Putin starts “military operation” on Ukraine

[Jamesc]

 

[Sturtles]

On 3/7/2024 at 1:39 AM, Ender said:

Follow the time line.

 

All pushing partial facts to their advantage.

 

[Kb27]

Sweden formally joined NATO on Mar 7, 2024. after 200 years of neutrality,   thanks to putin's outstanding salesmanship.

Next, will be Gripen's delivery to Ukraine ?

[yishunite]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:58 PM, Sturtles said:

All pushing partial facts to their advantage.

 

Lol why you quote Wikipedia without link to actual article? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

is it coz you wanna hide that you quoted a Wikipedia line with no citation that anyone in the world can edit, in your own words "pushing partial facts to their advantage"? 🤣🤣🤣

Edited March 7 by yishunite

[Ghgan]

Victoria Nuland, third-highest ranking US diplomat and critic of Russia’s war in Ukraine, retiring

https://apnews.com/article/state-department-victoria-nuland-retiring-russia-ukraine-b06cfb9ca517f1a7f2e10ee7520e3086

[Ender]

On 3/7/2024 at 11:59 PM, Ghgan said:

Victoria Nuland, third-highest ranking US diplomat and critic of Russia’s war in Ukraine, retiring

https://apnews.com/article/state-department-victoria-nuland-retiring-russia-ukraine-b06cfb9ca517f1a7f2e10ee7520e3086

This one tio investigation regarding the funds for Ukraine. 

[Ender]

On 3/7/2024 at 11:27 PM, yishunite said:

Lol why you quote Wikipedia without link to actual article? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

is it coz you wanna hide that you quoted a Wikipedia line with no citation that anyone in the world can edit, in your own words "pushing partial facts to their advantage"? 🤣🤣🤣

Context also different when you read the whole article.

[Playtime]

I would say Ukraine has every right to join anyone as per any nation. No arguments,  nothing at all.

 

Cos Singapore also got bombed because someone else tot we shouldn't join malaya... if we say Ukraine justified to be invaded,  then what do we say about Confrontasi? We should stfu about Macdonald house liao 🤦‍♂️

Or for that matter FPDA etc? cos its no secret even today,  some are not happy about who we have security arrangements with. 

[Sturtles]

On 3/7/2024 at 11:27 PM, yishunite said:

Lol why you quote Wikipedia without link to actual article? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

is it coz you wanna hide that you quoted a Wikipedia line with no citation that anyone in the world can edit, in your own words "pushing partial facts to their advantage"? 🤣🤣🤣

 

There is a problem with some adults or "pseudo" adults in this forum.

As a bunch of car-owning elite, whom probably belongs to only top 30% of the population, the seemingly absence of critical thinking is baffling.

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm

This is the link from NATO itself

The fact Ukraine didn't get invaded in 2008 was because the neutral or pro-russian government didn't aspire to join NATO following the declaration, hence the partial truth by the video claiming Ukraine didn't actively seek to join NATO.

This is also likely the start of major clandestine works to stir the population in the background, and indeed the colour revolution / euromaiden protests followed.

 

 

Edited March 8 by Sturtles

[Ender]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:47 PM, Playtime said:

I would say Ukraine has every right to join anyone as per any nation. No arguments,  nothing at all.

 

Cos Singapore also got bombed because someone else tot we shouldn't join malaya... if we say Ukraine justified to be invaded,  then what do we say about Confrontasi? We should stfu about Macdonald house liao 🤦‍♂️

Or for that matter FPDA etc? cos its no secret even today,  some are not happy about who we have security arrangements with. 

That's the core why we support Ukraine. Leaving all geopolitics aside, a country should have the right to exercise which alliance they like to join. And also a big country shouldn't impose on smaller country with threat of invasion. Our situation here is scarily similar, on so many times we have been complained of being unneighborly. 

Another incident is many years back when we host the visit of the Israel President in the 80s. Our neighbor up north stage strong protest. So how? Base on putin thoughts' we have to concede to Malaysia wishes which really is none of their business. They on the other hand should try to understand the special ties we have with Israel.

