PSLE science chief marker... what a load of ....

[Lala81]

  On 3/29/2024 at 4:42 AM, Ender said:

For us, mostly not gifted in the English language, learning to use keywords is the hack to score in the subject.

 

Anyway, I skipped to part where he explained about keywords, even the example he used that shows the student showing understanding of concept, also got to used keywords. He used "heat gain", "water vapor", these are keywords in itself.

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Yup that is unfortunately the case. 

If u use the phrase heat transfer = zero marks. 

Heat gain or heat loss is the only acceptable keywords. 

Like even evaporation is not the key word.

"The water droplets evaporated" is sufficient only for a 1m answer. 

"The water droplets gained heat and evaporated into water vapour." I mean this would be the gold standard answer. In case of ambiguous acceptance, that would be what I tell my kid to write. 

[Lala81]

  On 3/29/2024 at 4:33 AM, Tianmo said:

Every year, my children's primary school would conduct a psle briefing for parents. What I was told was, markers will always first look out for key words and award points to key words first, then they will go into the content and look for acceptable answers. Keywords alone won't give you the full marks, neither will having no keywords. So they were looking for keywords and a short few sentences write up kind of answers to award the most points, but keywords certainly gets more.

Things might have changed over the years, and the focus on our education system might have also shifted. However, we cannot disregard the fact that changes take time to be accepted, and with many teachers in the system doing the same thing every year over the last xx years, you won't be able to do a complete system change over night. 

What he is saying is what the top  wants to do, what we are facing is what is happening on the ground, it happens to every big organization, same same everywhere.

There are like thousands, if not tens of thousands of ppl involve in the whole system, and not everyone can follow a new system well, 有人的地方就会有是非 mah. 

 

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There's also negative keywords like I mentioned above. Some words supposedly demonstrate wrong concept. 

I don't complain about the marking. 

But I do get Wind30 point that he say keywords are crucial. The principal is just saying the PC answer that keywords are only the proxy to demonstrate conceptual understanding. None of us here refute that. 

Edited March 29, 2024 by Lala81

[Stary]

I have no skin in the PSLE game and has zero idea of what the schools are teaching these days.

But wah low eh...since when did science test became  like a SEO (Search engine optimization) test?

The last time I deal with keywords was when studying for a web development and SEO course....😁

Edited March 29, 2024 by Starry

[Invigorated]

  On 3/28/2024 at 9:32 PM, Wind30 said:

Exactly. I am glad someone else had the same experience else people would think it is just my daughter school. I did not think of going down as I thought the school had my girls interest in that psle marking scheme also follow keywords. I just “fixed” the problem and followed the system although I disagreed with it. 
 

That is why I feel the chief marker is just “wayanging” , saying nice words on tv that is totally different from what is happening in schools. 
 

When she got into RI, her math paper got even more ridiculous. I think 80% of the marks she lost were for questions she got totally right but “wrong” presentation… my time method marks were given because your answer were wrong, and teachers don’t want to give zero. You were almost always guaranteed full marks of the answer was right…

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Though not many of us would really appreciate your attempt to humble brag here, but an involved parent would usually know that their girls go to rgs and boys to ri. 

I'm unsure why you may have gotten so heated up and personal with the chief marker. It is to the benefit of our students that aside from keywords, the markers also look at answers more holistically. Of course, teachers will emphasise keywords as it's the most direct way of getting the marks and avoids ambiguity. The chief setter is saying that even in the presence of ambiguity, the student may be able to get the marks if the responses still show a clear understanding of the concept. 

There are baby steps taken to change the education system now, such as the removal of the normal, normal tech and express stream. Removal of o levels for IP students which happened some time back. Removal of mid year exams for many levels.. and so on.. The system is making changes gradually to prevent shocks to students and parents and tho it's far from perfect, the changes will still benefit students more in the new one that the older ones we were all accustomed to. 

It's always easy to criticise but to be able to implement and execute seamlessly is a different skill altogether imho.

