Education getting softer in Singapore and the GEP

[Watwheels]

  On 1/9/2023 at 6:13 AM, Tkseah said:

By advocating to place more emphasis to develop the "elites", how is that different from throwing the non-elites under the bus?  In terms of who needs more help, it is obvious it is the non-elites that need more help. Think in terms of havings 2 kids, one very smart and quick learning, the other not so smart and slower to learn.  Who do you focus more of your energy and resources to help? If you channel more energy and resources to help the smart one, where do you think the not so smart one will end up?

One of my friend has 2 kids, older bro is normal n bright, while younger bro has mild autism n has difficulty with learning.  More time, energy and resouces is spent on helping the younger bro.  Older bro is not neglected, but think he understands why the family has to focus a little bit more on the younger bro.

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Wow, well said.

Sad to say many ppl still have that elitist mindset, wanting the old system. It is hard for them to understand because their children dont have struggles like some have to go thru. 

 

 

[Ender]

  On 1/9/2023 at 5:09 AM, Wind30 said:

Err…. That is what I am complaining about. Getting soft in our education. Taking care of the weaker students, or the masses to be politically correct.

Just ask yourself, for the good of Singapore, who will have the most impact/good for the country? ITE student or GEP student on average. I can tell u the positions of my old gep class and what they do now. 

I just need to be clear I am not advocating throwing the ITE students under the bus, and it is not black and white but a spectrum. I just feel we are leaning too much the other way. 
 

the primary goal of any education system I feel is to develop the people, but not equally… more emphasis has to be placed of the “elites” however dirty that word is. At the end of the day, the high achievers will impact our country so much more. 

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These are public schools. The programme needs to cater for the masses. A system where most will benefit, i.e your average performing kids. not your 270 T-scorer. Those who are able to achieve signifcant academic height will still be helped in the form of scholarship to prestigious universities. 

[Watwheels]

  On 1/9/2023 at 5:09 AM, Wind30 said:

Err…. That is what I am complaining about. Getting soft in our education. Taking care of the weaker students, or the masses to be politically correct.

Just ask yourself, for the good of Singapore, who will have the most impact/good for the country? ITE student or GEP student on average. I can tell u the positions of my old gep class and what they do now. 

I just need to be clear I am not advocating throwing the ITE students under the bus, and it is not black and white but a spectrum. I just feel we are leaning too much the other way. 
 

the primary goal of any education system I feel is to develop the people, but not equally… more emphasis has to be placed of the “elites” however dirty that word is. At the end of the day, the high achievers will impact our country so much more. 

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I dont agree. It is not about being politically correct.

Everyone is born different and they will have a role in society some day. By labelling them not as good as others will demoralize them at a young age. This is not what we want. What we want is to encourage children to work harder and not give up. What will the children become who give up at a young age? What bad things will they do to society?

Taking care of weaker student will benefit the future. Plus they do not burden the society, they can take care of themselves w/o breaking the law.

 

[Lala81]

  On 1/9/2023 at 5:09 AM, Wind30 said:

Err…. That is what I am complaining about. Getting soft in our education. Taking care of the weaker students, or the masses to be politically correct.

Just ask yourself, for the good of Singapore, who will have the most impact/good for the country? ITE student or GEP student on average. I can tell u the positions of my old gep class and what they do now. 

I just need to be clear I am not advocating throwing the ITE students under the bus, and it is not black and white but a spectrum. I just feel we are leaning too much the other way. 
 

the primary goal of any education system I feel is to develop the people, but not equally… more emphasis has to be placed of the “elites” however dirty that word is. At the end of the day, the high achievers will impact our country so much more. 

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I disagree. Cos the academically bright ones will succeed anyway. School environment matters very little to them.
They will succeed where-ever they go to school. Even if they are home schooled.

Especially nowadays, the parents and kids are all more savvy to opportunities than previous generations. Almost every student, whose parents can afford it, is augmented nowadays in term of extra tuition/classes/support. 
And spending couple thousand a month on tuition etc is pretty common. 

