Mileage Tampering

[Ct3833]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:18 PM, t0y0ta said:

Friend just bought Vezel 7+ years old... mileage was 90k

You think got discount? 😁

Good discount in mileage 😆

[wen8488]

@Foresterho there is this peace of news that the plantiff won the case by suing the car dealer for odometer tampering 

https://www.sgcarmart.com/articles/news/car-dealer-who-lost-odometer-tampering-case-still-has-not-paid-up-23705

 

But the car dealer has not paid up not sure about the follow up news if the errant car dealer has paid the plantiff?

[Jamesc]

Huh this kind of case can lose?

[Beehive3783]

On 10/18/2024 at 6:17 AM, wen8488 said:

@Foresterho there is this peace of news that the plantiff won the case by suing the car dealer for odometer tampering 

https://www.sgcarmart.com/articles/news/car-dealer-who-lost-odometer-tampering-case-still-has-not-paid-up-23705

 

But the car dealer has not paid up not sure about the follow up news if the errant car dealer has paid the plantiff?

Why are you posting 2019 article in 2024? Why don't you go to that shop lot and see if the dealer is still there?

[macrosszero]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:05 PM, Benarsenal said:

I was just thinking about this again, and actually the solution can be very simple.

All cars have to undergo inspection right? So during inspection, all LTA has to do is record down the mileage, and whatever other info (pass/fail), and then upload the data to a PUBLIC database that anyone can access and check.

All previous inspection data has to be kept on LTA database until the car is scrapped.

It’s simple until the dealer realises he can still clock but less,

e.g., car last inspected at 40,273km

they take in the car at 52,189km

Since they already have a handy dandy OBD device for ahem, diagnosis reasons,

the car will end up having 40,371km. 

Reason for sale? Owner outstation since last inspection. Or seat too hard. Or got new 4th car, this one underutilized and now selling!

My good friend used car dealer tell me one! You cannot stop odometer cheats, just like you can’t stop loving your MIL!

[Beehive3783]

On 10/18/2024 at 11:25 AM, macrosszero said:

It’s simple until the dealer realises he can still clock but less,

e.g., car last inspected at 40,273km

they take in the car at 52,189km

Since they already have a handy dandy OBD device for ahem, diagnosis reasons,

the car will end up having 40,371km. 

Reason for sale? Owner outstation since last inspection. Or seat too hard. Or got new 4th car, this one underutilized and now selling!

My good friend used car dealer tell me one! You cannot stop odometer cheats, just like you can’t stop loving your MIL!

Very unlikely this can happen. It will depend on luck.

1. The car dealer will never know the actual mileage recorded at inspection centre during the previous ownership. 

2. Knowing the greed of car dealers, they will reduce the mileage as much as possible and not just reduce by 12,000km per your example  

Taiwan has been using this system for many years and it has been successful at weeding out cars with tampered mileage. Anyone with the registration and current owner's ID number can check the mileage on a website operated by the vehicle inspection organisation.

For Taiwan to have this system and not Singapore, it speaks volumes on Singapore's commitment (ZERO) to protect consumers.

Edited October 18 by Beehive3783

[macrosszero]

On 10/18/2024 at 11:30 AM, Beehive3783 said:

Very unlikely this can happen. It will depend on luck.

1. The car dealer will never know the actual mileage recorded at inspection centre during the previous ownership. 

2. Knowing the greed of car dealers, they will reduce the mileage as much as possible and not just reduce by 12,000km per your example  

Taiwan has been using this system for many years and it has been successful at weeding out cars with tampered mileage. Anyone with the registration and current owner's ID number can check the mileage on a website operated by the vehicle inspection organisation.

For Taiwan to have this system and not Singapore, it speaks volumes on Singapore's commitment (ZERO) to protect consumers.

I mentioned it, because you said that the mileage of the car will be publicly available. Thus the dealer knows what he cannot clock backward past.

The US also has a pretty good system called CarFax where almost everything done to the car is recorded against its VIN number and serves as transparency when it come to selling a car

[wen8488]

v simple real case stduy whether to and  to sue the car dealer. 

Edited October 18 by wen8488

[wen8488]

@Beehive3783 SG govt only do those that benefit them  esp they able to create more revenue. This system.not regulated perhaps not much 2nd car owners find out & the govt  will only try how to regulate if benefit them to collect more revenue 

Edited October 18 by wen8488

[wen8488]

@Beehive3783 hmmm they changed to performamce carz leasing car company . I'd just check online and change name from performamce carz to performance cars instead . I think they can just close the company and run unless they are reputable enough but unsure as they may also easily move to another address

[Sdf4786k]

On 10/18/2024 at 11:25 AM, macrosszero said:

It’s simple until the dealer realises he can still clock but less,

e.g., car last inspected at 40,273km

they take in the car at 52,189km

Since they already have a handy dandy OBD device for ahem, diagnosis reasons,

the car will end up having 40,371km. 

Reason for sale? Owner outstation since last inspection. Or seat too hard. Or got new 4th car, this one underutilized and now selling!

My good friend used car dealer tell me one! You cannot stop odometer cheats, just like you can’t stop loving your MIL!

As long as its not a criminal breach of trust. There is no wrongdoing ..

In US and UK is every different.

[Jamesc]

Used car dealers buy cars with 3 or 4 owners.

How do we know it had been clocked?

The car could have been in 3 car dealers hands.

One or all 3 might have clocked it.

[Jamesc]

jamesc used cars pay a premium for older low mileage cars driven by retired teachers who only use car to drive to maket on weekends.

[macrosszero]

If every car-related business does it, then we don't need to rely on the inspection centres to do it..... but no one wants to do it, so consumers suffer

 

[Benarsenal]

On 10/18/2024 at 11:25 AM, macrosszero said:

It’s simple until the dealer realises he can still clock but less,

e.g., car last inspected at 40,273km

they take in the car at 52,189km

Since they already have a handy dandy OBD device for ahem, diagnosis reasons,

the car will end up having 40,371km. 

Reason for sale? Owner outstation since last inspection. Or seat too hard. Or got new 4th car, this one underutilized and now selling!

My good friend used car dealer tell me one! You cannot stop odometer cheats, just like you can’t stop loving your MIL!

The alternative is to make owners report mileage whenever they renew road tax/insurance, since that is annual and therefore more regular. Must have picture proof of odometer.

[jcmm]

On 10/18/2024 at 11:46 AM, macrosszero said:

I mentioned it, because you said that the mileage of the car will be publicly available. Thus the dealer knows what he cannot clock backward past.

The US also has a pretty good system called CarFax where almost everything done to the car is recorded against its VIN number and serves as transparency when it come to selling a car

Been a long time...Time and effort are better use to fine tune the COE, ERP, etc (extracts more revenue)...

[107fan]

On 10/18/2024 at 12:17 PM, wen8488 said:

@Beehive3783 SG govt only do those that benefit them  esp they able to create more revenue. This system.not regulated perhaps not much 2nd car owners find out & the govt  will only try how to regulate if benefit them to collect more revenue 

Charge a fee to use the database to check lor.

$100 per car. Small $ to pay for serious car buyers.

 

The problem is more of no one to bring the suggestion to them. Car dealers themselves are the last group to want this to happen.

Tampering of odo is clearly fraud and I can't understand how this isn't illegal already.

[ER-3682]

Alot of MyCarForum Members all buy New Cars & in Full Cash,so no Mileage tampering,ask @RadX

Edited October 18 by ER-3682