Huawei unveils Mate 50 phone that links with China's own GPS system

[Arogab]

  On 9/7/2023 at 11:23 PM, Lala81 said:

These Taiwanese shows r damn annoying

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  On 9/7/2023 at 11:52 PM, Lala81 said:

https://reddit.com/r/Android/s/NwIbZz9RpY

There's a Chinese Video in the link. 

Basically this smic made kirin 9000s is impressive given how much sanctions they are going through. It's slightly more powerful and efficient than a sd888/sd8 g1 at baseline use. But it becomes inefficient as u crank it out. That's where the sd8g2 shines compared to the prev generations. 

This is impressive even if it's not true innovation. 

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You look at these TWnese, I have many good friends but I have seen a fair bit of those who are irritating. They will look at things at another way and turns black into white and white into black. They will loose out in a certain manner. 

  On 9/8/2023 at 1:01 AM, Jellandross said:

I read many headlines stating SMIC "violated US sanctions".

But it looks like this is a made in China chip so what is the violation?

Angmohs still thinking "far eastern dumb Chinese" cannot make advancements without angmoh tech?

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  On 9/8/2023 at 1:16 AM, Lala81 said:

I don't want to go into chinese/asian pride part.

But the vast majority of modern semiconductor technology is based off Western technology. 

I would liken the analogy that the taiwanese and the koreans are mostly the most efficient factories/producers and have the technical knowhow to manufacture them. 
But all the generational leaps in process manufacturing or improvements, most of the foundational technology comes from Europe/US IP. 

 

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For the Chinese part. I do not really support them but look at the way speed and the hard work they put in. I have been reading a lot about them too. In one interview with someone who was asked why China advance so fast. The answer went - Look at us (China), when we have a problem, we have thousands of factories trying to resolve it. Don't you think we will find a way out?"

Just like when the whole world is out of mask, who was the one to come up with all the supply. It's China. And if you tell me a mask is easily made. Go try run one of the machines. I can tell you not easy due to the soft fabric automation and the ultrasound welding. Of course, many cut corners. But this shows that they are also cost and profitability conscious.

And that is why I keep saying, we need to keep up or risk being catches up which they have done so. 

[Arogab]

  On 9/8/2023 at 1:23 AM, Lala81 said:

Not really. SK Hynix chips are found in the phone. most likely memory etc.

Anyway it's pretty moot. Most countries in the world can't make a 100% made in 1 country phone due to the super outsourced nature of electronics/semiconductor business. 1 phone may have parts from dozens of countries to say the least. 

I'm sure all kinds of sanctions were circumvented in this phone.

Will china eventually catch up? I don't think they have the critical factor innovation to push the pace. But to catch up and make 80-90% copies, yeah sure just a matter of time.

I'm not dissing them or what. But this is something incredibly technically complex and difficult. So that's already very good liao. 

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SK Hynix say they do not deal with HW at all. Haha. I can say those chips will soon be replaced with what you may know HW is doing. During the start of the sanctions. HW have been buying furiously. Not only that, but they are also developing equipment at a far higher speed and volume. 

[Lala81]

  On 9/8/2023 at 1:45 AM, Voodooman said:

I am a noob on semicon, but the processor apparently is 100% made using Chinese equipment (from what I read), so US and its allies are now shifting focus to the memory chips now that they have failed to stop the Chinese from getting to 7nm? 

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Processor is Chinese design. Built by SMIC. The chip design is I guess as inhouse as things can get nowadays.

 

It's complicated and I also just a youtube video watcher only.
But nanometer doesn't mean much. For example, no doubt TSMC 4nm and Samsung has 4nm. But in reality, nanometer just describes a potentially more efficient chip design. But in reality, Intel can create pretty good chips from say a 10-12nm process. Just that power efficiency matters in small devices with small batteries, so we think wah this is very high tech. But in reality, many chips that power our everyday life can be from 16nm - 28nm. 