Ukraine one main problem is the apparent weak military power back then where everyone, including the west, really thought Kyiv will fall within week, like how Crimea was so easily taken. Putin thought he will repeat the same with a SMO. 

[Sturtles]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:47 PM, Playtime said:

I would say Ukraine has every right to join anyone as per any nation. No arguments,  nothing at all.

 

Cos Singapore also got bombed because someone else tot we shouldn't join malaya... if we say Ukraine justified to be invaded,  then what do we say about Confrontasi? We should stfu about Macdonald house liao 🤦‍♂️

Or for that matter FPDA etc? cos its no secret even today,  some are not happy about who we have security arrangements with. 

For once, I agree with you.

That said, there is a consequence for every action. 

Though it is illegal for Russia to invade Ukraine, or Crimea even, it does mean invasion of other's sovereign territory is not possible.

Ukraine failed to calculate their odds for the sovereign decision.

The same goes for the genocidal retaliation from Israel when Hamas terrorised the settlers across Gazanian borders.

This is why we need to have a strong SAF, and not throw in the towel and be defenceless like Vatican, Maldives etc.

For countries with small population, every mother's son and daughter need to be part of the defence. 

The consequence however, is deadly, and should not be lightly chosen. 

Because for it could be difference between being cleansed from the face of earth and surviving.

[yishunite]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:48 PM, Sturtles said:

There is a problem with some adults or "pseudo" adults in this forum.

As a bunch of car-owning elite, whom probably belongs to only top 30% of the population, the seemingly absence of critical thinking is baffling.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm

This is the link from NATO itself

The fact Ukraine didn't get invaded in 2008 was because the neutral or pro-russian government didn't aspire to join NATO following the declaration, hence the partial truth by the video claiming Ukraine didn't actively seek to join NATO.

This is also likely the start of major clandestine works to stir the population in the background, and indeed the colour revolution / euromaiden protests followed.

Lol 2006 vs 2008, so your main point was wrong... what I learn is timeline very important coz actual events like Russian invasions and Russian installing puppets happen to totally change the context from yr to yr. In fact can find the original press briefing by googling this Appathurai guy https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2006/s060627a.htm. What he actually say is totally twisted in the Wikipedia:

Quote

On the second issue, Ukraine , if the press reports that I've read and I think they're probably accurate are indeed correct and the Coalition has agreed to hold a referendum on NATO membership that is of course, 100%, a decision for the Ukrainians. What NATO will always continue to do is support the Ukrainian reform process. If Ukraine chooses to continue its path and move closer to NATO, NATO will support that process too as we're doing now in the intensified dialogue that we have with Ukraine . So the direction that Ukraine chooses to steer is Ukraine 's. If that includes a referendum that is of course entirely within Ukraine 's remit. And NATO supports the decisions taken by the Ukrainian people whatever it is.

So what happened in 2008 Ukraine held referendum in favor, previously was back and forth a bit coz whenever they had RuZZian puppet in power "suddenly" the public dowan join NATO... then Russia invade Georgia and then later actually invaded Ukraine... so after that some NATO members fully back Ukraine. End of story Ukraine die die want to join NATO, because of Russia's aggression lol

Btw @Sturtles you are so pro RuZZia that Singapore has sanctioned... are you aware you can be register as foreign agent under FICA? 🤣

I always wonder why you run away after 2-3 exchanges if confronted on your ruZZian misinformation... dowan ah gong notice you isit 🤣

[Sturtles]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:00 PM, yishunite said:

Lol 2006 vs 2008, so your main point was wrong... what I learn is timeline very important coz actual events like Russian invasions and Russian installing puppets happen to totally change the context from yr to yr. In fact can find the original press briefing by googling this Appathurai guy https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2006/s060627a.htm. What he actually say is totally twisted in the Wikipedia:

So what happened in 2008 Ukraine held referendum in favor, previously was back and forth a bit coz whenever they had RuZZian puppet in power "suddenly" the public dowan join NATO... then Russia invade Georgia and then later actually invaded Ukraine... so after that some NATO members fully back Ukraine. End of story Ukraine die die want to join NATO, because of Russia's aggression lol

Btw @Sturtles you are so pro RuZZia that Singapore has sanctioned... are you aware you can be register as foreign agent under FICA? 🤣

I always wonder why you run away after 2-3 exchanges if confronted on your ruZZian misinformation... dowan ah gong notice you isit 🤣

Not parroting pro-Ukrainian POV in your eyes would subject me to FICA investigation?

