First time buyer looking to buy Avante / Elantra / Vios / Shuttle

[13177]

2 hours ago, yishunite said:

If you still think Vios is vfm in Singapore you are at least 10 years out of date.

Since Koreans up their game, Vios just looks like an expensive pile of crap. At its price better upgrade to Altis or go Korean.

Speaking as former Vios owner

I think vios only vfm in 2004 era, i stop at that year of vios. Any vios after that i dont find nice anymore. Esp recent years vios definitely not vfm, and also can see not many people buy vios and most vios on the road usually is PHV. People nowadays would go for korean cars or if they die die want a toyota, they would go for altis. 

[yellowshaun]

110k can buy u the top of the line Cerato and avante... or the vios with the plasticky interior...

the 2019 onward vios mileage also no longer fantastic, rarely anybody in the vios group record better than 13+km/l...

[Comage]

On 2/21/2022 at 1:37 AM, Eklips said:

Thanks for the tips.

Think dealer will do something about it if its that chui if not cannot sell right? Or seller will do it up to fetch better price if not dealer also will not take it such chui car.

 

Forking out 2 to 5k to do up a coe car is still cheap getting a parf car??

Judging from your responses, you're still very new to all of this car buying. 

Buying a used COE car is not the same as buying a used PARF car. Many used COE cars are in very poor condition, and most are in dismal condition fit for the scrap yard. 

You're bound to get a lemon if you go in without a friend who knows his car stuff. 

There's a difference between someone saying they "owned a COE car(no problem la!)", when all they did is bought when it was a PARF car, and drove it until they renew it to a COE car, versus someone who goes in straight and buys the COE car at its 10th year. 

Buying a COE car right off the bat is like going into hell and trying to find that one gem buried in the sand. Dealers will all tell you the car is sold as-is, so don't come back the next day claiming warranty or lemon law if it breaks down.

Suggest you stick with PARF cars if you're inexperienced... 

[Eklips]

1 hour ago, Comage said:

Judging from your responses, you're still very new to all of this car buying. 

Buying a used COE car is not the same as buying a used PARF car. Many used COE cars are in very poor condition, and most are in dismal condition fit for the scrap yard. 

You're bound to get a lemon if you go in without a friend who knows his car stuff. 

There's a difference between someone saying they "owned a COE car(no problem la!)", when all they did is bought when it was a PARF car, and drove it until they renew it to a COE car, versus someone who goes in straight and buys the COE car at its 10th year. 

Buying a COE car right off the bat is like going into hell and trying to find that one gem buried in the sand. Dealers will all tell you the car is sold as-is, so don't come back the next day claiming warranty or lemon law if it breaks down.

Suggest you stick with PARF cars if you're inexperienced... 

@Comagehahahah. ya, im s totally New bird to this car buying thingy. 

Ya, currently looking at PARF car as wife preferred. Looking at 2 to 3 yr old car for a start with lesser problem.

[lexiton]

if me i will choose elantra

 

more futuristic

[Mkl22]

10 minutes ago, yishunite said:

Camp sgcarmart for direct seller. U know they know they got low COE. Sell to dealer u know they know they will kena makan. Nego as best u can around current car prevailing depre

Must also be smart about direct seller. Quite a few dealers masquerading as direct seller to get away from lemon law. 
So you need to ask pertinent questions to avoid Kenna ketok by a dealer posing as a direct seller. 

[Comage]

1 hour ago, yishunite said:

Camp sgcarmart for direct seller. U know they know they got low COE. Sell to dealer u know they know they will kena makan. Nego as best u can around current car prevailing depre

I don't think this really works the way we believe it should work (in theory)...

We see markups of cars selling for +$20-$30k above the Dereg. value, even for Direct Owner vehicles, and even for COE vehicles.

Personally, I don't mind paying this "premium" above the Dereg. value for a used car, but please bloody hell make sure NOTHING needs to be changed (not even the wear and tear parts) for AT LEAST the next 1-2 years.

What I hate is that dealers charge such a premium for used vehicle, and the same day you drive off to your favourite workshop for an honest assessment, the verdict is that the wear-and-tear parts come up to a few thousand dollars easily! And more are on its way out in < 6 months!

So wtf am I paying you for - the dealer - in that range of $20k-odd surplus on top of the dereg value? I/We/Consumers should pay only at most a few Gs on top of the dereg value! And please don't talk about what parking fee la, holding fee la, servicing fee la - there was NOTHING done to the car obviously when the previous guy came in to your dealership to let go of the car to you! Even +$500 for washing the car exterior and engine bay plus undercarriage is an overkill amount to pay.

[Eklips]

After reading through numerous pages in MCF. My wife thinks that it's quite ok to buy brand new car at current high coe.

Next time will coe drop, still can fetch a good price and use it as DP for the next new car.

So now is seller market? More supply than demand?

Low coe = high demand = buyer market?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Thanks 

 

PS planning to go test drive avante creato and PI shuttle.

I read the PI car not that good??

Edited February 23, 2022 by Eklips

[Eklips]

3 minutes ago, yishunite said:

TS alrdy many ppl ask u what is your budget. $40k downpayment + $2k/month?