If u are good at your studies and come from a humble background, you can gain access to bursaries etc. It's not like these pathways are eroded. 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Lala81

[Tkseah]

One way to view the education system is that the more important target is to ensure that >95% of the students pass and succeed, rather than to target the top 5% to achieve top world rankings.  

The development of the next generation should be viewed as a team race rather than an individual race, where the whole team has to cross the line in order to win. 

[Wind30]

  On 1/9/2023 at 6:13 AM, Tkseah said:

By advocating to place more emphasis to develop the "elites", how is that different from throwing the non-elites under the bus?  In terms of who needs more help, it is obvious it is the non-elites that need more help. Think in terms of havings 2 kids, one very smart and quick learning, the other not so smart and slower to learn.  Who do you focus more of your energy and resources to help? If you channel more energy and resources to help the smart one, where do you think the not so smart one will end up?

One of my friend has 2 kids, older bro is normal n bright, while younger bro has mild autism n has difficulty with learning.  More time, energy and resouces is spent on helping the younger bro.  Older bro is not neglected, but think he understands why the family has to focus a little bit more on the younger bro.

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Ok let’s put it this way, a family with 10 kids, 9 has autism. 1 is bright. If u spend more effort on the 9 and close the distance between them, all 10 will earn an average income. If u spend more money on the bright 1, he might start a successful business and employ his 9 brothers with a higher than average income. 
whether u like it or not, this policy has been done in lky era. The funding for gep per kid is higher than normal kids. Why? Everyone knows gep kids don’t need much help. U think lky is stupid? 

[inlinesix]

LKY era breed a lot of elite resulting in elitist culture.

He is an elite.

[Wind30]

  On 1/9/2023 at 8:33 AM, Lala81 said:

I disagree. Cos the academically bright ones will succeed anyway. School environment matters very little to them.
They will succeed where-ever they go to school. Even if they are home schooled.

Especially nowadays, the parents and kids are all more savvy to opportunities than previous generations. Almost every student, whose parents can afford it, is augmented nowadays in term of extra tuition/classes/support. 
And spending couple thousand a month on tuition etc is pretty common. 

If u are good at your studies and come from a humble background, you can gain access to bursaries etc. It's not like these pathways are eroded. 

 

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I don’t think so. Teachers are not that useful but peers are much more influential. The environment is important. I really think intelligence needs to be nurtured. 

[Wind30]

  On 1/9/2023 at 10:10 AM, inlinesix said:

LKY era breed a lot of elite resulting in elitist culture.

He is an elite.

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Result is there, no? The elitist culture is not just for the elites, it is to uplift everyone and to do that u need the high achievers to carry the rest of us. 
 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Wind30

[inlinesix]

  On 1/9/2023 at 10:11 AM, Wind30 said:

Result is there, no? The elitist culture is not just for the elites, it is to uplift everyone and to do that u need the high achievers to carry the rest of us. 

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With or without elitist culture, Singapore will be uplifted.  It is just a matter of duration.

With an elitist culture, we were uplifted in 15 years after independent.

[Lala81]

  On 1/9/2023 at 10:11 AM, Wind30 said:

I don’t think so. Teachers are not that useful but peers are much more influential. The environment is important. I really think intelligence needs to be nurtured. 

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Is your dg in a less intellectually stimulating environment then u were in? Since she's attending the alma mater (generally, since merge already more or less)

[Wind30]

  On 1/9/2023 at 10:29 AM, Lala81 said:

Is your dg in a less intellectually stimulating environment than u were in? Since she's attending the alma mater (generally, since merge already more or less)

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… I never attend her classes so I can’t say for sure. I have many things which I don’t agree with… too long to write in detail

1) no median and highest score. For me, knowing some guy scored 100 in maths makes me want to do better. It’s just me when I was young. 
2) overly strict marking scheme emphasising on keywords, presentation of answers. This topic is tooooo long to write

3) so many holidays….. 

4) less assessments… more time to play Genshin impact or valorant because that’s what she spend her new found time on. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Wind30

[Lala81]

  On 1/9/2023 at 10:48 AM, Wind30 said:

… I never attend her classes so I can’t say for sure. I have many things which I don’t agree with… too long to write in detail

1) no median and highest score. For me, knowing some guy scored 100 in maths makes me want to do better. It’s just me when I was young. 
2) overly strict marking scheme emphasising on keywords, presentation of answers. This topic is tooooo long to write

3) so many holidays….. 

