Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales

[DOBIEMKZ]

Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales.

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes. 

https://eurasiantimes.com/saab-gripen-rips-apart-chinese-j-11-fighters-in-war-games-experts-call-them-sitting-ducks-for-rafales/

Details of the Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, held at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces, were revealed in 2019.

While the Chinese PLA Air Force (PLAAF) brought J-11 to the wargame, the Thai Air Force deployed Swedish Saab JAS-39C/D Gripens, though it also operates the American F-16s.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.
This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

Gripen Vs J-11

The Saab JAS 39 Gripen is a Swedish fourth-generation single-engine multirole fighter jet that took its first flight in 1988 and entered service in 1996. With a speed of Mach 2, the Gripens have been sold to six nations across Central Europe, South Africa, and Southeast Asia.

The C/D model that the Thailand Air Force operates, is a NATO-compatible version with extended capabilities in terms of armament, electronics, etc. which can be also refueled in flight.

On the other hand, China’s J-11 fighter is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27. The J-11 is a twin-engine jet that took its first flight in 1998.

With its multiple variants and upgrades like the missile approach warning system (MAWS), the improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles, the J-11s have become a significant part of the Chinese Air Force with more than 400 in service while the Navy operates around 70 of the fighters.

The EurAsian Times earlier reported how China is continuing research and development of the J-11 fighter, which might affect the future of its J-10 aircraft.

SAAB Gripens Destroy Chinese J-11s

Across seven days of the exercise, the Chinese jets gave a subpar performance, leading many analysts to cast doubts over China’s aerial capabilities.

During the first two days of the war game, the powerful J-11s shot down 16 Gripens in a visual-range battle with no loss.

Reports suggest that the Thai Gripen was armed with AIM-9 infrared-guided missiles and an internal cannon for close-range combat while the J-11s were armed with infrared-guided short-range missiles — the PL-8s.

However, on the following days, as the game shifted to beyond-visual-range engagements, the Gripen armed with AIM-120 medium-range missiles proved to be a far better fighter than the J-11 with its own medium-range missiles, possibly PL-12s.

The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.

Interestingly, military analysts observed that Gripens outperformed the J-11s in terms of the range given how 88% of the Thai kills occurred at a range of at least 19 miles, while the Chinese scored just 14% of their kills at the same range.

The Gripens also scored 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles where the J-11s scored no kills. The Aviation website Alert 5 noted how the Chinese pilots had poor situational awareness.

“Too much focus was on the front of the aircraft rather than all around. In phases of the war game where J-11s escorted other planes, there was a lack of coordination,” the website said.

“Chinese pilots were not experienced in avoiding missile shots, their responses were too mechanical and [they] could not judge correctly the evasive techniques for missiles with different ranges,” Alert 5 added.

India Rafales

The struggle of Chinese jets against the fourth-generation Gripen has thrilled Indian military analysts given the Indian Air Force now hosts two squadrons of the 4.5 generation French-made Rafales.

Amid the ongoing standoff between India and China at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, experts have started speculating how Indian Rafales will fare against the Chinese aircraft, especially with their fifth-generation J-20.

The Rafales are combat-proven multirole aircraft that have been used by the French Air Force for its missions in the Middle East while the J-20 has not been deployed in any conflict zones as yet. With a capacity of carrying six AASM missiles, the Rafales outflank the J-20 in terms of weapons, fuel, and combat experience.

The EurAsian Times earlier published a report in which Former IAF pilot Vijainder K Thakur compared the stealthy J-20 to Indian Rafales, in case of potential aerial combat.

“The stealth advantage of the J-20 would give it a ‘first see, first shoot’ advantage in BVR combat over all Indian fighters except for the Rafale,” he said.

However, he added that against the Rafale which is equipped with low RCS, Spectra self-protection suite with RF cloaking, and Meteor 150-km BVR missile, J-20 will find it extremely hard to defeat the fighter.

