Hawkers worry about stall design after fire at newly opened Bukit Canberra Hawker Centre

[13177]

Like that they should rename the Bukit Canberra Hawker Centre to Bukit Canberra Food Court, since it is a food court design. 😂

[Inlinefour]

whatever done by chenghoo must be correct one 

please don't cry pa cry ma 

it's for your own good

🙈🙉🙊

[Mustank]

 

[Kopites]

On 6/20/2023 at 11:24 AM, Mkl22 said:

someone BBQ Le!😁

must be a foreigner who design lor. never see all hawker stalls here are front entry.

No more front loading? Top loading..?

How about zhu chou stall where they would bring the cooked dishes to you. 

[Sosaria]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:55 AM, Abracadabra said:

Safety aspect overlooked.

Thought scdf normally checks these aspects out before giving approval. But looks like it is just a paper exercise / bean-counting process.

Like, fire extinguishers within certain distance away, but no one looks at accessibility or whether those 15m or less can be covered in a straight line unobstructed.

People need more going on ground and less sitting in aircon office, to do the checks properly.

[Lethalstrike]

On 6/20/2023 at 1:27 PM, Victor68 said:

True but I have yet to come across a food court stall that is so small as a hawker center stall leh. Even their kitchen area is bigger than the hawker center stall. Same for coffee shop stalls. Why NEA so clever? 

This food centre is run by Canopy, who is a food court operator. So no surprise it did not occur to them something which is this obvious. Or perhaps this is a deliberate design? 

[Benarsenal]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:00 PM, Kopites said:

No more front loading? Top loading..?

How about zhu chou stall where they would bring the cooked dishes to you. 

Don't have. All self-service.

[Benarsenal]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:17 PM, Lethalstrike said:

This food centre is run by Canopy, who is a food court operator. So no surprise it did not occur to them something which is this obvious. Or perhaps this is a deliberate design? 

Nowadays seems like those newer hawker centres like to be designed to be atas. Forgot their roots that hawker centre must be simple.

[inlinesix]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:07 PM, Sosaria said:

Thought scdf normally checks these aspects out before giving approval. But looks like it is just a paper exercise / bean-counting process.

Like, fire extinguishers within certain distance away, but no one looks at accessibility or whether those 15m or less can be covered in a straight line unobstructed.

People need more going on ground and less sitting in aircon office, to do the checks properly.

Nowadays, ppl WFH

[Carbon82]

I suspect when Canopy Hawkers Group submitted the layout plan to SCDF, there is no wall indicated at the front of the stall (something like the illustration below) since the stainless steel counter is not a fixed structure, thus the plan was approved by SCDF and Temporary Fire Permit issued last Sept.

This is how such stall would look like, where the stainless steel counter is not part of the stall structure. 

However, for unknown reasons, Canopy subsequently decided to disallow entry / exit at the stall front in Dec, prior to the official opening on 17 Dec. And I guess they know such changes in layout will impact fire safety of the Hawker Centre, so they get the stall operators to sign a contract, which also includes the placement of a fire extinguisher within the stall.

In normal circumstances, there should be a opening at the stall front if the counter is a fix structure, similar to the drawing below. 

This is how a fix counter look like, which will have an opening at one side of the stall to facilitate access to the stall. 

[kobayashiGT]

This is a typical case of you want more table space you take away something else. 

Maybe before they start designing, they did go ask around? Maybe alot of hawkers mention to them that not enough table space. So, they wanna tackle this issue. 

Since have alrd built liao, ask the hawkers there to wear fire proximate suit to work lah. Got fire also no scare. 😄

What kind of wok hei you want? hahaha. this suit can give . . . . 

 

[SGMCF328]

@Carbon82 Are you working for SCDF? Your explanation sounds plausible, and your drawings and photo of the stalls provides a very clear picture of what are the differences between fixed and removable structure at the counter front.

So in the event of a changes in layout, is it necessary to get SCDF approval again? For the layman, who is at fault in this case? TIA. 

[Kopites]

The ultimate question. What will be the foods pricing? Food court pricing or hawker pricing. 🤔

[inlinesix]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:46 AM, Kopites said:

The ultimate question. What will be the foods pricing? Food court pricing or hawker pricing. 🤔

You go and try it out lo

🤭

[Kopites]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:47 AM, inlinesix said:

You go and try it out lo

🤭

Where about is Bukit Canberra?

Let me Google. 

[Victor68]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:07 PM, Sosaria said:

Thought scdf normally checks these aspects out before giving approval. But looks like it is just a paper exercise / bean-counting process.

Like, fire extinguishers within certain distance away, but no one looks at accessibility or whether those 15m or less can be covered in a straight line unobstructed.

People need more going on ground and less sitting in aircon office, to do the checks properly.

With all the scholars heading the government agencies, nobody wants to hold on to responsibilities that don't bring in revenue and give yourself trouble lah. First they push all responsibilities to QP, you chop and sign and anything you responsible. Then the make establishment appoint Fire Safety Manager, again if he didn't check, he responsible. SCDF only keep records lah. 😆

Idea is not wrong but need to be more stringent on the people approved to chop and sign. But bizman complain expensive to engage QP, so relax to invite competition on price lor. Only doctors and lawyers need to protect their salary. 

[Carbon82]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:26 AM, SGMCF328 said:

@Carbon82 Are you working for SCDF? Your explanation sounds plausible, and your drawings and photo of the stalls provides a very clear picture of what are the differences between fixed and removable structure at the counter front.

So in the event of a changes in layout, is it necessary to get SCDF approval again? For the layman, who is at fault in this case? TIA. 

Nope, I am not in the public sector, but have been dealing with them regularly on fire safety related matters, and a "trouble maker" at times, challenging them on the Fire Code and other regulations when working on A&A or new fit out projects. 

OK to put things in perspective, SCDF only requires full height compartmentation with fire rated door and at least 1 exit per kitchen / stall, as well as putting in place suitable fire fighting and protection system (e.g. extinguishing system in cooker hood, fire extinguisher, hose reel, etc.) for eatery, in general. 

That mean the current restrictions of entry / exit at the front counter do not violate the existing regulations. BUT it is explicitly spelled out that fire extinguishers must be placed at a location such that it is easily accessible by the users, thus a potential violation if the traveling distance (front stall to extinguisher exceeded the max distance).

If that's the case, the operator (Canopy) MAY be issued a Fire Hazard Abatement Notice (FHAN), which requires them to have the situation rectified within a given time frame.

[Vidz]

its to hider hawkers to shake leg and orh-pee-sai at the diner tables.. 🙂😀