And also yield is another thing. SMIC maybe able to make 7nm dies but maybe the efficiency/yield is poor. It MAYBE a pride thing but not actually very cost feasible. 

 

[Arogab]

At G20, Biden to pitch U.S. as alternative to China

https://sg.yahoo.com/news/g20-biden-pitch-u-alternative-202120529.html

This is part of what they are trying to do.

[Lala81]

  On 9/8/2023 at 2:01 AM, Arogab said:

SK Hynix say they do not deal with HW at all. Haha. I can say those chips will soon be replaced with what you may know HW is doing. During the start of the sanctions. HW have been buying furiously. Not only that, but they are also developing equipment at a far higher speed and volume. 

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i have no doubt that it will happen. The chinese are the biggest trade secret stealer of South Korea. 

Ok lah, industrial espionage is like that. And the companies all need to make sales. 

[Arogab]

  On 9/8/2023 at 3:05 AM, Lala81 said:

i have no doubt that it will happen. The chinese are the biggest trade secret stealer of South Korea. 

Ok lah, industrial espionage is like that. And the companies all need to make sales. 

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Who does not copy leh, the SK are copiers too. If don't copy, how to learn? If don't lift up the standard, then how to come up and lead. For me, copy is a smart way of learning only. 

[Lala81]

  On 9/8/2023 at 5:11 AM, Arogab said:

Who does not copy leh, the SK are copiers too. If don't copy, how to learn? If don't lift up the standard, then how to come up and lead. For me, copy is a smart way of learning only. 

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That's why i say copy is normal and expected. Being a good copycat is also a compliment. You can make a good living being a good copycat.

But to actually push the envelope requires different skills.

And in an industry where capex is few billion dollars per foundry. R&D is also billions to make a small improvement each time. Innovation is really not easy. 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Lala81

[Arogab]

  On 9/8/2023 at 5:29 AM, Lala81 said:

That's why i say copy is normal and expected. Being a good copycat is also a compliment. You can make a good living being a good copycat.

But to actually push the envelope requires different skills.

And in an industry where capex is few billion dollars per foundry. R&D is also billions to make a small improvement each time. Innovation is really not easy. 

 

 

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They already make it from the tunneling equipment and wind turbine blades and generator liao. Just wait lor

[Voodooman]

Double post. Deleted.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Voodooman

[Voodooman]

  On 9/8/2023 at 3:05 AM, Lala81 said:

i have no doubt that it will happen. The chinese are the biggest trade secret stealer of South Korea. 

Ok lah, industrial espionage is like that. And the companies all need to make sales. 

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The South Koreans copied (read: stole) from the Japanese during early years.

It is ironic that Japan is now rolling out the red carpet to get TSMC to build a fab in Kumamoto. How they lost their pole position in semicon, self inflicted or pure bad luck?  

Edited September 8, 2023 by Voodooman

[Lala81]

  On 9/8/2023 at 9:16 AM, Voodooman said:

The South Koreans copied (read: stole) from the Japanese during early years.

It is ironic that Japan is now rolling out the red carpet to get TSMC to build a fab in Kumamoto. How they lost their pole position in semicon, self inflicted or pure bad luck?  

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If u want to be a YouTube armchair expert about Asian related semi conductor history, there's this YouTube channel called asianometry. It's by some angmoh guy who works in Taiwan. It covers all kinds of Asian related history which is quite fascinating. 

[Kb27]

  On 9/8/2023 at 1:23 AM, Lala81 said:

Not really. SK Hynix chips are found in the phone. most likely memory etc.

Anyway it's pretty moot. Most countries in the world can't make a 100% made in 1 country phone due to the super outsourced nature of electronics/semiconductor business. 1 phone may have parts from dozens of countries to say the least. 

I'm sure all kinds of sanctions were circumvented in this phone.