[Lala81]

I only started my current p6 kid on 1 enrichment class in last term of p5. 

And I teach all the other parts. Like currently I'm working on my girl's weak point. Chinese writing. 

So this science answering is particularly tricky for kids...

Without the benefit of access to science teachers or tuition, I personally have spent tens of hours trying to decipher answering methodologies and find out what they want and don't want. Keywords certainly is the linchpin of the answers.

My  advice to friends and family is that unless you really know the psle science syllabus and answering methods well, I won't advise most parents to teach them yourselves. So hire a tutor or send to TLL etc. 

Given that I've taught my girl everything, I would rank the 3 most difficult aspects to self tutor (laopeh Lao bu act as tutor),

1. Creative writing English

2. Creative writing Chinese 

3. Science 

Despite the annual hoohah about psle math, it's probably the only subject that most tertiary educated parents can help their kids with provided they bother to find out more. Especially since there are Facebook groups and easy to get prelim papers. Even got YouTube tutorials on famous questions. 

[Lala81]

Now learning how naive I've been with my girls learning journey, I've enrolled my p3 son into both creative writing classes. 

Cos I can settle psle science and math for him.

My nephew is p3 as well. I told my sis, p4 straight away sign him up for science enrichment. 

Cos u need to have a good base to identify the various concepts which questions are based upon. The variety of questions is too many for the kids to mug the answers. 

This age their mugging ability also not really there yet. 

[Ender]

  On 3/29/2024 at 7:31 AM, Lala81 said:

Now learning how naive I've been with my girls learning journey, I've enrolled my p3 son into both creative writing classes. 

Cos I can settle psle science and math for him.

My nephew is p3 as well. I told my sis, p4 straight away sign him up for science enrichment. 

Cos u need to have a good base to identify the various concepts which questions are based upon. The variety of questions is too many for the kids to mug the answers. 

This age their mugging ability also not really there yet. 

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Same here, Math and Science home tutored by me. Science is till her P6 after some session MU with her science teacher, that I think I myself memorise all the important keywords.  English and Chinese leave to the enrichment classes. 

 

I thought my home tutor days are over,, my girls received and 1st term sec3 results. Chem and not doing well.  I think I need to start googling on chemistry.. But it's a topic I myself am not good.  Why no PE exams, I can teach them how to apply 80/20  exercises, how different intensity utilize different energy system.

Edited March 29, 2024 by Ender

[Wind30]

  On 3/29/2024 at 7:41 AM, Ender said:

Same here, Math and Science home tutored by me. Science is till her P6 after some session MU with her science teacher, that I think I myself memorise all the important keywords.  English and Chinese leave to the enrichment classes. 

 

I thought my home tutor days are over,, my girls received and 1st term sec3 results. Chem and not doing well.  I think I need to start googling on chemistry.. But it's a topic I myself am not good.  Why no PE exams, I can teach them how to apply 80/20  exercises, how different intensity utilize different energy system.

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Sec 3 stuff is no joke…. My daughter did badly in sec three last year but I can’t tutor her anymore. She has to pull herself up. Her sec4 1st term results is much better and hopefully it continues…. 

[Stary]

  On 3/29/2024 at 7:28 AM, Lala81 said:

I only started my current p6 kid on 1 enrichment class in last term of p5. 

And I teach all the other parts. Like currently I'm working on my girl's weak point. Chinese writing. 

So this science answering is particularly tricky for kids...

Without the benefit of access to science teachers or tuition, I personally have spent tens of hours trying to decipher answering methodologies and find out what they want and don't want. Keywords certainly is the linchpin of the answers.

My  advice to friends and family is that unless you really know the psle science syllabus and answering methods well, I won't advise most parents to teach them yourselves. So hire a tutor or send to TLL etc. 