"Next time" u wont get a good price. Yes paper value will be high relative to other cars paper value (immediately u walk out of showroom you $110k Vios paper value only about $65k) but that is still a major loss in value... in fact hard to sell your car later when brand new will have lower depre than your used car

I'm sorry that I didn't specify my DP + installment. Looking at 55k+ 800mthly?

Noted, shall go re think again. Or is it more worth to get a 1 to 3 Yr old car? But I see like they also increase their price to match the current raising coe.

 

[Eklips]

5 minutes ago, awhtc said:

 

My gut feel is 2023-2024 COE will be even higher.  Beyond 2024 there is good chance the COE prices could correct back to the $60-$80k territory but car prices may not fall back as much if more new taxes kick in or subsidies removed.  So it is still okay to buy a Cat A car if you need one.

PI who can still survive until today are quite strong.  General rule is not to place excessive deposit upon ordering and well before taking delivery.  I only placed $10k deposit for the COE bidding and full amount a few days before taking physical delivery after verifying the car is in Singapore and cleared LTA paper work.

Thanks for the advise.

I also do feel that coe will cont to raise even further and make historical high.

But it will be stable around 60k mark CAT A in 2 to 3 yrs time? So it will not be that hard to sell if want to?

[Comage]

1 hour ago, awhtc said:

2nd hand car dealers and buyers will press down your car price to just above your expensive paper value if you sell when COE drops significantly.

If it is just a car for point A to B that is required, it is better to look for a popular 2nd hand car (Toyota or Honda) with a 10-year COE renewed around 2019 as this batch has the lowest PQPs.  Thereafter, spend $4-6k to repair (e.g. change suspensions and oils) and rejuvenate (e.g. leather seats and head unit) inside out.

If you want a new car that is value for money, PI is the way to go as they have lower overhead than AD.

In theory it sounds like a good idea as you suggested, but in reality it is going to be weekly trips down to the workshop to fix  up the car, part by part. 

As I advised TS in my earlier post, buying a COE car from the 10th year onwards is not the same as buying a used PARF car. 

Suspension needs a replacement? You need new drive shaft oil seals.

Wheels clunking when you drive? You need new wheel bearings. And then a realignment. And then new tie rods, stabilizer links, etc.

Engine oil "burning up" mysteriously? You need a new head gasket, new flywheel oil seals, front engine oil seals. 

Alternator going kaputt soon? You need a new fan belt on top of that, because the existing one is crumbling too. 

Engine overheating? OK, change the radiator... But oh shit, now the radiator lines sprung a leak after dismantling, so you're gonna need new ones as well. 

Gears shifting poorly? OK let do an ATF change first... Eh once we drop the transmission pan, you're gonna need a new gasket for the pan as well. No stocks leh boss, must wait another day for stock to come first!

Many workshops now are facing a manpower crunch, and work like the above to "rejuvenate" the car is going to take at least 5 x full working days... Something which many workshops will outright refuse to do because "one shot do all" doesn't give them the maximum profits. Plus your COE car's gonna be up there on the lift for 3-4 days - sorry hor boss, cannot. I do oil change 30mins for $128++ yields me a higher profit than your 1 car sit there 4 days for a $4-6k job... 

So this means multiple trips across the span of the first couple months. 

Do you have that time and energy to shuttle back and forth the workshop like this? 

 

[Comage]

2 hours ago, awhtc said:

No choice if one wants to save money 😅

I will dump $4-6k at one go to a few workshops using first 2-3 weeks for preventive maintenance.

Yeah agree, it'll save some money down the road, at the expense of burning your own time. 

In the end, owning a car (new or used) is about time and money. 

Buy new, save time but spend more money. 

Buy used, save money but spend more time. 

Can't run away from this zero sum game. 

[Eklips]

True, is spend spend spend. Spend money or time only. 

[neoki_29]

Spend more buy new, less headaches 😊

[Tkseah]

Buy new now for lesser headache.. but consider to sell it off in a couple of years if COE drop significantly.. then buy another new one..

[yellowshaun]

20 hours ago, Eklips said:

After reading through numerous pages in MCF. My wife thinks that it's quite ok to buy brand new car at current high coe.

Next time will coe drop, still can fetch a good price and use it as DP for the next new car.

So now is seller market? More supply than demand?

Low coe = high demand = buyer market?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Thanks 

 

PS planning to go test drive avante creato and PI shuttle.

I read the PI car not that good??

Do check whats the diff in depre for brand new versus 1-3 years old. When i bought it was about $100-200 difference cause of the insanely high mark up by used car dealers.

You can also narrow your search to used cars that have been fully serviced at the authorized dealer, so you can verify (with the seller's assistance) the accident and service record and mileage.

[Eklips]

1 hour ago, yellowshaun said:

Do check whats the diff in depre for brand new versus 1-3 years old. When i bought it was about $100-200 difference cause of the insanely high mark up by used car dealers.

You can also narrow your search to used cars that have been fully serviced at the authorized dealer, so you can verify (with the seller's assistance) the accident and service record and mileage.

Noted. If diff is not much,maybe less than 1k, better go for brand new? Or used as the overall is lesser?

[Eklips]

Also, the recent coe increase but brand new car price dropped (avante) however used car increase. Why ah?