No one wants used EVs, making new ones a tougher sell too

[leftturn]

Chinese EV vs non-Chinese EV...

Is just like buying a phone. Chinese phones like Xiaomi and Oppo provide abundance of features beyond what is provided by American brands like Google and Apple, despite having a lower price tag on their flagship phones.

But if you ever owned a Chinese flagship phone, you know there are a lot of kinks to the phone, such as a buggy UI, software functions that is not well integrated or customized to the local market, and somehow even with a 200MP camera with all the extra camera features like additonal AI processing etc., generates photos that look substantially mediocre to what mid-range Samsung, Google and Apple phones produces.

My own personal experience when I test drove the BYD Atto 3 early last year when I was considering a hybrid or electric crossover. The gigantic touchscreen display hanged twice when I was test driving, making me unable to operate the climate controls and also view the camera when reversing to park. The SE had to brush this incident off.

There is always a trade off between price and quality especially in the entry-level segment. Features can be thrown in dime a dozen, but how well it executes and integrated with the car, and how useful these features are beyond being a gimmick is another point of consideration.

FYI, anyone with minimal experience can easily startup a EV company, 'develop' and manufacture a working EV product all within two years in China. Even domestically, buyers face issues when getting these companies to honor their warranty, and even to service/repair their cars even when they are willing to self pay. Just to save like 20 to 30k depreciated over 10 years, i find this trade-off not worth it. Just top up abit more and get your cars from the more reputable and established brand.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:21 PM by leftturn

[Heartlander]

On 1/9/2025 at 7:07 AM, leftturn said:

Chinese EV vs non-Chinese EV...

Is just like buying a phone. Chinese phones like Xiaomi and Oppo provide abundance of features beyond what is provided by American brands like Google and Apple, despite having a lower price tag on their flagship phones.

But if you ever owned a Chinese flagship phone, you know there are a lot of kinks to the phone, such as a buggy UI, software functions that is not well integrated or customized to the local market, and somehow even with a 200MP camera with all the extra camera features like additonal AI processing etc., generates photos that look substantially mediocre to what mid-range Samsung, Google and Apple phones produces.

My own personal experience when I test drove the BYD Atto 3 early last year when I was considering a hybrid or electric crossover. The gigantic touchscreen display hanged twice when I was test driving, making me unable to operate the climate controls and also view the camera when reversing to park. The SE had to brush this incident off.

There is always a trade off between price and quality especially in the entry-level segment. Features can be thrown in dime a dozen, but how well it executes and integrated with the car, and how useful these features are beyond being a gimmick is another point of consideration.

FYI, anyone with minimal experience can easily startup a EV company, 'develop' and manufacture a working EV product all within two years in China. Even domestically, buyers face issues when getting these companies to honor their warranty, and even to service/repair their cars even when they are willing to self pay. Just to save like 20 to 30k depreciated over 10 years, i find this trade-off not worth it. Just top up abit more and get your cars from the more reputable and established brand.

Well said but you are going to offend alot of Chinese EV fanboys here haha. 

I concur with your Chinese handphone sharings. Personally I have owned Xiaomi foldable phone recently and currently using Oppo foldable phone now, among another 2 Chinese brand phones over the years. Really even if you pay top dollars for their flagship model, bugs are still to be expected here and there once in awhile unlike midrange Samsung phones that would be very stable.

And no choice with the current trend, my next car would most likely be an EV, else another hybrid. Definitely not getting another ICE car although new Freed looks tempting. Still can wait and see, still got 6 years left so in no hurry. To a large extent is waiting for battery technology to have breakthrough instead of just constant talking and announcements but nothing to show. If solid state batteries start to be offered in mass market cars becoming the norm, I would definitely be pulling the trigger, but not the current 500km range situation now. I really have range anxiety issue and became tired just listening to my colleague sharing how his road trip to KL went with constant monitoring of the range and stopping to charge here and there just to make sure the car does not stall somewhere if get caught in heavy jams, which is real around KL. You can make it sound cool that you take the chance to do grocery shopping to kill the 30min charging time, but really that is no choice self-consolation kind of argument. I still prefer to enjoy driving and lesser thing to worry just 放空 relax knowing that my 1000km range is good enough for the trip, and topping up for another 1000km is just another 5minute effort haha.

[Tohto]

On 1/9/2025 at 8:21 AM, Heartlander said:

Well said but you are going to offend alot of Chinese EV fanboys here haha. 

I concur with your Chinese handphone sharings. Personally I have owned Xiaomi foldable phone recently and currently using Oppo foldable phone now, among another 2 Chinese brand phones over the years. Really even if you pay top dollars for their flagship model, bugs are still to be expected here and there once in awhile unlike midrange Samsung phones that would be very stable.