Given that I've taught my girl everything, I would rank the 3 most difficult aspects to self tutor (laopeh Lao bu act as tutor),

1. Creative writing English

2. Creative writing Chinese 

3. Science 

Despite the annual hoohah about psle math, it's probably the only subject that most tertiary educated parents can help their kids with provided they bother to find out more. Especially since there are Facebook groups and easy to get prelim papers. Even got YouTube tutorials on famous questions. 

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Creative English writing.............can ask ChatGPT for ideas?

The LLMs (Large Language models) are best at this stuff.  

Nowadays, when I am stuck in my coding  , I use ChatGPT for ideas.  😄

Edited March 29, 2024 by Starry

[Wind30]

  On 3/29/2024 at 6:47 AM, Invigorated said:

Though not many of us would really appreciate your attempt to humble brag here, but an involved parent would usually know that their girls go to rgs and boys to ri. 

I'm unsure why you may have gotten so heated up and personal with the chief marker. It is to the benefit of our students that aside from keywords, the markers also look at answers more holistically. Of course, teachers will emphasise keywords as it's the most direct way of getting the marks and avoids ambiguity. The chief setter is saying that even in the presence of ambiguity, the student may be able to get the marks if the responses still show a clear understanding of the concept. 

There are baby steps taken to change the education system now, such as the removal of the normal, normal tech and express stream. Removal of o levels for IP students which happened some time back. Removal of mid year exams for many levels.. and so on.. The system is making changes gradually to prevent shocks to students and parents and tho it's far from perfect, the changes will still benefit students more in the new one that the older ones we were all accustomed to. 

It's always easy to criticise but to be able to implement and execute seamlessly is a different skill altogether imho.

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Did you watch the video? I have no beef about the push for less emphasis on keywords but honestly, I don’t think it’s possible in a standardised exam. My main beef is that he makes it sound like everything is fine, u write in your own words you will get marks, the cause is because of misunderstanding from tuition, external classes teachers.
i don’t think so… the primary schools themselves are focusing on keywords, at least it was 3 years ago when I “took” psle science. My girl primary school themselves are drilling those keywords which is a direct contradiction of what this guy is saying on tv. 
 

[Invigorated]

  On 3/29/2024 at 8:03 AM, Wind30 said:

Did you watch the video? I have no beef about the push for less emphasis on keywords but honestly, I don’t think it’s possible in a standardised exam. My main beef is that he makes it sound like everything is fine, u write in your own words you will get marks, the cause is because of misunderstanding from tuition, external classes teachers.
i don’t think so… the primary schools themselves are focusing on keywords, at least it was 3 years ago when I “took” psle science. My girl primary school themselves are drilling those keywords which is a direct contradiction of what this guy is saying on tv. 
 

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I have watched the video and also read the cna article on it. My point remains the same. 

I do find it hard to understand you. 

First, u have mentioned that u take offence that your girls RGS math paper requires her to rigidly present her work and implied that it's 'ridiculous' they didn't exercise more flexibility.. so u want flexibility..

Now when the CM acknowledged that they exercise more flexibility in awarding marks.. u come up with..

"I have no beef about the push for less emphasis on keywords but honestly, I don’t think it’s possible in a standardised exam." That they should stick to keywords..

Huh?!?! If u support flexibility, shouldn't you be praising the CM for doing so instead of name-calling him?

This is like what theoldjaffa said, some parents really think they know everything and want everything.. okay I get it, you only want things when it benefits you. 

[Ender]

  On 3/29/2024 at 7:50 AM, Wind30 said:

Sec 3 stuff is no joke…. My daughter did badly in sec three last year but I can’t tutor her anymore. She has to pull herself up. Her sec4 1st term results is much better and hopefully it continues…. 

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Just now, after lunch , I look thru her exam paper.. Only know one multiple choice question, the rest I cmi.  I will be relying on Edge's Copilot and Google Germini.. See how first.

[Ender]

  On 3/29/2024 at 8:40 AM, Invigorated said:

I have watched the video and also read the cna article on it. My point remains the same. 

I do find it hard to understand you. 