Will china eventually catch up? I don't think they have the critical factor innovation to push the pace. But to catch up and make 80-90% copies, yeah sure just a matter of time.

I'm not dissing them or what. But this is something incredibly technically complex and difficult. So that's already very good liao. 

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There was once upon a time, I worked on a system integration doing build + acceptance tests.

One of the test involved measuring current consumption. At one point, they ran out of supply of Toshiba memory chip, which is the original design. Then they switched supplier to Hynix. Everything seems ok, decided by top management, engineering team.

However, I discovered that the system borderline failure on current consumption. I narrowed it down to the Hynix. It was not up to par with the Toshiba.

Later, they switched back to Toshiba. Somehow they found a source, and now it passed the test with excellent result.

Hynix might have improved a lot since then, but the Jap chipmaker is tops, and of cuz it's always more expensive.

[Somewhat1975]

  On 9/8/2023 at 9:16 AM, Voodooman said:

 How they lost their pole position in semicon, self inflicted or pure bad luck?  

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simple, sanctioned by US. https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-us-prevented-japan-s-toshiba-from-becoming-no-1-chipmaker-62393

[Sosaria]

  On 9/8/2023 at 2:12 AM, Lala81 said:

Processor is Chinese design. Built by SMIC. The chip design is I guess as inhouse as things can get nowadays.

 

It's complicated and I also just a youtube video watcher only.
But nanometer doesn't mean much. For example, no doubt TSMC 4nm and Samsung has 4nm. But in reality, nanometer just describes a potentially more efficient chip design. But in reality, Intel can create pretty good chips from say a 10-12nm process. Just that power efficiency matters in small devices with small batteries, so we think wah this is very high tech. But in reality, many chips that power our everyday life can be from 16nm - 28nm. 

And also yield is another thing. SMIC maybe able to make 7nm dies but maybe the efficiency/yield is poor. It MAYBE a pride thing but not actually very cost feasible. 

 

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China is like India. Regardless of their internal issues or lack, out of their sheer numbers, by pure chance there will be a handful of einsteins in each generation. To make the lunar landers, or advanced chips.

[Sosaria]

  On 9/8/2023 at 11:51 AM, Singa said:

have to wait and see on this one. not everything can be solved by population size. if it can, then China or India would have lifted FIFA world cup by now. 😁

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Soccer not popular sport in China or India.

Why not look at cricket or field hockey or wrestling for India, or weightlifting for China? World or olympic champions.

For wrestling or weightlifting, these are physical sports; for asians to beat ang moh in this field, big talent pool plays a part.

Out of the masses, will emerge purely by chance, potential world champion.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Sosaria

[Sosaria]

  On 9/8/2023 at 1:01 AM, Jellandross said:

I read many headlines stating SMIC "violated US sanctions".

But it looks like this is a made in China chip so what is the violation?

Angmohs still thinking "far eastern dumb Chinese" cannot make advancements without angmoh tech?

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What is new? This kind of thinking make them lose WW2 in south east asia

They thought japanese are all short-sighted, cannot possibly make good pilots. Then came pearl harbour.

They thought japanese no match for their forces, so sent all the best fighter aircraft to europe to defend against the luftwaffe, leaving only obsolete biplanes to go up against jap zeros.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Sosaria

[Voodooman]

  On 9/8/2023 at 11:13 AM, Sosaria said:

China is like India. Regardless of their internal issues or lack, out of their sheer numbers, by pure chance there will be a handful of einsteins in each generation. To make the lunar landers, or advanced chips.

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I thought it is more by statistics and not luck, helped by an industrious culture. 

 

[Voodooman]

  On 9/8/2023 at 10:43 AM, Somewhat1975 said:

simple, sanctioned by US. https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-us-prevented-japan-s-toshiba-from-becoming-no-1-chipmaker-62393

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Looks like history is repeating itself, but stronger armed tactics this time round as the Chinese, unlike the Japanese, are not willing to play ball.