COE Bidding - December 2023

[Koster]

On 1/21/2024 at 10:41 AM, yishunite said:

Yup, its actually salesman bait and switch tactic: Dealer drive COE down one time to bring ppl in who wanted to buy car at lower price but then when COE rebound they alrdy got the dream planted in your head so you suka suka will top up just to keep it alive

Yup I am seriously considering the Seal too. If I were to get it, I'll also opt for 8 bids NG.

[Fitmugen]

On 1/20/2024 at 11:40 PM, Koster said:

If I were u, I won't top up too. What's the worst case scenario? They return u the deposit lor. 

Yeah. At least u committed. So many others think think think but never do anything 

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:50 PM, hansmith said:

Thanks. Basic cost $160,982. 

Selling price $216,000.

Profit margin $55,018.

Note: PARF only $19,400. i.e. you are fuc*ed when you trade in again next time.

Basically, it's the same as what I have been saying earlier for EVs. If electric, buy Tesla in Singapore context because other vendors will want to eat up YOUR tax rebates for buying an EV.

If you don't like Tesla, buy petrol or hybrid. Cheers.

For the basic cost, do you assume the OMV as the actual selling price from BMW Asia to Performance Motors / Eurokars? 

The actual selling prices from principal to distributors can be much higher than what's indicated by the OMVs. So the profits which can be realized by Performance / Eurokars aren't as high as we think. Declaring a lower OMVs is beneficial to the importer (BMW Asia) as they pay less taxes and custom duties to the Singapore govt. One will never know the real profit per car a distributor makes, unless you are an insider. 

How do I know? Let's just say I know someone dealing with all these at Performance Motors. 

Most people will not know this, so I don't blame anyone for taking the OMVs and do a base cost up calculation to derive how much margin the distributor makes. 

Edited January 21, 2024 by Lethalstrike

[inlinesix]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, Lethalstrike said:

For the basic cost, do you assume the OMV as the actual selling price from BMW Asia to Performance Motors / Eurokars? 

The actual selling prices from principal to distributors can be much higher than what's indicated by the OMVs. So the profits which can be realized by Performance / Eurokars aren't as high as we think. Declaring a lower OMVs is beneficial to the importer (BMW Asia) as they pay less taxes and custom duties to the Singapore govt. One will never know the real profit per car a distributor makes, unless you are an insider. 

How do I know? Let's just say I know someone dealing with all these at Performance Motors. 

Most people will not know this, so I don't blame anyone for taking the OMVs and do a base cost up calculation to derive how much margin the distributor makes. 

This is what I have been saying for the longest time.

It is always ignored.

I don’t know any insider.

But I know BMW Asia is the importer.

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:17 PM, inlinesix said:

This is what I have been saying for the longest time.

It is always ignored.

I don’t know any insider.

But I know BMW Asia is the importer.

Anyway, just to add, the profit per car alone isn't much. Also has to factor in basic costs such as salesman commission, pre delivery inspection etc. 

The real meat is coming from aftersales maintenance and repairs, commissions from insurance companies, commissions from the banks working with PML/Eurokars as the customer takes up a loan. Also, there is something known as principal support and incentive. This means when BMW Asia wants both distributors to hit X number of vehicles this quarter, both may just throw prices even at a slight loss per car. However, as long as they achieve BMW Asia's target, BMW Asia will reimburse back per car as a form of support. In other words, throwing $$$ to buy market share. 

Edited January 21, 2024 by Lethalstrike

[Volvobrick]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, Lethalstrike said:

For the basic cost, do you assume the OMV as the actual selling price from BMW Asia to Performance Motors / Eurokars? 

The actual selling prices from principal to distributors can be much higher than what's indicated by the OMVs. So the profits which can be realized by Performance / Eurokars aren't as high as we think. Declaring a lower OMVs is beneficial to the importer (BMW Asia) as they pay less taxes and custom duties to the Singapore govt. One will never know the real profit per car a distributor makes, unless you are an insider. 

How do I know? Let's just say I know someone dealing with all these at Performance Motors. 

Most people will not know this, so I don't blame anyone for taking the OMVs and do a base cost up calculation to derive how much margin the distributor makes. 

Wah that's quite serious accusation about under declaring OMV.  Mr Customs are you reading this?

[ccc888]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:30 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Anyway, just to add, the profit per car alone isn't much. Also has to factor in basic costs such as salesman commission, pre delivery inspection etc. 

The real meat is coming from aftersales maintenance and repairs, commissions from insurance companies, commissions from the banks working with PML/Eurokars as the customer takes up a loan. Also, there is something known as principal support and incentive. This means when BMW Asia wants both distributors to hit X number of vehicles this quarter, both may just throw prices even at a slight loss per car. However, as long as they achieve BMW Asia's target, BMW Asia will reimburse back per car as a form of support. In other words, throwing $$$ to buy market share. 

There is a really alot of overheads and many mouths to feed de.

Showroom so big, rental, electricity bills , guards, cleaners all these also never factored into total basic cost whahaha.

Yes, rebates from bank loan can be quite substantial. (Hearsay 3-6%)

[inlinesix]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:45 PM, ccc888 said:

There is a really alot of overheads and many mouths to feed de.

Showroom so big, rental, electricity bills , guards, cleaners all these also never factored into total basic cost whahaha.

Yes, rebates from bank loan can be quite substantial. (Hearsay 3-6%)

The margin you see covers both Importer and AD.

[Benarsenal]

A lot of 'insiders' here I see...🙊

Edited January 21, 2024 by Benarsenal

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:09 PM, Volvobrick said:

Wah that's quite serious accusation about under declaring OMV.  Mr Customs are you reading this?

