Thoughts on the BYD e6?

[inlinesix]

14 minutes ago, Didu said:

Last time my old cellphone also can swap its battery. I had a pair of them to inter-change and kept my phone up and running with minimal down time. Nothing wrong with that concept. Only the phone shops doing less business with battery replacement for customers.

Your phone battery is 10gram.

EV battery is 300kg

[Didu]

14 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Your phone battery is 10gram.

EV battery is 300kg

That's why they have machines to do the swapping, not human. But conceptually, it's the same.

[Ceecookie]

130km/h top speed? Can you imagine trying to sell this to consumer when even some lorries' top speed is faster than that 🤣

[Brass]

12 minutes ago, Ceecookie said:

130km/h top speed? Can you imagine trying to sell this to consumer when even some lorries' top speed is faster than that 🤣

Most ev are not built for speed.

I think the Renault Zoe or even the Ioniq also has such a problem too.

[thatJDMahboy]

18 hours ago, mersaylee said:

NIO offers battery rental instead of purchase...another revenue source? 

Read it somewhere that EV manufacturers are also looking into pitstop style of battery swop service for those with limited charging facility...

The ecosystem for the EV market is still evolving...but this bandwagon is not slowing down...

Im guessing by doing so, they are trying to remove the “inconvenient” battery charging barrier to EV adoption which is pretty ingenious of them to do so

[inlinesix]

12 hours ago, Didu said:

That's why they have machines to do the swapping, not human. But conceptually, it's the same.

The cost of swap station is 100 times of charging station.

Unlikely to implement here.

[thatJDMahboy]

11 hours ago, Brass said:

Most ev are not built for speed.

I think the Renault Zoe or even the Ioniq also has such a problem too.

Well, I would think speed or top speed will not pose as an issue to us, considering the speed limit and numerous traffic lights here etc🤣

Ngl, I am low-key looking forward to experiencing the instantaneous torque of EVs🤭 

[inlinesix]

12 hours ago, Ceecookie said:

130km/h top speed? Can you imagine trying to sell this to consumer when even some lorries' top speed is faster than that 🤣

 

11 hours ago, Brass said:

Most ev are not built for speed.

I think the Renault Zoe or even the Ioniq also has such a problem too.

 

Just now, thatJDMahboy said:

Well, I would think speed or top speed will pose as an issue to us, considering the speed limit and numerous traffic lights here etc🤣

Ngl, I am low-key looking forward to experiencing the instantaneous torque of EVs🤭 

That’s why Taycan has 2 speed GB.

Unlike most EV

[Ishiwgao]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

The cost of swap station is 100 times of charging station.

Unlikely to implement here.

It's not 100x more.

Nio's charging station costs around $232k, while a DC fast charging costs around $50k for one charging port. It's still 4x more, so I agree with you a swapping station is not cheap.

But don't forget that a battery swap takes only 3 minutes, while a DC fast charger will take at least 15 mins at 350kW to fully charge a Tesla (if Tesla's could charge that high now). This means that the efficiency of 1 swapping station is at least 5x more than a charging port, and I feel that justifies the extra cost. 

While it's not exactly related, other benefits of a swapping station is that having so many batteries there allows the battery station to function as an electricity grid storage function (equivalent to Tesla's Megapack). So the battery swap station operator is also having additional business revenue by working with electricity companies to smooth out the electricity flow or help provide power in a blackout. similar to Tesla's Megapack in Australia. 

The business opportunity of a swapping station is great. The drawback is not enough cars to use them. In Shanghai they're doing well, but you won't see any swapping stations around for a while. 

[boonhat_91]

4 hours ago, thatJDMahboy said:

Ngl, I am low-key looking forward to experiencing the instantaneous torque of EVs🤭 

Book your nearest BlueSG nao

[t0y0ta]

5 hours ago, Ishiwgao said:

It's not 100x more.

Nio's charging station costs around $232k, while a DC fast charging costs around $50k for one charging port. It's still 4x more, so I agree with you a swapping station is not cheap.

But don't forget that a battery swap takes only 3 minutes, while a DC fast charger will take at least 15 mins at 350kW to fully charge a Tesla (if Tesla's could charge that high now). This means that the efficiency of 1 swapping station is at least 5x more than a charging port, and I feel that justifies the extra cost. 

While it's not exactly related, other benefits of a swapping station is that having so many batteries there allows the battery station to function as an electricity grid storage function (equivalent to Tesla's Megapack). So the battery swap station operator is also having additional business revenue by working with electricity companies to smooth out the electricity flow or help provide power in a blackout. similar to Tesla's Megapack in Australia. 

