International Baccalaureate (IBDP) in Singapore - Parent's POV

[Vratenza]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:27 AM, Lala81 said:

Now is treat everyone with respect. All occupations are good occupations. 

Hmm i had no pressure for psle at all. O levels also just intrinsic motivation. Other than need to do well. 

Now the pressure is pretty overwhelming. 

The buildup to A levels must be worse cos even I struggled back then. 

 

Honestly never thought my own kid will have anxiety attack, but she did. Once last year and once this year.

So I tone down a bit. Focus a bit more on mental health.

I'm no crazy eagle dad but I do have high but reasonable expectations. And I do focus on relative improvement rather than comparing. 

Is my girl less hungry than me? I think it's a matter of finding intrinsic motivation. The problem is I guess so much time is taken up by school work and stuff. 

 

My time, both my parents highest education, one is P6 one is sec 4.

Stay home mom and father busy with blue collar work. 

Stay in hdb, considered lower middle class bah. 

I will not say that at P6, I was "hungry" for academic success... At the back of my mind, I probably know that I have to give it my all to get out of the SES... 

I am the 1st person in my extended clan to get to JC and then Uni.

[Lala81]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:54 AM, Vratenza said:

My son's talent and interest is in Arts (drawing sketching kind), so every sunday ritual of sending him for the Art lessons at NAFA since P1 is like a stress reliever for him after a whole week of academic subjects.

Let him do skateboarding every saturday is also one way to burn off his excess energy and train up his balance and athletic abilities. Piano lessons every week also serves distract him from the mundanities of academicc work. 

Since P2, he was selected (via some internal selection trials for various CCA during PE lessons)  to join and train under the TT school team and won a few medals from inter schools here and there. But as a parent, I can see for TT, he has the natural talent for it but he has almost zero interest in it. So even for DSA, we did not even bother to even consider using TT. 

DSA into an AEP IP school is the aim which he can at least have a non academic subject that he is talented and have interest to pursue even in sec/jc level. 

I don't want to say what pri school this is. But my sons kid went for internal school TT Trial at p2. Not good enough, send home, don't need to join as cca. No bat, send home, don't need to try at all. 

Same with tennis at p3. Cannot serve over the net, you are out. Can't even progress to real selection. 

My kids school, my son joined TT as cca. Anyone can join basically lol. 

 

Hahaha my kids can't draw for nuts. Yeah lah, I think music is an outlet (if you aren't super talented to pursue it beyond usual Abrsm etc). For art, with AI its tricky as a future profession but it's an outlet that requires a lot of focus and craft. 

Quite a few IP schools have AEP. Dsa visual arts. Need to have portfolio of 10 pieces or what. 

[Lala81]

On 5/18/2024 at 8:04 AM, Vratenza said:

My time, both my parents highest education, one is P6 one is sec 4.

Stay home mom and father busy with blue collar work. 

Stay in hdb, considered lower middle class bah. 

I will not say that at P6, I was "hungry" for academic success... At the back of my mind, I probably know that I have to give it my all to get out of the SES... 

I am the 1st person in my extended clan to get to JC and then Uni.

My mum is sec 2 (haha I always thought she's p6 only until much later). My dad is a levels. 

My dad is low level white collar. Mum blue collar. But she was at home for half my schooling years. 

Low to mid middle class I guess. 

That time kids very swagu lah. People got car, you take bus and mrt only is also just like that. Ha. 

Nowadays true that kids hear of Disneyland trips before u even bring them. 

Edited May 18, 2024 by Lala81

[Vratenza]

On 5/18/2024 at 8:08 AM, Lala81 said:

I don't want to say what pri school this is. But my sons kid went for internal school TT Trial at p2. Not good enough, send home, don't need to join as cca. No bat, send home, don't need to try at all. 

Same with tennis at p3. Cannot serve over the net, you are out. Can't even progress to real selection. 

My kids school, my son joined TT as cca. Anyone can join basically lol. 

 

Hahaha my kids can't draw for nuts. Yeah lah, I think music is an outlet (if you aren't super talented to pursue it beyond usual Abrsm etc). For art, with AI its tricky as a future profession but it's an outlet that requires a lot of focus and craft. 