Edited August 11, 2021 by DOBIEMKZ

[Mustank]

Heng never go taobao buy

these guys so rich, they destroy you with money then you know ah

Edited August 11, 2021 by Mustank

[DOBIEMKZ]

12 minutes ago, Mustank said:

Heng never go taobao buy

these guys so rich, they destroy you with money then you know ah

Doesn't look good for the sales of their J-series fighter jets for export markets.

May be they can throw in some promotions to entice customers.

[macrosszero]

Headline is misleading if read in isolation.

Keep in mind that BVR engagements are the exception not the norm, as it would indicate all-out open conflict. Most times it would still be necessary to get into visual range to confirm a hostile. It is clear the weapon system bestowed an advantage to the Swedish fighter. The J-11 is a huge fighter compared to the JAS-39 yet in close-in combat the J-11 came out top with no losses. 

The J-11 would be extremely formidable if they manage to acquire a missile with the capability of the AIM-120. 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Macrosszero

[Mustank]

5 minutes ago, DOBIEMKZ said:

Doesn't look good for the sales of their J-series fighter jets for export markets.

May be they can throw in some promotions to entice customers.

Now everywhere not enough chips

Got airplane no chip also no use

[Atonchia]

54 minutes ago, DOBIEMKZ said:

Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales.

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes. 

https://eurasiantimes.com/saab-gripen-rips-apart-chinese-j-11-fighters-in-war-games-experts-call-them-sitting-ducks-for-rafales/

Details of the Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, held at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces, were revealed in 2019.

While the Chinese PLA Air Force (PLAAF) brought J-11 to the wargame, the Thai Air Force deployed Swedish Saab JAS-39C/D Gripens, though it also operates the American F-16s.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.
This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

Gripen Vs J-11

The Saab JAS 39 Gripen is a Swedish fourth-generation single-engine multirole fighter jet that took its first flight in 1988 and entered service in 1996. With a speed of Mach 2, the Gripens have been sold to six nations across Central Europe, South Africa, and Southeast Asia.

The C/D model that the Thailand Air Force operates, is a NATO-compatible version with extended capabilities in terms of armament, electronics, etc. which can be also refueled in flight.

On the other hand, China’s J-11 fighter is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27. The J-11 is a twin-engine jet that took its first flight in 1998.

With its multiple variants and upgrades like the missile approach warning system (MAWS), the improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles, the J-11s have become a significant part of the Chinese Air Force with more than 400 in service while the Navy operates around 70 of the fighters.

The EurAsian Times earlier reported how China is continuing research and development of the J-11 fighter, which might affect the future of its J-10 aircraft.

SAAB Gripens Destroy Chinese J-11s

Across seven days of the exercise, the Chinese jets gave a subpar performance, leading many analysts to cast doubts over China’s aerial capabilities.

During the first two days of the war game, the powerful J-11s shot down 16 Gripens in a visual-range battle with no loss.

Reports suggest that the Thai Gripen was armed with AIM-9 infrared-guided missiles and an internal cannon for close-range combat while the J-11s were armed with infrared-guided short-range missiles — the PL-8s.

However, on the following days, as the game shifted to beyond-visual-range engagements, the Gripen armed with AIM-120 medium-range missiles proved to be a far better fighter than the J-11 with its own medium-range missiles, possibly PL-12s.

The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.

Interestingly, military analysts observed that Gripens outperformed the J-11s in terms of the range given how 88% of the Thai kills occurred at a range of at least 19 miles, while the Chinese scored just 14% of their kills at the same range.

The Gripens also scored 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles where the J-11s scored no kills. The Aviation website Alert 5 noted how the Chinese pilots had poor situational awareness.

“Too much focus was on the front of the aircraft rather than all around. In phases of the war game where J-11s escorted other planes, there was a lack of coordination,” the website said.

“Chinese pilots were not experienced in avoiding missile shots, their responses were too mechanical and [they] could not judge correctly the evasive techniques for missiles with different ranges,” Alert 5 added.

India Rafales

The struggle of Chinese jets against the fourth-generation Gripen has thrilled Indian military analysts given the Indian Air Force now hosts two squadrons of the 4.5 generation French-made Rafales.

