OFFICIAL: Tesla Singapore Discussion

[Theoldjaffa]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:31 PM, Tianmo said:

Wait. I have not paid much attention to Tesla until very recently. 

So is this how Tesla work? Quote you their car price, less any rebate if there is any,  and you decide how much COE you want to bid. If COE drops you get your car at a lower total price, if COE goes up, you can request Tesla to increase your bid until you get it or give up?

Isn't this what many ppl have been asking for, instead of dealers acting like a market maker against you?

I don't know because I have never really gone into such details when I bought my cars, all I looked at was if I like the car and can I afford it, if ticks both boxes I sign.

 

bro, buy Tesla is like buying car from Shopee. very simpur one.

crick "orler now"

key in the COE amount u want to bid (or the recommended amount indicated by the TA)

tada! if coe is higher, "please try again"

else if coe is lower, you just pay the amount instead of what you bidded

[Tianmo]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:40 PM, Theoldjaffa said:

bro, buy Tesla is like buying car from Shopee. very simpur one.

crick "orler now"

key in the COE amount u want to bid (or the recommended amount indicated by the TA)

tada! if coe is higher, "please try again"

else if coe is lower, you just pay the amount instead of what you bidded

Thanks bro, so what he said is actually quite the true, why are ppl hammering him?

Of course other dealers got give back whatever rebate or not is also hard to say, because they say price after rebate also just have to accept, how to challenge.

 

[Theoldjaffa]

let me try to cuckulation to see if the dealer for BYD eat the EEAI and VES Rebate anot, and never pass down the full savings unlike Telsa

Above screenshot taken from sgcm.

Data provided by sgcm.

Calculator provided by iOS.

Fingers that do the tapping and typing are mine.

Total Basic Cost for a BYD Seal Premium

• OMV = 41,000
• Kastam Duty = 20% x OMV = 8,200
• GST = 9% x (OMV + Kastam duty) = 4,428
• ARF = (20,000 x 1) + (20,000 x 1.4) + (1,000 x 1.9) - 25,000 VES A1 - 15,000 EEAI = 9900
• Registration fee = 220
• COE = 112,000 (latest amount)
• VES Surcharge = 0
• Total 41,000 + 8,200 + 4,428 + 9,900 + 220 + 112,000 = 175,748
• Selling Price: 213,888
• Gross Margin: 38,140 (21.7%)

 

There's a note saying "Take note that in cases whereby the dealer is not the importer of the vehicle, the actual cost price of the car to the dealer will be significantly higher than the total basic cost." 

I dunno if Vantage is the importer or BYD Singapore Pte Ltd.. but if Vantage is not the importer then this could be what @Lethalstrike and @inlinesix are tokking about on the profit sharing and so the gross margin for Vantage is not 21.7%.

In that case, deducting showroom rental, staff salaries/commissions, other overheads etc.. the margin should be less than 20% for sure.

Questions

1. Are buyers being "taken for a ride" at this pricing level?
2. What is a reasonable amount to be considered not being taken for a ride?
3. Did Vantage give the full rebates or not ah?

[Tianmo]

On 1/22/2024 at 4:13 PM, inlinesix said:

From a consumer POV, i would rather pay more to G as I know I will get back in PARF (ignore the time value of money).

 

 

When it comes to numbers, I won't challenge you, since I know your background.

But this part I don't understand. Why would you want to pay more to the gov up front just to have it given back to you 10 years later without interest?

Whatever PARF the gov give you back is actually yours in the first place, they took your money, kept it for 10 years, and then give you back interest free, and you agree to it?

The worse part is if there is a loan, then you are paying interest on that PARF also, so you get back the sum without interest plus you paid interest to the bank on that sum, why would you agree to it. 

I would rather I get no PARF, give me back whatever rebate upfront, and let the vehicle has zero paper value. Even I just put those money in a savings acct also better than having to pay interest on it and getting it back interest free, and time value of money makes these money worse 10 years later.

 

[Theoldjaffa]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:55 PM, Tianmo said:

Thanks bro, so what he said is actually quite the true, why are ppl hammering him?

Of course other dealers got give back whatever rebate or not is also hard to say, because they say price after rebate also just have to accept, how to challenge.

 

bro see my cuckulation above. I'm also asking if Vantage is giving back the rebate or eat it.

buy car and need to drill down into details liddat.. very tao tia leh

but this is a necessary effort because some peepur dun want win-win. they must win and get the best deal and others must lose and eat grass.

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:09 PM, Theoldjaffa said:

let me try to cuckulation to see if the dealer for BYD eat the EEAI and VES Rebate anot, and never pass down the full savings unlike Telsa

Above screenshot taken from sgcm.

Data provided by sgcm.

Calculator provided by iOS.

Fingers that do the tapping and typing are mine.

