towing (e.g. AAS).    Free towing = free charging. 🤣

[Kklee]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:01 PM, inlinesix said:

These ppl never watch carwow bideo la.

So far, the best (based on carwow test) is Merc EQE 300 (94% of claimed range).

IMHO.
I think that video is cool and rainy weather.  🤔

[Lethalstrike]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:02 PM, Tianmo said:

I think it's a mindset thing. Like even on an ICE car, who would drive until zero fuel car stall? Usually the low fuel light comes on with about maybe 15%-20% fuel left, some will already gan cheong until BBQ liao, faster must find petrol stations. So in reality, most of us also fill up our ICE cars when left with between 10-20% , and not zero. With ICE cars, most of us also hardly pump until 100%, like most times when the gun stops, we can usually squeeze in another 10%. If like those go JB gian png shake shake shake, can squeeze in maybe another 5%, so in reality, ICE cars also not fill up to 100%. With ICE cars, we also fill up from 20% to maybe 90%,  not any much different from EV, maybe the difference is ICE can travel further. 

However, with battery technology advancement, soon, very soon, EV range will outdo the fuel tank for sure.  So asking current EV drivers for opinions is really pointless, because newer and better battery technology will always be produce, and more ICE drivers will switch, that's just simple human behavior. 

See, @RadXorder I am EV advocate, so I am EV advocate, but I am the demon, so sometimes I am also the devil advocate lah.

Putting in a bigger battery (more cells and modules) to increase the kWh and thus the range is what most of the brands are doing. But, problem is costs and weight goes up which affects profits and efficiency. Really need a breakthrough in battery chemistry tech and manufacturing technique for the next quantum leap.

We're lucky here because Singapore is small and chargers' density can be increased easily. Average distances and speeds in our city also works out well for the average EV. Lastly, no winter here to drastically reduce the efficiency and range of the battery. If I need to chiong up KL and back every other week, ICE is still unbeatable. Sustained high speeds EVs really cannot. Projected range and efficiency will drop like shit once you put the pedal to the metal 😁 

 

[inlinesix]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:37 PM, Kklee said:

IMHO.
I think that video is cool and rainy weather.  🤔

Sub-20 deg is not optimum.

Even then, there are 3 cars achieved 82% of claims range (worst).

[Beregond]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:26 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Sometimes those who said they got duped into buying an EV and got disappointed are those who drank the entire EV marketing kool-aid. I mean if a brand advertise it as 550km WLTP range, you will need to deduct 20% in real world range. And if you charge to 80% only to preserve batt life, its even lesser. They discovered this is the truth during ownership and swear that they won't be touching an EV ever again.

 

its the same as ICE.

which brand and model ICE  , that advertise their FC how good how good, u can actually hit that on actual driving?? 

need to take away at least 20% also😂

[RadX]

I dunno.. I still get 420 on full tank but I charge when I hit 30% thereabouts. almost same as when I drove ICE.. pass by petrol station, pump lo

 

now is when I come home jus plug in n go hm..😂 or go office, plug in, go work. Lunchtime drive out and would be ready to go

[Hamburger]

Lazy me wanna to know the charging capabilities of the different chargers available in local context.

In MSCP, shopping mall, petrol kiosk etc....

[inlinesix]

On 6/18/2024 at 7:11 PM, Hamburger said:

Lazy me wanna to know the charging capabilities of the different chargers available in local context.

In MSCP, shopping mall, petrol kiosk etc....

Even SP has DC50 - 150.

You my transport app to know what’s available near your home.

The range toooooo wide liao

[Tianmo]

On 6/18/2024 at 5:30 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Putting in a bigger battery (more cells and modules) to increase the kWh and thus the range is what most of the brands are doing. But, problem is costs and weight goes up which affects profits and efficiency. Really need a breakthrough in battery chemistry tech and manufacturing technique for the next quantum leap.

We're lucky here because Singapore is small and chargers' density can be increased easily. Average distances and speeds in our city also works out well for the average EV. Lastly, no winter here to drastically reduce the efficiency and range of the battery. If I need to chiong up KL and back every other week, ICE is still unbeatable. Sustained high speeds EVs really cannot. Projected range and efficiency will drop like shit once you put the pedal to the metal 😁 

 

Psssssst...... PHEV you know?

 

[Tianmo]

On 6/18/2024 at 7:11 PM, Hamburger said:

Lazy me wanna to know the charging capabilities of the different chargers available in local context.

In MSCP, shopping mall, petrol kiosk etc....

What I notice, in most HDB MSCPs are mostly 7.5 and 11kwh AC chargers, my side the nearest shopping mall has all 22kwh AC chargers, some nearby malls has up to 30kwh,  petrol stations I saw got 11kwh AC,  50kwh, and 120kwh DC chargers. Some commercial buildings within 5km has 120kwh DC. 

Other than HDB MSCPs (7.5 and 11kwh AC ), the range actually not fix, can differ quite a lot.

Must zoom into your area to pin down.  Like I already found a few I can use already. 

 

[Lethalstrike]

On 6/18/2024 at 8:31 PM, Tianmo said:

Psssssst...... PHEV you know?

 

Some say its the best of both worlds, some say its the worst of both worlds.

Either way its true 😁

[Hamburger]

On 6/18/2024 at 8:44 PM, Tianmo said:

What I notice, in most HDB MSCPs are mostly 7.5 and 11kwh AC chargers, my side the nearest shopping mall has all 22kwh AC chargers, some nearby malls has up to 30kwh,  petrol stations I saw got 11kwh AC,  50kwh, and 120kwh DC chargers. Some commercial buildings within 5km has 120kwh DC. 

Other than HDB MSCPs (7.5 and 11kwh AC ), the range actually not fix, can differ quite a lot.

Must zoom into your area to pin down.  Like I already found a few I can use already. 

 

Frankly anything below 50kwh is unacceptable let alone AC charging.

What good is the latest EV with 350kwh when charged with 22kwh.

 

It's like I have a big turbo but engine is 660cc.

[inlinesix]

On 6/18/2024 at 8:54 PM, Hamburger said:

Frankly anything below 50kwh is unacceptable let alone AC charging.

What good is the latest EV with 350kwh when charged with 22kwh.

 

It's like I have a big turbo but engine is 660cc.

350kwh is DC fast charge

22kwh is AC fastest charge

Use a lot of DC will shorten battery life unless you change car like radx.