Quite a few IP schools have AEP. Dsa visual arts. Need to have portfolio of 10 pieces or what. 

Yeah as what some MCFers (think is Tianmo) said, DSA can be a boon and bane.

Boon in the sense that it is psychological safety net for the kid (or parents?😁) and if the parent can impart the right mindset towards DSA/PSLE, it can be like propranol before major exams (I heard of some uni classmates doing that but never believe in it 😅)

Bane will be that the parent uses DSA as a means to get the kid into a school that the kid's natural academic ability do not measure up to...the kid will suffer for the next 4-6 yrs and probably end up hating school and the parents. Saw on TV some local small production interviewing people (voice masked and face mosiac...machiam some convicted criminal😅) who gone through GEP/IP school system, one of the thing that stood out for me is the common mention of elitism within the school, of students getting in via DSA vs students getting in via PSLE results.

no worries, the tiger mom in the house already zeroed in on the 2 AEP IP schools for him...😂

 

[Lala81]

On 5/18/2024 at 8:52 AM, Vratenza said:

Yeah as what some MCFers (think is Tianmo) said, DSA can be a boon and bane.

Boon in the sense that it is psychological safety net for the kid (or parents?😁) and if the parent can impart the right mindset towards DSA/PSLE, it can be like propranol before major exams (I heard of some uni classmates doing that but never believe in it 😅)

Bane will be that the parent uses DSA as a means to get the kid into a school that the kid's natural academic ability do not measure up to...the kid will suffer for the next 4-6 yrs and probably end up hating school and the parents. Saw on TV some local small production interviewing people (voice masked and face mosiac...machiam some convicted criminal😅) who gone through GEP/IP school system, one of the thing that stood out for me is the common mention of elitism within the school, of students getting in via DSA vs students getting in via PSLE results.

no worries, the tiger mom in the house already zeroed in on the 2 AEP IP schools for him...😂

 

Actually from what I know. Dsa application is from now till first week of July. Nowadays Dsa result (at least for the parents info sheet I saw by some schools) is only out in first week of Sept. Psle is over by first week of October. 

So it's just one month of relief.

After the psle until the result in last week of Nov, doesnt really bother me that much. 

 

All the top schools are very competitive internally as well. Leadership position etc. 

[Lala81]

Most schools for sports dsa. Also need the p5 and p6 mid term grades to match up, not too far off. 

And for schools with dual streams like those with affiliation, they may. COfor O level (SEC) only. 

[Sosaria]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:27 AM, Lala81 said:

Now is treat everyone with respect. All occupations are good occupations. 

Hmm i had no pressure for psle at all. O levels also just intrinsic motivation. Other than need to do well. 

Now the pressure is pretty overwhelming. 

The buildup to A levels must be worse cos even I struggled back then. 

 

Honestly never thought my own kid will have anxiety attack, but she did. Once last year and once this year.

So I tone down a bit. Focus a bit more on mental health.

I'm no crazy eagle dad but I do have high but reasonable expectations. And I do focus on relative improvement rather than comparing. 

Is my girl less hungry than me? I think it's a matter of finding intrinsic motivation. The problem is I guess so much time is taken up by school work and stuff. 

 

Last time our PSLE is like, nobody talks about mental health  But we all did okay.

Nonetheless, I acknowledge that school-life is busier and comes with higher expectations nowadays than our time.

My eldest kid also had some kinda stressful event in P5 till my wife and me were called to meeting with the teacher, who were surprised to find that we were pretty much relaxed and soft-spoken parents. So the stress is intrinsic. In a good school with brilliant classmates, a kid can be under great stress to keep up even without parents pushing them.