It's not under declaring when it's a value coming from the manufacturer itself. Only PIs play punk as importer then will get into trouble 😆

The transfer prices from one business entity to another can also be quite complex, and this isn't under the jurisdiction of our customs anymore. BMW Asia also has it's regional office at Harbourfront with mouths to feed leh. 

Edited January 21, 2024 by Lethalstrike

[hansmith]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, Lethalstrike said:

For the basic cost, do you assume the OMV as the actual selling price from BMW Asia to Performance Motors / Eurokars? 

The actual selling prices from principal to distributors can be much higher than what's indicated by the OMVs. So the profits which can be realized by Performance / Eurokars aren't as high as we think. Declaring a lower OMVs is beneficial to the importer (BMW Asia) as they pay less taxes and custom duties to the Singapore govt. One will never know the real profit per car a distributor makes, unless you are an insider. 

How do I know? Let's just say I know someone dealing with all these at Performance Motors. 

Most people will not know this, so I don't blame anyone for taking the OMVs and do a base cost up calculation to derive how much margin the distributor makes. 

Omv is official government public data. Obviously you use it to calculate.

 

1. The data you mention is not public. Can't be used to calculate anwyay.

2. Underclaring omv amounts to tax evasion and your sentence directly admits this. You source is admitting performance motors and eurokars auto underdeclares omv. It can be reported to iras for investigation.

3. My calculations are correct and based on the exact requirements of Singapore law.

[inlinesix]

On 1/22/2024 at 7:46 AM, hansmith said:

Omv is official government public data. Obviously you use it to calculate.

 

1. The data you mention is not public. Can't be used to calculate anwyay.

2. Underclaring omv amounts to tax evasion and your sentence directly admits this. You source is admitting performance motors and eurokars auto underdeclares omv. It can be reported to iras for investigation.

3. My calculations are correct and based on the exact requirements of Singapore law.

On 1/21/2024 at 9:09 PM, Volvobrick said:

Wah that's quite serious accusation about under declaring OMV.  Mr Customs are you reading this?

Factory sells importer at either FOB or CIF price. That form part of OMV.

Factory and importer have to keep very good documentation to prove price is at arms length.

Importer sells to AD at Margin 1. AD sells to end consumer at Margin 2.
Margin 1 + Margin 2 = Margin seen from public data.

=====================================

PI buys from Overseas Dealers which could raise the question of under-declaration of OMV.

Overseas Retail car price is transparent. Any unreasonable discount provided will be questioned.

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:34 AM, inlinesix said:

Factory sells importer at either FOB or CIF price. That form part of OMV.

Factory and importer have to keep very good documentation to prove price is at arms length.

Importer sells to AD at Margin 1. AD sells to end consumer at Margin 2.
Margin 1 + Margin 2 = Margin seen from public data.

=====================================

PI buys from Overseas Dealers which could raise the question of under-declaration of OMV.

Overseas Retail car price is transparent. Any unreasonable discount provided will be questioned

 

On 1/22/2024 at 7:46 AM, hansmith said:

Omv is official government public data. Obviously you use it to calculate.

 

1. The data you mention is not public. Can't be used to calculate anwyay.

2. Underclaring omv amounts to tax evasion and your sentence directly admits this. You source is admitting performance motors and eurokars auto underdeclares omv. It can be reported to iras for investigation.

3. My calculations are correct and based on the exact requirements of Singapore law.

I know 😊

What i'm trying to say is in response to your earlier post on AD's margins. It really isn't as high as one might think for profits from the car alone based on what is available as public info. And it's not under declaring OMVs. Case in point, also read @inlinesix explanation as quoted above. 

Edited January 22, 2024 by Lethalstrike

[shinkong]

is the Feb-Apr 2024 COE quota gonna to be released soon this week?

 

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:34 AM, inlinesix said:

Factory sells importer at either FOB or CIF price. That form part of OMV.

Factory and importer have to keep very good documentation to prove price is at arms length.

Importer sells to AD at Margin 1. AD sells to end consumer at Margin 2.
Margin 1 + Margin 2 = Margin seen from public data.

=====================================

PI buys from Overseas Dealers which could raise the question of under-declaration of OMV.

Overseas Retail car price is transparent. Any unreasonable discount provided will be questioned.

OMV is what BMW Germany / BMW Asia jointly declare to the Singapore customs with official invoices as proof and declaration to our customs. This is the cost of the base car and can change depending on the specs or options. This will be the base car price on FOB or CIF incoterms. 

However, Margin 1 (as you've mentioned above) is where everyone insinuates that BMW Asia (importer) & PML/EK (dealer) are cheating customs 😂. How much BMW Asia wants to make per car as the manufacturer's margin by transfer prices to PML/EK, has NOTHING to do with base car price aka OMV. 

This is just like main franchisee of 7-Eleven wants to import in a carton of milk at $1. It declares to SG Customs as a value of $1. However, main franchisee can sell to 7-Eleven branches at $1.50. Then each branch sell to the actual customer at $2. 

 

 

 

 

[hansmith]

I will exit from this particular line of this discussion as i don't see any value.

Thanks.

[inlinesix]

On 1/22/2024 at 12:40 PM, yishunite said:

To me that still sounds like tax evasion since other taxes like excise duty and GST wont tally

Excise duty and GST is based on the same OMV.

How come it won't tally?

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/22/2024 at 12:49 PM, yishunite said:

If what he said about milk with "OMV" of $1 but actual money changing hands is $1.50 the excise and GST should be base on $1.50 no?

Excise duty shld be based on the $1 as it's the declared OMV.