Total Basic Cost for a BYD Seal Premium

• OMV = 41,000
• Kastam Duty = 20% x OMV = 8,200
• GST = 9% x (OMV + Kastam duty) = 4,428
• ARF = (20,000 x 1) + (20,000 x 1.4) + (1,000 x 1.9) - 25,000 VES A1 - 15,000 EEAI = 9900
• Registration fee = 220
• COE = 112,000 (latest amount)
• VES Surcharge = 0
• Total 41,000 + 8,200 + 4,428 + 9,900 + 220 + 112,000 = 175,748
• Selling Price: 213,888
• Gross Margin: 38,140 (21.7%)

 

There's a note saying "Take note that in cases whereby the dealer is not the importer of the vehicle, the actual cost price of the car to the dealer will be significantly higher than the total basic cost." 

I dunno if Vantage is the importer or BYD Singapore Pte Ltd.. but if Vantage is not the importer then this could be what @Lethalstrike and @inlinesix are tokking about on the profit sharing and so the gross margin for Vantage is not 21.7%.

In that case, deducting showroom rental, staff salaries/commissions, other overheads etc.. the margin should be less than 20% for sure.

Questions

1. Are buyers being "taken for a ride" at this pricing level?
2. What is a reasonable amount to be considered not being taken for a ride?
3. Did Vantage give the full rebates or not ah?

This one I don't know already, paiseh! I don't know of any insider working inside Vantage or BYD Singapore 🤣

[Lethalstrike]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:31 PM, Tianmo said:

Wait. I have not paid much attention to Tesla until very recently. 

So is this how Tesla work? Quote you their car price, less any rebate if there is any,  and you decide how much COE you want to bid. If COE drops you get your car at a lower total price, if COE goes up, you can request Tesla to increase your bid until you get it or give up?

Isn't this what many ppl have been asking for, instead of dealers acting like a market maker against you?

I don't know because I have never really gone into such details when I bought my cars, all I looked at was if I like the car and can I afford it, if ticks both boxes I sign.

 

Usually Tesla will ask you if you OK they bid for you at +$5k more on top of last CAT B COE amount. If you say you don't want to, they won't force you also just that you will get your car late or ever at all depending on the trend of CAT B COE. You want to pay full cash ala MCF style also can, with no additional top-ups. 

Insurance you ownself gao dim, they will tell you to get your own insurance in order by the time of stipulated delivery. Loan wise you can go through Tesla with DBS, UOB or OCBC at a very competitive 1.68%. 

Don't say I want to keep slamming Tesla hor, I know where they are transparent at and I don't dispute against facts 🤣

Edited January 23, 2024 by Lethalstrike

[inlinesix]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:09 PM, Tianmo said:

When it comes to numbers, I won't challenge you, since I know your background.

But this part I don't understand. Why would you want to pay more to the gov up front just to have it given back to you 10 years later without interest?

Whatever PARF the gov give you back is actually yours in the first place, they took your money, kept it for 10 years, and then give you back interest free, and you agree to it?

The worse part is if there is a loan, then you are paying interest on that PARF also, so you get back the sum without interest plus you paid interest to the bank on that sum, why would you agree to it. 

I would rather I get no PARF, give me back whatever rebate upfront, and let the vehicle has zero paper value. Even I just put those money in a savings acct also better than having to pay interest on it and getting it back interest free, and time value of money makes these money worse 10 years later.

Someone just gave me the perfect scenerio of 30k OMV with 30k margin vs 50k OMV.

For 50k OMV, need to pay $13k more initially.  At the end of 10 years, the difference is $5k.

I will agree with you from time value of money POV (that was my disclaimer😂).

For EV, the biggest worry is insurance claims.  it could be a total loss especially the need to go back to AD.

By having high OMV, it will cushion the loss.

EV is white goods to me.  No emotion 1.  Any reasonable one with less depreciation is good for me.

[Tianmo]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:11 PM, Theoldjaffa said:

bro see my cuckulation above. I'm also asking if Vantage is giving back the rebate or eat it.

buy car and need to drill down into details liddat.. very tao tia leh

but this is a necessary effort because some peepur dun want win-win. they must win and get the best deal and others must lose and eat grass.

Bro, can give me executive summary, if every car like that calculate I think I forever no need buy liao. 

 

[Theoldjaffa]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:40 PM, Tianmo said:

Bro, can give me executive summary, if every car like that calculate I think I forever no need buy liao. 

 

Sure bro

“Tesla give all rebates upfront”

Summarize enuff bo 😄

[hansmith]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:40 PM, Tianmo said:

Bro, can give me executive summary, if every car like that calculate I think I forever no need buy liao. 

 

I won't rehash the details but I will just give you the executive summary which I have stated before.

If you want the most value for your money and you want an EV and you don't want the vendor to make alot money from you, that deal is a Tesla.

If you don't care about the most value for your money and you don't care that the vendor makes quite a lot of money from you and you also don't care about future trade in, of course any EV goes.

Obviously, you have your own preferences such as features, brand name, aesthetics that you will have to consider as well.

Edited January 23, 2024 by hansmith

[hansmith]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:09 PM, Theoldjaffa said:

let me try to cuckulation to see if the dealer for BYD eat the EEAI and VES Rebate anot, and never pass down the full savings unlike Telsa

Above screenshot taken from sgcm.