Amid the ongoing standoff between India and China at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, experts have started speculating how Indian Rafales will fare against the Chinese aircraft, especially with their fifth-generation J-20.

The Rafales are combat-proven multirole aircraft that have been used by the French Air Force for its missions in the Middle East while the J-20 has not been deployed in any conflict zones as yet. With a capacity of carrying six AASM missiles, the Rafales outflank the J-20 in terms of weapons, fuel, and combat experience.

The EurAsian Times earlier published a report in which Former IAF pilot Vijainder K Thakur compared the stealthy J-20 to Indian Rafales, in case of potential aerial combat.

“The stealth advantage of the J-20 would give it a ‘first see, first shoot’ advantage in BVR combat over all Indian fighters except for the Rafale,” he said.

However, he added that against the Rafale which is equipped with low RCS, Spectra self-protection suite with RF cloaking, and Meteor 150-km BVR missile, J-20 will find it extremely hard to defeat the fighter.

Wah... 

Meteor 150km BVR.... 

This type like the AIM120 is after takeoff in Singapore can start shooting target in South China Sea already. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Atonchia

[Watwheels]

I read with a pinch of salt cos when it comes to military hardware it is down to large numbers, tactics and training. LoL...

[Thaiyotakamli]

The writer….

https://eurasiantimes.com/author/apoorvajain/

[ToyotaShuttle]

Quote

Details of the Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, held at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces, were revealed in 2019.

huh? now is 2021. any news?

[DOBIEMKZ]

13 minutes ago, Thaiyotakamli said:

The writer….

https://eurasiantimes.com/author/apoorvajain/

She is biased indeed.
Trying to flame the fire in the current Sino-India tension. 

 

[DOBIEMKZ]

11 minutes ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

huh? now is 2021. any news?

I would like to see F-16 Block 70/72 or F-16V vs J-10C. 

[Scion]

i rather the superpowers spend less on military and more on space exploration

maybe a super fast satellite that can reach another galaxy in under 50 years 😁 

[Beregond]

Just now, Scion said:

i rather the superpowers spend less on military and more on space exploration

maybe a super fast satellite that can reach another galaxy in under 50 years 😁 

too early to talk about other galaxy now.

in my life time can see population on moon or mars then very fast liao🤣

[Atrecord]

17 minutes ago, Scion said:

i rather the superpowers spend less on military and more on space exploration

maybe a super fast satellite that can reach another galaxy in under 50 years 😁 

i rather the superpowers spend less on military and more on medicine and healthcare. If that had happened 100 years ago, we might have fewer incurable diseases now lor... and coronaviruses might not be as scary...

[t0y0ta]

The source is an Indian online newspaper.

Obviously you can see them adding salt/pepper/spice/lenthils into the event in this era of Indo-China tensions.

Basically controlled war games, the Saabs unexpectedly held their own against the Chinese jets in some areas.

The writer can spin until machiam Honda Civic can outrun M3.

LOLLLLLL

[Mkl22]

1 hour ago, Thaiyotakamli said:

The writer….

https://eurasiantimes.com/author/apoorvajain/

why am i not surprised.  hahaha

Same nonsense when it comes to defending their POS tank, Arjun.

[Mkl22]

2 minutes ago, t0y0ta said:

The source is an Indian online newspaper.

Obviously you can see them adding salt/pepper/spice/lenthils into the event in this era of Indo-China tensions.

Basically controlled war games, the Saabs unexpectedly held their own against the Chinese jets in some areas.

The writer can spin until machiam Honda Civic can outrun M3.

LOLLLLLL

you give them too much credit... should be TATA Nano outrun M3.

[Nolicense]

1 hour ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

huh? now is 2021. any news?

based on the above, i would think the plaaf would remedy by developing a better mid range missile. if they have not then too bad. but 6 years is not say a long time or short time in the development cycle.. just that we dont know the thai scenario of this war game and if it is relevant if transplanted into the indian-chinese border area of op