And no choice with the current trend, my next car would most likely be an EV, else another hybrid. Definitely not getting another ICE car although new Freed looks tempting. Still can wait and see, still got 6 years left so in no hurry. To a large extent is waiting for battery technology to have breakthrough instead of just constant talking and announcements but nothing to show. If solid state batteries start to be offered in mass market cars becoming the norm, I would definitely be pulling the trigger, but not the current 500km range situation now. I really have range anxiety issue and became tired just listening to my colleague sharing how his road trip to KL went with constant monitoring of the range and stopping to charge here and there just to make sure the car does not stall somewhere if get caught in heavy jams, which is real around KL. You can make it sound cool that you take the chance to do grocery shopping to kill the 30min charging time, but really that is no choice self-consolation kind of argument. I still prefer to enjoy driving and lesser thing to worry just 放空 relax knowing that my 1000km range is good enough for the trip, and topping up for another 1000km is just another 5minute effort haha.

Realĺy sad that our stupid scholars policy are killing all the newer PHEV model. 

[Volvobrick]

On 1/9/2025 at 8:42 AM, Tohto said:

Realĺy sad that our stupid scholars policy are killing all the newer PHEV model. 

Why? Their objective is to maximise revenues. 

[Battledome64]

When I look at the LTA cost of registration it appears that BYD dealers margin is $90k?

is it because of the upfront ARF deduction (55k) to almost zero being absorbed by them? 90k margin is serious business lol. Even the German marques earn around $60k margin 

[13177]

On 1/9/2025 at 6:55 AM, ER-3682 said:

This JT Aged alot,earned so much Money,never find Jean Yip,for Facial.?

Which minister or full minister does not aged a lot after they have become minister liao?

I think even she has so much money but maybe no mood and time to go for facial. You know doing facial needs time de.

[13177]

On 1/9/2025 at 7:07 AM, leftturn said:

Chinese EV vs non-Chinese EV...

Is just like buying a phone. Chinese phones like Xiaomi and Oppo provide abundance of features beyond what is provided by American brands like Google and Apple, despite having a lower price tag on their flagship phones.

But if you ever owned a Chinese flagship phone, you know there are a lot of kinks to the phone, such as a buggy UI, software functions that is not well integrated or customized to the local market, and somehow even with a 200MP camera with all the extra camera features like additonal AI processing etc., generates photos that look substantially mediocre to what mid-range Samsung, Google and Apple phones produces.

My own personal experience when I test drove the BYD Atto 3 early last year when I was considering a hybrid or electric crossover. The gigantic touchscreen display hanged twice when I was test driving, making me unable to operate the climate controls and also view the camera when reversing to park. The SE had to brush this incident off.

There is always a trade off between price and quality especially in the entry-level segment. Features can be thrown in dime a dozen, but how well it executes and integrated with the car, and how useful these features are beyond being a gimmick is another point of consideration.

FYI, anyone with minimal experience can easily startup a EV company, 'develop' and manufacture a working EV product all within two years in China. Even domestically, buyers face issues when getting these companies to honor their warranty, and even to service/repair their cars even when they are willing to self pay. Just to save like 20 to 30k depreciated over 10 years, i find this trade-off not worth it. Just top up abit more and get your cars from the more reputable and established brand.

Maybe this is why BYD is giving 10 year free battery and servicing. Lol.

Atto 3 is selling like hot cakes, if the car quality no good, then curious to know why so many people are buying this car? 😅

[ER-3682]

On 1/9/2025 at 9:28 AM, 13177 said:

Which minister or full minister does not aged a lot after they have become minister liao?

I think even she has so much money but maybe no mood and time to go for facial. You know doing facial needs time de.

Men aged still alright,Women aged damm ugly if don't take care...esp their Face.

[steveting99]

On 1/9/2025 at 7:07 AM, leftturn said:

Chinese EV vs non-Chinese EV...

Is just like buying a phone. Chinese phones like Xiaomi and Oppo provide abundance of features beyond what is provided by American brands like Google and Apple, despite having a lower price tag on their flagship phones.

But if you ever owned a Chinese flagship phone, you know there are a lot of kinks to the phone, such as a buggy UI, software functions that is not well integrated or customized to the local market, and somehow even with a 200MP camera with all the extra camera features like additonal AI processing etc., generates photos that look substantially mediocre to what mid-range Samsung, Google and Apple phones produces.