Data provided by sgcm.

Calculator provided by iOS.

Fingers that do the tapping and typing are mine.

Total Basic Cost for a BYD Seal Premium

• OMV = 41,000
• Kastam Duty = 20% x OMV = 8,200
• GST = 9% x (OMV + Kastam duty) = 4,428
• ARF = (20,000 x 1) + (20,000 x 1.4) + (1,000 x 1.9) - 25,000 VES A1 - 15,000 EEAI = 9900
• Registration fee = 220
• COE = 112,000 (latest amount)
• VES Surcharge = 0
• Total 41,000 + 8,200 + 4,428 + 9,900 + 220 + 112,000 = 175,748
• Selling Price: 213,888
• Gross Margin: 38,140 (21.7%)

 

There's a note saying "Take note that in cases whereby the dealer is not the importer of the vehicle, the actual cost price of the car to the dealer will be significantly higher than the total basic cost." 

I dunno if Vantage is the importer or BYD Singapore Pte Ltd.. but if Vantage is not the importer then this could be what @Lethalstrike and @inlinesix are tokking about on the profit sharing and so the gross margin for Vantage is not 21.7%.

In that case, deducting showroom rental, staff salaries/commissions, other overheads etc.. the margin should be less than 20% for sure.

Questions

1. Are buyers being "taken for a ride" at this pricing level?
2. What is a reasonable amount to be considered not being taken for a ride?
3. Did Vantage give the full rebates or not ah?

1 and 2 is subjective and you can decide for yourself how much is a fair mark up to you.

3 is pretty clear since you already have the figures I would think.

By the way, registration fee has been increased by LTA.

Edited January 23, 2024 by hansmith

[inlinesix]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:40 PM, Tianmo said:

Bro, can give me executive summary, if every car like that calculate I think I forever no need buy liao. 

You only compare cars with price that are close to Tesla like 10k - 20k.

I don't calculate from the ground-up.  I am looking for LTA car cost breakdown (need to wait till Jan 2024).

Inside sgcarmart, there is price listing from each AD.

Sgcarmart may not show all prices.

For eg, BYD has 3 different price based on different COE rebate (from "in your dream" to "realistic").

[hansmith]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:55 PM, Tianmo said:

Thanks bro, so what he said is actually quite the true, why are ppl hammering him?

Of course other dealers got give back whatever rebate or not is also hard to say, because they say price after rebate also just have to accept, how to challenge.

 

I know what I am talking about so I don't really bother about other people's opinions if they are not correct. I try to educate, if they choose to accept it, nice. If not, it really doesn't matter to me. It's not my money and people are free to spend money how they wish. You can buy any car you want and not check any figures beforehand. Nobody is stopping anybody. But, obviously, that's not the best plan of attack.

On your point of challenging the dealer on the calculations I am taking about, no, you don't do that lah. It is meant to help you assess the price being offered for your vehicle of choice and decide whether you want to take it or not. You don't use it to go to the dealer and demand that they reduce their price.

[RadX]

Let me go play w my calculator 

[Rskc]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:40 PM, Theoldjaffa said:

bro, buy Tesla is like buying car from Shopee. very simpur one.

crick "orler now"

key in the COE amount u want to bid (or the recommended amount indicated by the TA)

tada! if coe is higher, "please try again"

else if coe is lower, you just pay the amount instead of what you bidded

Can't Tesla or any other ev with such transparency just jack up the car price and then show they give back eeai and ves? 😄

 

[Tianmo]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:15 PM, hansmith said:

I won't rehash the details but I will just give you the executive summary which I have stated before.

If you want the most value for your money and you want an EV and you don't want the vendor to make alot money from you, that deal is a Tesla.

If you don't care about the most value for your money and you don't care that the vendor makes quite a lot of money from you and you also don't care about future trade in, of course any EV goes.

Obviously, you have your own preferences such as features, brand name, aesthetics that you will have to consider as well.

I am a sucker for value for money, but I am not too bothered with how much the vendor is making from the sales. To me it is my perceived value of the product that counts, as long as I feel it is worth the dollar, that's all that is important to me, you can make a 80% GP or sell to me at a lose, I don't really care, that's your job not mine. 

EV trade in never in my mind, I mentioned before, EV, drive till scrap or drive to scrap, there is zero trade in value. So yah, I am also don't care about future trade in one. 

Like that does it means Tesla is not for me also?

 

[hansmith]

On 1/23/2024 at 8:22 PM, Tianmo said:

I am a sucker for value for money, but I am not too bothered with how much the vendor is making from the sales. To me it is my perceived value of the product that counts, as long as I feel it is worth the dollar, that's all that is important to me, you can make a 80% GP or sell to me at a lose, I don't really care, that's your job not mine. 

EV trade in never in my mind, I mentioned before, EV, drive till scrap or drive to scrap, there is zero trade in value. So yah, I am also don't care about future trade in one. 

Like that does it means Tesla is not for me also?

 

It's a personal decision and I can't answer for you.