No one wants used EVs, making new ones a tougher sell too

[Beregond]

On 12/12/2024 at 9:26 AM, boonhat_91 said:

good guy/lady, at least they fly away. Hate those drivers who happen to be in front of you and switch lane at the same time, then proceed to hog.

speaking of hoggers, surprising that the byd had enough runway to fly far away.

Ya. Lane 1 is clear. We both had the same ideal. And both switch at the same time. Most of the time I can catch up.

But if EV driver really wack. The different is very very obvious.  Esp if got turbo lag. That split sec. They already gone.

Tested a few EV. Not seal yet. That pick up is addictive.  Esp if u are a spirit driver.

But then undercarriage also important. Posh ev drive better then Tesla3 despite having a smaller hp.

 

[Lethalstrike]

On 12/12/2024 at 10:04 AM, Beregond said:

Ya. Lane 1 is clear. We both had the same ideal. And both switch at the same time. Most of the time I can catch up.

But if EV driver really wack. The different is very very obvious.  Esp if got turbo lag. That split sec. They already gone.

Tested a few EV. Not seal yet. That pick up is addictive.  Esp if u are a spirit driver.

But then undercarriage also important. Posh ev drive better then Tesla3 despite having a smaller hp.

While what you said is especially true within Singapore's context where acceleration is all that matters, I have to inform you that EVs on North-South Highway will be bullied by high powered petrol engines due to limited top speed and super-high electric consumption once you cruise at >140km/h 😆

EVs are only good for the fast acceleration from a stand-still. Sustained high speed runs they all cannot make it. 

[2wiremodem]

On 12/12/2024 at 4:31 PM, Lethalstrike said:

While what you said is especially true within Singapore's context where acceleration is all that matters, I have to inform you that EVs on North-South Highway will be bullied by high powered petrol engines due to limited top speed and super-high electric consumption once you cruise at >140km/h 😆

EVs are only good for the fast acceleration from a stand-still. Sustained high speed runs they all cannot make it. 

Is this statement still true with latest EVs that has huge battery packs and improved efficiency?

[ER-3682]

On 12/12/2024 at 10:34 PM, 2wiremodem said:

Is this statement still true with latest EVs that has huge battery packs and improved efficiency?

Depends on how you drive...

[serenade]

In the old days, there was a saying : " Any idiot can drive fast in a straight line. It takes balls and skill to be able to go very fast round bends."

To put this into the context of EV discussion, is there a driver's car EV, that can flung round a series of bends? Real world cars for the common man and not the Taycan or Lotus EV. In the ICE world there were the AE86, WRX, LGT, Golf, 850R, Focus, Mini, BMW 3-series and 5-series. Good handling and good brakes on mass market cars that can carry 4 in comfort.

So far no one has come out to say that their BYD Seal/3 or Tesla is great round corners.  Physics says that heavy cars (EV battery is very heavy) with high inertia will not be nimble. 

Is there a driver's car EV at real world price ($110k COE withstanding) that can carry 4 in comfort on the market now? 

 

[RadX]

On 12/13/2024 at 9:59 AM, serenade said:

In the old days, there was a saying : " Any idiot can drive fast in a straight line. It takes balls and skill to be able to go very fast round bends."

To put this into the context of EV discussion, is there a driver's car EV, that can flung round a series of bends? Real world cars for the common man and not the Taycan or Lotus EV. In the ICE world there were the AE86, WRX, LGT, Golf, 850R, Focus, Mini, BMW 3-series and 5-series. Good handling and good brakes on mass market cars that can carry 4 in comfort.

So far no one has come out to say that their BYD Seal/3 or Tesla is great round corners.  Physics says that heavy cars (EV battery is very heavy) with high inertia will not be nimble. 

Is there a driver's car EV at real world price ($110k COE withstanding) that can carry 4 in comfort on the market now? 

 

For corners mx5 rocks…Still miss

my manual 987 tho…and of cos theres BMW 😂

[inlinesix]

On 12/12/2024 at 10:34 PM, 2wiremodem said:

Is this statement still true with latest EVs that has huge battery packs and improved efficiency?

On 12/13/2024 at 9:08 AM, ER-3682 said:

Depends on how you drive...

Maybe Taycan can sustain high speed driving.  it has a 2 spd GB.

Edited December 13, 2024 by inlinesix

[Unltd]

On 12/13/2024 at 9:59 AM, serenade said:

In the old days, there was a saying : " Any idiot can drive fast in a straight line. It takes balls and skill to be able to go very fast round bends."

To put this into the context of EV discussion, is there a driver's car EV, that can flung round a series of bends? Real world cars for the common man and not the Taycan or Lotus EV. In the ICE world there were the AE86, WRX, LGT, Golf, 850R, Focus, Mini, BMW 3-series and 5-series. Good handling and good brakes on mass market cars that can carry 4 in comfort.

So far no one has come out to say that their BYD Seal/3 or Tesla is great round corners.  Physics says that heavy cars (EV battery is very heavy) with high inertia will not be nimble. 

Is there a driver's car EV at real world price ($110k COE withstanding) that can carry 4 in comfort on the market now? 

 

From a technical angle based on CG, EV is more grounded and stable. So if you do a like for like with an EV round corners, it should actually corner better and is much less prone to rolling over.

Again, you must compare equivalent makes to make it a better comparison.

[Lala81]

On 12/12/2024 at 3:31 AM, Koster said:

Tesla said those are unsold ones? Can't it be those are all sold awaiting delivery?

There's no waiting time for any tesla vehicle now. 