My own personal experience when I test drove the BYD Atto 3 early last year when I was considering a hybrid or electric crossover. The gigantic touchscreen display hanged twice when I was test driving, making me unable to operate the climate controls and also view the camera when reversing to park. The SE had to brush this incident off.

There is always a trade off between price and quality especially in the entry-level segment. Features can be thrown in dime a dozen, but how well it executes and integrated with the car, and how useful these features are beyond being a gimmick is another point of consideration.

FYI, anyone with minimal experience can easily startup a EV company, 'develop' and manufacture a working EV product all within two years in China. Even domestically, buyers face issues when getting these companies to honor their warranty, and even to service/repair their cars even when they are willing to self pay. Just to save like 20 to 30k depreciated over 10 years, i find this trade-off not worth it. Just top up abit more and get your cars from the more reputable and established brand.

 

 

 

leftturn, great to see you here in this thread!

The global market in which vehicle manufacturers participate is a zero sum game. A sale to EV means one lost sale to an ICE vehicle and this bad news for the ICE dinosaur manufacturers. Think of Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Volkswagan, Stellantis, etc.  

I've attached a slide from Bloomberg on the number of EV sales worldwide - the growth is remarkable. This should keep the ICE dinosaurs awake at night thinking about how bleak a future their sales will be. A few things to note. (1) China is by far the big dog, followed by Europe and North America. Record number of EVs are expected to be sold in 2024 - awaiting for numbers to come through. 

[Ginyu]

On 1/10/2025 at 8:37 AM, steveting99 said:

leftturn, great to see you here in this thread!

The global market in which vehicle manufacturers participate is a zero sum game. A sale to EV means one lost sale to an ICE vehicle and this bad news for the ICE dinosaur manufacturers. Think of Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Volkswagan, Stellantis, etc.  

I've attached a slide from Bloomberg on the number of EV sales worldwide - the growth is remarkable. This should keep the ICE dinosaurs awake at night thinking about how bleak a future their sales will be. A few things to note. (1) China is by far the big dog, followed by Europe and North America. Record number of EVs are expected to be sold in 2024 - awaiting for numbers to come through. 

Even toyota is feeling the pinch now. Chinese EVs or Tesla outsold their Camrys in other parts of the world

Got some say may be the next Nissan 

The situation for the Germans is not good either

Edited Friday at 01:28 AM by Ginyu

[13177]

On 1/9/2025 at 9:42 AM, ER-3682 said:

Men aged still alright,Women aged damm ugly if don't take care...esp their Face.

When aged also not easy to take care your face not to look old le.

[inlinesix]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:38 AM, 13177 said:

When aged also not easy to take care your face not to look old le.

There is lazy women

There is no ugly women

😂

[ER-3682]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:42 AM, inlinesix said:

There is lazy women

There is no ugly women

😂

Got Money,can employ People Make Up for you,Everyday.

[Ginyu]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:18 AM, Ginyu said:

Even toyota is feeling the pinch now. Chinese EVs or Tesla outsold their Camrys in other parts of the world

Got some say may be the next Nissan 

The situation for the Germans is not good either

Wonder if they are doing the same for the local dealers here🤣

Edited Friday at 02:43 AM by Ginyu

[ER-3682]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:38 AM, 13177 said:

When aged also not easy to take care your face not to look old le.

Everyday take Bird Nests.

[Arogab]

It is not just EVs alone. Iphones, Watches, LV, Hermes all you can name it. It goes one big round until you turn back to EVs.

As a matter of fact, these Chinese are still looking at face values and buying thoses branded brands. 

Wait till one day they all says, we need to be really supporting our own country brands and the rest dies. 

As far as I know, our Chinese counterparts are making money, they are making money more than some Singaporeans already. But they are still on Iphones, LVs, Hermes, branded Swiss watches and Tesla and so and so. 

So, one of these days, if Xi Dada can really convince all of their people. Many brands will die.

I have one super good friend in China that is always shouting "zhu guo is good, zhu guo is greatest". But he is still buying MB and BMW. Haha

Huawei is the only one changing this perspective and this is why they are targeted by the US. Maybe now BYD and soon CATL/ATL.

Until the batteries are stable and not changing or upgrading. The EV will then become stable I think. Just my 2 cents worth

[inlinesix]

On 1/10/2025 at 10:57 AM, Arogab said:

I have one super good friend in China that is always shouting "zhu guo is good, zhu guo is greatest". But he is still buying MB and BMW. Haha

He buy 合资车.

Not imported right?

😂

[mersaylee]

On 1/9/2025 at 9:17 AM, Volvobrick said:

Why? Their objective is to maximise revenues. 

To retire in marine parade or malaysia or malibu depends on it...😁