Your online persona could be a front funded by foreign paymasters to mislead neutral members of public to rouse their fervour and nods for a war that has dwindling support, against the interest of Singapore’s long term economy 

This avenue of discourse is shallow and deviates from the topic at hand.

[inlinesix]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:00 PM, yishunite said:

Lol 2006 vs 2008, so your main point was wrong... what I learn is timeline very important coz actual events like Russian invasions and Russian installing puppets happen to totally change the context from yr to yr. In fact can find the original press briefing by googling this Appathurai guy https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2006/s060627a.htm. What he actually say is totally twisted in the Wikipedia:

So what happened in 2008 Ukraine held referendum in favor, previously was back and forth a bit coz whenever they had RuZZian puppet in power "suddenly" the public dowan join NATO... then Russia invade Georgia and then later actually invaded Ukraine... so after that some NATO members fully back Ukraine. End of story Ukraine die die want to join NATO, because of Russia's aggression lol

Btw @Sturtles you are so pro RuZZia that Singapore has sanctioned... are you aware you can be register as foreign agent under FICA? 🤣

I always wonder why you run away after 2-3 exchanges if confronted on your ruZZian misinformation... dowan ah gong notice you isit 🤣

Unlike to invoke FICA la.

Don't anyhow use it.

[yishunite]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:30 PM, Sturtles said:

Not parroting pro-Ukrainian POV in your eyes would subject me to FICA investigation?

Your online persona could be a front funded by foreign paymasters to mislead neutral members of public to rouse their fervour and nods for a war that has dwindling support, against the interest of Singapore’s long term economy 

This avenue of discourse is shallow and deviates from the topic at hand.

Putin can stop fighting any time he likes. Ukraine cannot. Thats the difference between aggressor and defender. Trying to push ruZzIan propaganda as if its the opposite exposes your foreign agent handler 😅

Edited March 8 by yishunite

[inlinesix]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:51 PM, Sturtles said:

For once, I agree with you.

That said, there is a consequence for every action. 

Though it is illegal for Russia to invade Ukraine, or Crimea even, it does mean invasion of other's sovereign territory is not possible.

Ukraine failed to calculate their odds for the sovereign decision.

The same goes for the genocidal retaliation from Israel when Hamas terrorised the settlers across Gazanian borders.

This is why we need to have a strong SAF, and not throw in the towel and be defenceless like Vatican, Maldives etc.

For countries with small population, every mother's son and daughter need to be part of the defence. 

The consequence however, is deadly, and should not be lightly chosen. 

Because for it could be difference between being cleansed from the face of earth and surviving.

More specifically, we have a strong RSAF and RSN.

F35 is to send a message.

[Sturtles]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:49 PM, yishunite said:

Putin can stop fighting any time he likes. Ukraine cannot. Thats the difference between aggressor and defender. Trying to push ruZzIan propaganda as if its the opposite exposes your foreign agent handler 😅

 

Let's have a recess and talk about this instead.

 

In what scenario or circumstance, will Ukraine win the war.?

Note : Conditions cannot exist in vacuum, and the chain effects must be considered. 

 

I offer my 2 cents : Putin dies and a pro-west Ruskie takes over.

Your take?

 

[yishunite]

On 3/8/2024 at 3:09 PM, Sturtles said:

 

Let's have a recess and talk about this instead.

 

In what scenario or circumstance, will Ukraine win the war.?

Note : Conditions cannot exist in vacuum, and the chain effects must be considered. 

 

I offer my 2 cents : Putin dies and a pro-west Ruskie takes over.

Your take?

 

When Russians discover what a total ruin the war economy has been and left them decades behind economically compare to their neighbours who chose economic prosperity through peace