[Ender]

On 5/16/2024 at 10:25 PM, Krieger said:

 

You have to know your kid well. If he or she loves to study then HCI is for you. But if alike to my son who frustrated his teachers asking questions on quantum physics etc,

 

Have you watched Young Sheldon? 😅

[Vratenza]

Think google algorithm is working overtime....this was pushed to me via the recommended browsing earlier 😅:

https://theindependent.sg/us-dad-worries-about-how-much-stress-singapore-school-system-is-putting-on-his-teen-daughter/

US dad worries about how much stress Singapore school system is putting on his teen daughter

By Anna Maria Romero

 MAY 17, 2024

By one metric—albeit a significant one— Singapore’s education system is very successful indeed, and the country’s top universities consistently rank high on global lists. In March, a professor in the United States even asked if Singapore math could be “a fix for U.S. mathematics education?”

Nevertheless, high scores come at a high price, and some have asked if young students in  Singapore are under too much pressure to do well, at the expense of school-life balance.

An American writer who lives in Singapore and who taught at one of the “highest-rated independent all-boys secondary schools” in the country wrote an essay for Business Insider,  published on Friday (17 May), where he said that he worried about the amount of stress his 14-year-old daughter has been under in her experience in  Singapore schools, in comparison to his own experience growing up in the US.

In a piece called “I have fond memories of high school in America. I’m worried my daughter won’t feel the same in  Singapore,” Jason Erik Lundberg said that he looks back fondly on his high school years but his daughter, now in Secondary 3, “is far more stressed out than I remember being at the same age.”

“When she was 11 and in Primary Six,  Singapore was still under heavy COVID-19 restrictions, which was taxing enough for a young student. However, she also had to take the standardized Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE), which would determine the secondary schools she’d be eligible for the following year.

“From where I sat, she spent the majority of that school year studying for that test, and felt intense pressure — along with the rest of her cohort — from the teachers to do well. This led to prolonged neurosis that year, and as a result, she lost over 10 pounds, when she was a slender kid to begin with,” Mr Lundberg wrote.

Writing about how proud he is of his daughter, he acknowledged that part of the pressure she is under comes from the high standards she has set for herself, “much of which has come from her school environment,” and added that  Singapore has had a “shift in the focus of education away from purely academic grades and test results.”

Other voices have called for changes as well. In Parliament last year, Workers’ Party MP Jamus Lim brought up a “Flexible Through-Train Program for Schools,” designed to help students who find tests stressful and learn at a pace that is suitable for them.

Fellow WP MP Gerald Giam has similarly called for reforms, underlining the tremendous stress students are subjected to.

“When stress becomes toxic, it can have negative effects on learning and knowledge retention and, in extreme situations, could become chronic,” Mr Giam, a father of two, who has helped his children through the Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE), said.

Associate Professor Pak Tee Ng from Nanyang Technological University, talked to Spanish newspaper El País last year about how important play is to learning.

Saying that assignments are being reduced in  Singapore, he added, “We want to create spaces for the students to learn new things, and play is part of learning… Of course, you need to practice a bit; otherwise, you quickly forget, but there can be an excess of practice to the detriment of other areas of development, which we also care about.” 

[D3badge]

On 5/16/2024 at 11:22 AM, inlinesix said:

Both local and international schools 

Bulk are RI and HCI, like you ask people name me a sport cars brand, many will reply default Ferrari or Lamborghini 😁

https://www.ntu.edu.sg/nie/news-events/news/detail/more-s-porean-students-heading-to-oxbridge-what-s-fuelling-them

like our genius Max 

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/people-didnt-really-me-despite-new-found-fame-geography-whiz-max-zeng-says-he-didnt-always-fit-1870301

Edited May 18, 2024 by D3badge

[Lala81]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:46 AM, Vratenza said:

Think google algorithm is working overtime....this was pushed to me via the recommended browsing earlier 😅:

https://theindependent.sg/us-dad-worries-about-how-much-stress-singapore-school-system-is-putting-on-his-teen-daughter/

US dad worries about how much stress Singapore school system is putting on his teen daughter

By Anna Maria Romero

 MAY 17, 2024

By one metric—albeit a significant one— Singapore’s education system is very successful indeed, and the country’s top universities consistently rank high on global lists. In March, a professor in the United States even asked if Singapore math could be “a fix for U.S. mathematics education?”

Nevertheless, high scores come at a high price, and some have asked if young students in  Singapore are under too much pressure to do well, at the expense of school-life balance.