The business opportunity of a swapping station is great. The drawback is not enough cars to use them. In Shanghai they're doing well, but you won't see any swapping stations around for a while. 

Swapping station is not as simple as you think.

You need to manage the demand and supply. If demand is too high, you may run out of charged or even half charged batteries to supply.

Also you need all batteries to be similar or compatible. Today even within the same brand, different models have different batteries. And the battery design need to be made possible for hot-swap, it is not just 3 power terminals, there are also coolant supply lines that need to be dis/re-connected.

Similar to handphones, to optimize the design - batteries changed from generic (AA/AAA) to proprietary replaceable (Nokia, Samsung) and by now all become integrated non-replaceable. It will be the same for EV design as the demands for better packaging, lighter weight and more efficiency override everything else.

I believe the future is just lots of charging station....

[Ishiwgao]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:11 PM, Ishiwgao said:

I've driven the car before, and I wrote a few posts in MCF on BYD's battery tech before. just to summarize here

• e6 is a vehicle built by BYD for fleet business. it's a cheap car with quality in areas related to being a fleet car (e.g. high powertrain durability, good safety, spacious etc.), but don't expect quality anything else (not good driving feel, slower acceleration even for an EV, headunit interface not spectacular etc). And that's why it's so cheap. 
• BYD's current generation of battery (Blade battery) used in the e6 and other models is really an innovative technology. It's still heavier than other car brands, but that because they are using the LFP battery chemistry that is heavier but safer (very low fire hazard) compared to other brands like Tesla and Nissan and Hyundai that uses lighter batteries but more prone to fire hazard should anything happen.
• You can charge using any EV charger in Singapore, no special interface needed. The only concern is which charger you choose, the faster ones will take about 1hour ish, enough to go lunch and coffee one day a week while your car is charging. 

Overall, to answer your questions, i don't think this will be the "mainstream" car because i think people would prefer a better driving experience when switching to an EV. If I have a smaller budget but need a car to transport my big family around, I would consider buying this car over another big SUV or MPV (in fact, i think this is the cheapest MPV in Singapore). But if I wanted a car to drive and feel great inside, it wouldn't be on my list 

Here's a recent news article to support my stance on BYD's blade battery performance 

Tesla is going to buy BYD's blade batteries for future Tesla cars. Tesla is probably just trying to get as much batteries as they can source, so we can't say that BYD's batteries are better than Tesla, but we can agree that BYD's blade battery is at least as good as Tesla needs it to be to be used in a (most likely entry model) Tesla. 

https://electrek.co/2021/08/05/tesla-buy-byd-blade-batteries/

 

[Hosaybo]

IMO, Swapping station cost is just one of the  issue. Personally, this is something that will be driven alot by the gov policy and decision, not the car distributor. This is because none is in such dominating position to push it forth solely, none is popular enough to be everyone choice ( how to cater for different battery type? Is there a standard???) and most how to influence on the integration with the grid? Market is also too small. Tesla used to push for this idea back in 2013 but decide against it after a few years, .

Considering these issues, I dun think is a likely outcome for private cars but may make sense for commercial fleet (eg. Taxi, buses etc where downtime= $$$). Companies like comfort can go into partnership and changed their fleet and built such stations at strategic locations around SG. Strategic tie up with a distributor, it may be a viable  option. ( Eg Maybe Hyundai partner with comfort, sell them fleets at good price. Comfort built such swap stations and also extend to service not just their own fleet but private fleet to achieve economic of scales. Hyundai can then have the option to convince private buyers without heavy investment). 

 

 

[Carbon82]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:31 PM, inlinesix said:

The car is sold without Battery.

Car owners can do charging or battery swap.

Battery sold separately, isn't that what we are very familiar with since our childhood days...

OK back to the topic, since Li-ion battery accounted for ~30% of the cost of an EV, selling EV without battery may lower the price significantly after taking into consideration of the vehicle tax regime here.

I am more concern with reliability and insurance matter arising, say if there is a fire triggered by the battery component, will the owner of the car without battery allowed to claim for a new car from the battery provider? 

[definitions75]

@Xers007 tesla buying 10gwh BYD blade battery .. whos laughing now.. 

[definitions75]

@Hamburger you have no clue.. in china.. combined sales.. BYD Han outsold tesla 

[Jamesc]

China cars are the future

Buy buy buy bye bye

[Xers007]

6 hours ago, definitions75 said:

@Xers007 tesla buying 10gwh BYD blade battery .. whos laughing now.. 

Both laughing to the bank...