First, u have mentioned that u take offence that your girls RGS math paper requires her to rigidly present her work and implied that it's 'ridiculous' they didn't exercise more flexibility.. so u want flexibility..

Now when the CM acknowledged that they exercise more flexibility in awarding marks.. u come up with..

"I have no beef about the push for less emphasis on keywords but honestly, I don’t think it’s possible in a standardised exam." That they should stick to keywords..

Huh?!?! If u support flexibility, shouldn't you be praising the CM for doing so instead of name-calling him?

This is like what theoldjaffa said, some parents really think they know everything and want everything.. okay I get it, you only want things when it benefits you. 

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I think he is saying CM doesn't know that keyword is still the thing that his markers look out for. And myself, I find CM doesn't realise when he used 'Heat gain' and 'water vapor' in his example of a student showing understanding of concept, he is literally using the important keywords that I have drilled it into my son and daughter. 

[Wind30]

  On 3/29/2024 at 8:40 AM, Invigorated said:

I have watched the video and also read the cna article on it. My point remains the same. 

I do find it hard to understand you. 

First, u have mentioned that u take offence that your girls RGS math paper requires her to rigidly present her work and implied that it's 'ridiculous' they didn't exercise more flexibility.. so u want flexibility..

Now when the CM acknowledged that they exercise more flexibility in awarding marks.. u come up with..

"I have no beef about the push for less emphasis on keywords but honestly, I don’t think it’s possible in a standardised exam." That they should stick to keywords..

Huh?!?! If u support flexibility, shouldn't you be praising the CM for doing so instead of name-calling him?

This is like what theoldjaffa said, some parents really think they know everything and want everything.. okay I get it, you only want things when it benefits you. 

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benefits me??? in what way this benefits me??? That is the part I never understand in online forums.

When I argue for more benefits for having babies, people think I am planning to start a soccer team... when our production line is shut many years ago. Some people never stick to the things being discussed and always assume things about the other parties. 

When I bring up points on both sides, people get confused but in every argument/issue there is ALWAYS both sides and you will do well to consider both. I see the reason behind keywords in a nationwide standardised exams, but I don't see a good enough reason for penalising students in the "top" secondary school for taking shortcuts in presentations the regular school maths tests. If the answer is wrong without working in a math exam, give the student zero. If he/she can give the answer with 2 lines of working, why penalise the kid?

... unless you think I am sore about those marks my girl lost in presentation in Sec 1??? I did not even scold her. I told her well done after I saw her paper and saw she got almost all the answers correct but she got like 75%. I don't really care about the 75%.

 Last year, I scolded her for sec 3 math paper because I saw she couldn't do the first question and then it affected the rest of the paper. quite a few of the answers were wrong... 

Edited March 29, 2024 by Wind30

[D3badge]

  On 3/28/2024 at 9:33 AM, Inlinefour said:

guess they just have to make sure that cotton cannot harvest from sheep before launching of new syllabus 🙈🙉🙊

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Guys, please give chance ! ☺️

Edited March 30, 2024 by D3badge

[Throttle2]

  On 3/29/2024 at 4:42 AM, Benarsenal said:

He is chief marker leh. He oversees all the markers.

I think he has more credibility than you.

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I want to speak up for Wind30 here.

Since Wind30 networth higher than chief marker, i think Wind30 has more credibility leh.....

Muayhahhahhah

[Throttle2]

  On 3/30/2024 at 2:08 AM, D3badge said:

Guys, please give chance ! ☺️

 

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Although this girl isnt exactly a kid kid but she still gave him an honest direct comment.

CCS kena tekan and he has to swallow his pride since he was indeed wrong.  give him some points there

He didnt ask her, are your parents teachers or do they work in MOE?  heh heh heh

 

 

Edited March 30, 2024 by Throttle2

[Wind30]

  On 3/30/2024 at 2:08 AM, D3badge said:

Guys, please give chance ! ☺️

 

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Wow u actually found the cut clip…