An American writer who lives in Singapore and who taught at one of the “highest-rated independent all-boys secondary schools” in the country wrote an essay for Business Insider,  published on Friday (17 May), where he said that he worried about the amount of stress his 14-year-old daughter has been under in her experience in  Singapore schools, in comparison to his own experience growing up in the US.

In a piece called “I have fond memories of high school in America. I’m worried my daughter won’t feel the same in  Singapore,” Jason Erik Lundberg said that he looks back fondly on his high school years but his daughter, now in Secondary 3, “is far more stressed out than I remember being at the same age.”

“When she was 11 and in Primary Six,  Singapore was still under heavy COVID-19 restrictions, which was taxing enough for a young student. However, she also had to take the standardized Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE), which would determine the secondary schools she’d be eligible for the following year.

“From where I sat, she spent the majority of that school year studying for that test, and felt intense pressure — along with the rest of her cohort — from the teachers to do well. This led to prolonged neurosis that year, and as a result, she lost over 10 pounds, when she was a slender kid to begin with,” Mr Lundberg wrote.

Writing about how proud he is of his daughter, he acknowledged that part of the pressure she is under comes from the high standards she has set for herself, “much of which has come from her school environment,” and added that  Singapore has had a “shift in the focus of education away from purely academic grades and test results.”

Other voices have called for changes as well. In Parliament last year, Workers’ Party MP Jamus Lim brought up a “Flexible Through-Train Program for Schools,” designed to help students who find tests stressful and learn at a pace that is suitable for them.

Fellow WP MP Gerald Giam has similarly called for reforms, underlining the tremendous stress students are subjected to.

“When stress becomes toxic, it can have negative effects on learning and knowledge retention and, in extreme situations, could become chronic,” Mr Giam, a father of two, who has helped his children through the Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE), said.

Associate Professor Pak Tee Ng from Nanyang Technological University, talked to Spanish newspaper El País last year about how important play is to learning.

Saying that assignments are being reduced in  Singapore, he added, “We want to create spaces for the students to learn new things, and play is part of learning… Of course, you need to practice a bit; otherwise, you quickly forget, but there can be an excess of practice to the detriment of other areas of development, which we also care about.” 

I read the original article while waiting in the carpark before going to openhouse today. Lol. 

 

 

[Sosaria]

It's a balance. If too much relaxed, students may switch off and consider it not serious. Or too simple, does not engage them, especially the faster learners. There has to be some test, some pressure, to make sure that everyone put in effort and learn something. Differentiation of the cohort, so to speak.

Self-driven or independent learning does not work for most kids up to secondary or even poly age - despite what MOE is trying to push. Kids are kids. They'd rather do something more interesting that's not related to "studies". Putting recorded lecture online, who want to sit there and watch? Put the AI chatbot to answer questions, who want to start it up unless teacher tells them to do something that requires it?

Independent learning and motivation only comes in when, say, i want to do some home DIY repair, and i go and watch youtube videos to learn it

 

Edited May 18, 2024 by Sosaria

[TangoCharlie]

On 5/16/2024 at 11:44 AM, Lala81 said:

Benefits potentially

- less overall stress cos it's an international exam vs just our A levels which are of a higher difficulty level

- more holistic learning and more suited for University or actual working life

Potential cons

- less demanding on sciences/mathematics. So if u are going into hard STEM in local Uni, u maybe lagging behind initially. 

 

Overall, it's either very $$$$ or you have to be very good academically to get into the 3 above schools. 

both of boys went through SJI IBDP. My elder one went on one overseas trip to help an orphanage and came back a better person literally. Less self centered and more considerate. The second one unlucky not to have similar exposure due to Covid. Not sure if they still run this programme nowadays.

There's more collaboration among students due to project work and presentation. It helps if your kid's English is good.

There's lots of writing (extended essay and TOK). For me it would have been a nightmare and better off doing A level. 😅

No walk in the park but your final grade does not depend on only 1 final paper.

No regrets.

Some commented that A level has been revised to look more like IBDP. There you have it. Hehe.