4) less assessments… more time to play Genshin impact or valorant because that’s what she spend her new found time on. 

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every parent has some gripe about the education system.

I would agree on point 2. 

But that's your own competitive streak manifesting itself. 
If your daughter feels like she has this burning need to find out the median and highest score, then by all means, she should go ahead and speak to her teacher. But if not, then it's just your own parental anxiety projecting a need for a reference marker to allay your own fear.
It does nothing for your kid actually. She should be old enough, to know whether it's really important to her. If she has a real desire to improve herself in whichever subject, then in this day and age of much more assertive kids/teens (especially in an elite institution), she should be able to steer her own path.

I don't think kids are as meek or ignorant as we once were.

 

 

[Yeshe]

  On 1/9/2023 at 5:09 AM, Wind30 said:

Err…. That is what I am complaining about. Getting soft in our education. Taking care of the weaker students, or the masses to be politically correct.

Just ask yourself, for the good of Singapore, who will have the most impact/good for the country? ITE student or GEP student on average. I can tell u the positions of my old gep class and what they do now. 

I just need to be clear I am not advocating throwing the ITE students under the bus, and it is not black and white but a spectrum. I just feel we are leaning too much the other way. 
 

the primary goal of any education system I feel is to develop the people, but not equally… more emphasis has to be placed of the “elites” however dirty that word is. At the end of the day, the high achievers will impact our country so much more. 

Expand  

What is considered high achiever? Is Sim Wong Hoo a high achievers in SG education context?

[Lethalstrike]

I thought now every school is a good school, so every grade should be a good grade right? 😁

[Ender]

  On 1/9/2023 at 10:07 AM, Wind30 said:

Ok let’s put it this way, a family with 10 kids, 9 has autism. 1 is bright. If u spend more effort on the 9 and close the distance between them, all 10 will earn an average income. If u spend more money on the bright 1, he might start a successful business and employ his 9 brothers with a higher than average income. 
whether u like it or not, this policy has been done in lky era. The funding for gep per kid is higher than normal kids. Why? Everyone knows gep kids don’t need much help. U think lky is stupid? 

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Describe until gep like saviour.  That gep might have equal chance  just left the family for his own pleasure. Better to safe guard the 9 autistic with basic life skill than rely on hope of someone might just be the nice guy.

[Wind30]

  On 1/9/2023 at 11:17 AM, Lala81 said:

every parent has some gripe about the education system.

I would agree on point 2. 

But that's your own competitive streak manifesting itself. 
If your daughter feels like she has this burning need to find out the median and highest score, then by all means, she should go ahead and speak to her teacher. But if not, then it's just your own parental anxiety projecting a need for a reference marker to allay your own fear.
It does nothing for your kid actually. She should be old enough, to know whether it's really important to her. If she has a real desire to improve herself in whichever subject, then in this day and age of much more assertive kids/teens (especially in an elite institution), she should be able to steer her own path.

I don't think kids are as meek or ignorant as we once were.

 

 

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?? My point 1 has nothing to do with my daughter. I thought I was specific about it. For her, I also wrote at length why I want the median score. I am pretty hands off in her sec studies. 
kind of curious, how do u evaluate your kid grades if there is no median? To me, it is really stupid to go to great lengths to implement holistic assessments (her assessment now has far more components than my time) and then make the assessment less meaningful by not giving the median.

[Wind30]

  On 1/9/2023 at 11:40 AM, Ender said:

Describe until gep like saviour.  That gep might have equal chance  just left the family for his own pleasure. Better to safe guard the 9 autistic with basic life skill than rely on hope of someone might just be the nice guy.

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It’s a numbers game… I think that gep guy has probably more than equal chance of leaving the family if I look at my classmates. I still think it works out better for Singapore, it’s hard to say for sure but I think lky method did work. 
Looking back, I am amazed how lky convinced people to do such an unpopular policy…. Maybe last time no internet, people dunno. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Wind30