2021 Hyundai Ioniq 5 EV

[inlinesix]

16 minutes ago, Gliazzurra said:

But hydrogen cars don't have range issue in the first place cause the refill is done in 5 mins, similar as gas..

Currently, hydrogen car & BEV has about the same range.

Globally, hydrogen has limited refill station.

Toyota Mirai starts from US$50k

Tesla Model 3 starts from US$29k.

[boonhat_91]

4 hours ago, yishunite said:

I would be damn scared of hydrogen cars knowing there are Tanjong Pagar racers out there

Electric cars no different, some more the fire notoriously hard to extinguish. Instant M4-like acceleration at a fraction of the price, scary too.

[teomingern]

10 hours ago, yishunite said:

I would be damn scared of hydrogen cars knowing there are Tanjong Pagar racers out there

You have them everywhere lor... I always avoid... ha ha...

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/2/2021 at 10:57 AM, boonhat_91 said:

Road tax never had any logic one.. Even among ICE car they all roughly occupy the same space regardless of engine size, yet there is differentiation based on engine cap.

You raise some pretty good points.. The small-ness of our city is quite fixed, therefore SG is actually a great place for large scale EV adoption.

That said, car-lite is the endgame here. Gov isn't gonna move middle/low-incomers to electric, rather, the goal is to move them to public transport.

You might have also strengthened the argument for car-lite. Why invest heavily into EV infrastructure if hydrogen is the "real future"? Maybe by the time I invest in hydrogen infrastructure there is a new tech that is the "real future". Instead of constantly playing catchup with greener solutions for private transport, why not axe private transport altogether? It would cost less to keep up investments into greening public transport only.

Besides physical size, you forgot about emissions. Our road tax assumes that the higher engine capacity will produce more emissions. 

[teomingern]

On 3/4/2021 at 10:43 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Besides physical size, you forgot about emissions. Our road tax assumes that the higher engine capacity will produce more emissions. 

I thought it's measured? Not presumed to be such? That's where the VES kicks in to discount the tax? Is that how it's supposed to be understood? Tax breaks for more efficient propulsion methods?

Edited March 8, 2021 by teomingern

[Lethalstrike]

14 minutes ago, teomingern said:

I thought it's measured? Not presumed to be such? That's where the VES kicks in to discount the tax? Is that how it's supposed to be understood? Tax breaks for more efficient propulsion methods?

It's presumed to be such, historically. 

The road tax structure which you paid for accordingly to your engine cap and vehicle age has existed for a long time, way before CEVS/VES emissions scheme came into effect from 2013 onwards. How did they came to the conclusion that a higher cc engine is supposed to pay more than the lower cc engine back in those days? You would have guessed its due to emissions, engine power and physical size.

In those days, it's very rare that any automaker will put in a 3000cc engine into a A segment body. So the road tax structure back then simply assumes that a larger capacity engine would come with a bigger physical size and higher power with more emissions. Simply put, the invention of a BMW 7 series luxury sedan with a 1998cc (2.0L turbo) or a BMW M140i hatchback with a 2,998cc (3.0L turbo) are products of modern times. 

 

 

[velocity-]

1 hour ago, Lethalstrike said:

It's presumed to be such, historically. 

The road tax structure which you paid for accordingly to your engine cap and vehicle age has existed for a long time, way before CEVS/VES emissions scheme came into effect from 2013 onwards. How did they came to the conclusion that a higher cc engine is supposed to pay more than the lower cc engine back in those days? You would have guessed its due to emissions, engine power and physical size.

In those days, it's very rare that any automaker will put in a 3000cc engine into a A segment body. So the road tax structure back then simply assumes that a larger capacity engine would come with a bigger physical size and higher power with more emissions. Simply put, the invention of a BMW 7 series luxury sedan with a 1998cc (2.0L turbo) or a BMW M140i hatchback with a 2,998cc (3.0L turbo) are products of modern times. 

 

 

I always felt the EV roadtax was flawed and should be taxed either by a flat rate, or how much electricity it consumes.

I.e 10-15kwh/100km, band 1

     15.1-18kwh/100km, band 2

      18.1kwh/100km and more band 3.

 

After all with a small 100hp ev or a Porsche Taycan turbo S, if both driven at legal limits, I'm sure the emissions are still 0 and the energy used proabably differs by not more than 20%.

[Volvobrick]

9 minutes ago, velocity- said:

I always felt the EV roadtax was flawed and should be taxed either by a flat rate, or how much electricity it consumes.