You can buy a cybertruck within 1-2 weeks of pre-order. When they launched, the pre-orders stretched a few years. After production started, now the people ordering can get one within 2 weeks.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2024 by Lala81

[serenade]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:01 AM, Unltd said:

From a technical angle based on CG, EV is more grounded and stable. So if you do a like for like with an EV round corners, it should actually corner better and is much less prone to rolling over.

Again, you must compare equivalent makes to make it a better comparison.

True and agree. However, at the limit and when I lose an EV the extra mass means that there is more inertia and it will be harder for me to correct and save the car. At least this is what the law of physics tells me. Or push and EV a series of S bends where the car needs to change direction quickly.

Can someone who has pushed his "normal" EV round a series of corners at speed chip in and comment.

[RadX]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:15 AM, serenade said:

True and agree. However, at the limit and when I lose an EV the extra mass means that there is more inertia and it will be harder for me to correct and save the car. At least this is what the law of physics tells me. Or push and EV a series of S bends where the car needs to change direction quickly.

Can someone who has pushed his "normal" EV round a series of corners at speed chip in and comment.

Taking the i4 and the Byd seal (not 3.8) round SBV is a whole different feel altogether. With the i4, like any other BMW gripping the tarmac but Byd u can feel the handling, or lack of, grossly inadequate. That with the retarded 0.5s lag in the throttle response.

 

i5 , heavier and not as nimble as i4 but u still feel that confidence in pushing the corners 

[RadX]

The seal however is great for those who have not had any exposure to the other great handlers and many mercs have converted over too. Even those on Lexus is250, which imo is a great handling ride too.

 

sth not right and perhaps the suspension tweak could alleviate that lack of “feel”

[Lethalstrike]

On 12/12/2024 at 10:34 PM, 2wiremodem said:

Is this statement still true with latest EVs that has huge battery packs and improved efficiency?

Huge battery packs are a mask to hide efficiency deficiencies and to increase theoretical range. Having a huge pack also adds weight and costs. I personally don't believe this is the only way forward to address the lack of range. 

99% of the EVs you can buy here in Singapore today are running on a single speed gearbox. That alone limits their top speed to the common 160km/h, 180km/h, sub 230km/h. Maybe except Porsche Taycan and Audi e-Tron GT have 2-speed gearboxes capable of higher than 230km/h, but these aren't exactly your everyday man's performance EVs.

Closest to affordability today and yet with high performance is probably the latest Model 3 Performance AWD that still runs a single-speed gb, but has an optimized reduction gear ratio which allows up to 260km/h. Even though this is a variant optimised for performance, it cannot do sustained and aggressive high speed track runs. Battery and brakes overheats and car's software auto throttle down into protection mode to cut max power. It's still a joke of a performance pack by Tesla. 

 

[Lethalstrike]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:22 AM, RadX said:

Taking the i4 and the Byd seal (not 3.8) round SBV is a whole different feel altogether. With the i4, like any other BMW gripping the tarmac but Byd u can feel the handling, or lack of, grossly inadequate. That with the retarded 0.5s lag in the throttle response.

 

i5 , heavier and not as nimble as i4 but u still feel that confidence in pushing the corners 

That is the dark art of chassis/suspension dynamics. Chinese automakers who are serious in their craft are paying $$$ to poach this expertise from the western manufacturers. 

[Unltd]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:15 AM, serenade said:

True and agree. However, at the limit and when I lose an EV the extra mass means that there is more inertia and it will be harder for me to correct and save the car. At least this is what the law of physics tells me. Or push and EV a series of S bends where the car needs to change direction quickly.

Can someone who has pushed his "normal" EV round a series of corners at speed chip in and comment.

Agree on the inertia part, actually this is already largely mitigated by the low CG and actually the weight grounds the car too. I guess to counteract this, you need to add grippier tyres.

Also, I am still not an EV person, I don’t have the patience to charge and don’t stay at a place where the chargers will not be hogged (or I wouldn’t hog it)

[inlinesix]

it will be interesting to see the comparison btw Mini Cooper S and Mini Cooper SE.

Weight different is 300kg while hp different is 10hp.

[bsswan]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:35 AM, Unltd said:

Agree on the inertia part, actually this is already largely mitigated by the low CG and actually the weight grounds the car too. I guess to counteract this, you need to add grippier tyres.

Also, I am still not an EV person, I don’t have the patience to charge and don’t stay at a place where the chargers will not be hogged (or I wouldn’t hog it)

Well, there's your problem right there......grippier types.

One, I know you appreciate already EV come, typically, with lower rolling-road-resistance rubber to maximize theoretical range but I've said before, my tyre guy at the office is typically changing EV tyres at just 8-months, 6-8k kms. EV have enormous acceleration and torque, but I can bet tyres are NEVER in the window for spirited driving as they're nerfed from 10min down the road.

I will await SSB technology, check charging tech and times before re-thinking EV, but at the moment I don't like charging times or the amount of heavy metals used.

They could do with toning down power/torque to sensible levels to maximize battery and tyre health. Harry's Garage YT tested a new electric Macan a few weeks back, totally fierce, and stupid. Even with 4WD I think it will kill faster than their famed widow-maker.

[mersaylee]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:22 AM, RadX said:

Taking the i4 and the Byd seal (not 3.8) round SBV is a whole different feel altogether. With the i4, like any other BMW gripping the tarmac but Byd u can feel the handling, or lack of, grossly inadequate. That with the retarded 0.5s lag in the throttle response.

 

i5 , heavier and not as nimble as i4 but u still feel that confidence in pushing the corners 

Donch try hor...donch want one ayam curry party from you...yet😁

Surely ah bengs will move from beng beemer to beng ev...let them find out the sure way or hard way... 😂