I.e 10-15kwh/100km, band 1

     15.1-18kwh/100km, band 2

      18.1kwh/100km and more band 3.

 

After all with a small 100hp ev or a Porsche Taycan turbo S, if both driven at legal limits, I'm sure the emissions are still 0 and the energy used proabably differs by not more than 20%.

It's a luxury tax lah!  Higher power means more expensive and owner is licher and can be taxed more, just like the tiered ARF. Nothing so complicated. Nothing about emissions, efficiencies etc.

[inlinesix]

 

[teomingern]

7 hours ago, Volvobrick said:

It's a luxury tax lah!  Higher power means more expensive and owner is licher and can be taxed more, just like the tiered ARF. Nothing so complicated. Nothing about emissions, efficiencies etc.

So with all the odd configurations on the market now, taxes should be based on power output with OMV... plus emissions? Maybe how recyclable the car is, with emphasis on the battery?

[Fellows]

On 3/1/2021 at 9:59 AM, Newfamilyguy said:

Road tax is a pure unknown. Either government retain current road tax framework and phase out petrol car in next one to two decades (which I think could be possible) or lowered it to match petrol car. 

If they retain the current road tax framework and phase out car, it might force quite a number of people to not drive car, which fulfil their idea of car-lite. However, I hope they lower the road tax. 

The current outdated COE (via Horsepower/Engine CC) and road tax structure for EV cars don’t make any sense which is based on battery power output and its HP already more than 500HP. 

If only the Govt can give new first time EV cars users a special 10% off COE price, it might be attractive enough to make people buy EV cars. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Fellows

[inlinesix]

46 minutes ago, Fellows said:

The current outdated COE (via Horsepower/Engine CC) and road tax structure for EV cars don’t make any sense which is based on battery power output and its HP already more than 500HP. 

If only the Govt can give new first time EV cars users a special 10% off COE price, it might be attractive enough to make people buy EV cars. 

By 2030, it is either Hybrid or EV.

By 2040, it is EV only.

 

[Mkl22]

30 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

By 2030, it is either Hybrid or EV.

By 2040, it is EV only.

 

Means majority of asean built cars will not be coming in. Not that it matters

Edited March 20, 2021 by Mkl22

[teomingern]

14 hours ago, Mkl22 said:

Means majority of asean built cars will not be coming in. Not that it matters

ASEAN will probably start building EVs as a matter of course... Will still be lower cost, leading to lower prices...

[Mkl22]

48 minutes ago, teomingern said:

ASEAN will probably start building EVs as a matter of course... Will still be lower cost, leading to lower prices...

ASEAN cars are mainly built for domestic consumption. Don’t see actions by the countries to encourage EVs. 

[Crazy_turtle]

@Mkl22 car only around USD33k in the states. Why so expensive here is well known. Authorities must self reflect if want to talk about promoting EV. Matter of getting real or just talk kok

[teomingern]

On 4/7/2021 at 12:59 PM, Crazy_turtle said:

@Mkl22 car only around USD33k in the states. Why so expensive here is well known. Authorities must self reflect if want to talk about promoting EV. Matter of getting real or just talk kok

Firstly, cars will be expensive... that one is non-negotiable one... secondly, electric cars will never be as cheap as ICE cars cos the government will never allow - they allowed market forces to dictate COE premiums but it still didn't prevent car growth until they turned off the supply tap... thirdly, as policy kicks in on all fronts to be car-lite, and electric cars take over as the main form of private owner transport, price will remain high, otherwise how to be car-lite? So car-lite can never equal cheap car price... so I resign to not drive once this car's COE expires... cos even if renew COE, I don't think it will be affordable...

[Fellows]

The 800v charging station is also very cool, with cafe to let people chill while charging. 5mins of charge = 100km, Charge full at Sunday, then mid-week maybe after work or lunch break got park and charge 5-10min then drive home. Love the cyber silver colour! 

Only cost USD$33K (SGD$44000) after green rebate in Seoul for the long range single motor RWD version, really cheap af and most of us can easily afford if really is this kind of price. Side note: the digital side mirror is optional package based on different trim. 

It really sad that our country is damn f***ing small, blame Raffles…haha jk, which make our cars so expensive yet come with water down specification as always. Just imagine from the beginning, if whole of Johor and Singapore itself is one country, I think our car price will be very different today.  

If only (well in my dream) there is one time off COE discount of 25% for purchasing your first full EV, that will be so cool on top of all the EV rebate starting in 2022.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Fellows