OFFICIAL: Tesla Singapore Discussion

[Zxcvb]

6 minutes ago, TeamAMG69 said:

 

anyone has any contacts / friends / SE at AD (BMW, MB, AUDI) , really got emergency meeting to reduce their RRP & improve their specs on their B&B cars or PHEV / EV?

i keep seeing the above comments in many CAR CLUB Chat groups , but nobody can confirm it is true. 

 

 

After Chinese New Year, just fire all the SEs. Revamp websites to be like Tesla with online sales and FULL CASH option. 

[Ginyu]

2 hours ago, Voodooman said:

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/government-economy/more-tax-perks-down-the-road-to-promote-use-of-electric-cars-in-singapore

Happy to be proven wrong.

G is finally getting its act together and pushing for EV rollout and Tesla is disrupting the AD market.

Why Elon is leaving good money on the table?  He could have marked up 5-10k on distributor's margin and the sub 5s T3 will still kill all those premium conti wannabes. 

Imagine you are driving a $200k BMW 318 kanna jiak everyday by a $130k plasticky T3. Lol. Okok... Cannot compare like that.

does not matter if T3 is plasticky, what matters a more expensive  $200k car kana jiak by it liao🤣

Edited February 11, 2021 by Ginyu

[Volvobrick]

5 minutes ago, Zxcvb said:

After Chinese New Year, just fire all the SEs. Revamp websites to be like Tesla with online sales and FULL CASH option. 

No offense but with the proliferation of information and revirws on the net, car SE and house agents are really not value adding much. These jobs will be made redundant sooner or later.

 

[velocity-]

31 minutes ago, TeamAMG69 said:

 

anyone has any contacts / friends / SE at AD (BMW, MB, AUDI) , really got emergency meeting to reduce their RRP & improve their specs on their B&B cars or PHEV / EV?

i keep seeing the above comments in many CAR CLUB Chat groups , but nobody can confirm it is true. 

 

 

Can't confirm, but as a buyer I can tell you, what other EV is comparable to Tesla now? Kona 64kwh and Niro 64kwh was selling for 160-180k. PML cant give me an indicative price on the IX3, but it will be north of 250k. Mercedes EQC400 will definitely be above 300k, E tron right now is a joke. Range not as much as the tesla and there is a margin of 100k. Once the model Y launches, let's say its 20-30k more expensive than the model 3, it will immediately undercut the 3 german compact suv evs by at least 50-100k. 

There is the mg zs ev for 120k but are we really gonna compare that to a model y? There is also the renault zoe at 120k, and the cooper se at 160k and the Leaf at 130k. All these have smaller ranges, not as big as the model 3 SR+ for 160k. 

Not to mention, Tesla will have it's own supercharger network that is exclusive to Tesla cars. They also have a min fast charge speed of 150kw. All the other EVs have to rely on SP's 50 kw fast charger.  Also, Tesla is the only brand that doesn't require regular maintenance. In fact, they removed the annual maintenance that was required in the early days. Nowadays, it's a cabin filter change annually, brake pads and wipers as needed and a brake fluid flush on the 3rd year. Tires you check yourself. The rest of the EV's still have annual maintenance. Hyundai quoted me annual service of 200-300 (checks, fluids etc) for Kona LR. 

Maybe when more EVs come out, Tesla's competitiveness will drop. But for now, their user interface, maintenance free and autopilot and FSD are seriously ahead of the game. 

If we are going to compare to ICE cars, what will you compare the Model 3 to? I assume C180 and 318. These cars are definitely not as fast and cost more to run. So to those who have their charging sorted out, it's a no brainer. Unless you are after the badge. 

 

30 minutes ago, kwkwkw said:

Singapore's corporate income taxes are relatively low (up to 17%), while every dollar of OMV above $50k is taxed at 180% (ARF). I would think any additional work required to transfer profit from Tesla Singapore to Tesla Shanghai/HQ would be worth the reduced taxes of ~160%?

If Tesla is at all able to drop the OMV, I don't see why they shouldn't drop it now. If they did so, and if they wanted to maintain a specific profit margin, they could sell the car for a much lower price (by avoiding unnecessary ARF costs).

It seems to me that the 'selling the car at no margin' is at best a marketing gimmick, as Tesla is making their margin within the abnormally high OMV (around SGD25k more than an A4), while the AD structure does not allow for this, and ADs' only form of profit is from the 'mark up'.

Btw, wonder if anyone has done the math on total lifetime cost of Model 3 vs comparable ICE car when road tax costs (high road tax + $700/year flat component from 2023) and PARF (which is reduced by the $45k of VES/ early adopter incentives) have been taken into account? I hope that financially it is still competitive (disregarding opinions like Tesla has Autopilot, Mercs have better interior etc.)...

[In my previous post, I wrongly said that M3 OMV is USD58K, it should be USD44K.]

What you are forgetting is the EEAI Rebate. This is essentially a 45k discount on tax per car sold that becomes profit for their parent if it doesn't become profit for Tesla Singapore. If I were Tesla I would do the same. By having a 20k profit on the OMV, it goes directly to Giga Shanghai or the US parent. I'm sure they have some special tax arrangement with the Govts there and maybe even export benefits from China for exporting a made in china product. 

If they were to drop the car's omv to 40-50k, and sell it at 160k, people will count and say oh, Tesla Singapore makes a margin of 20-30k. Margin is something you pay instant depreciation for and do not get back. Try buying a new car from PML or Cycle and selling it immediately. The most you get back is the the OTR cost  while you paid OTR cost plus a good 50-60k margin. ARF, on the other hand, you get back half of it. So it is a win win for them, there is more dereg value for the customer at the end of the day (34k arf after rebate so 17k parf for the standard range plus) this way. If they were to declare omv as 40-50k, the parf could be as little as 2.5k -5k. Meanwhile, this 45k rebate in arf translates into pure profit for them since it comes from the increased OMV. This also allows them to have more profitability in their books for their shareholders.

If they drop the omv now, another thing to note is when the EEAI ends, the car instantly becomes more expensive on the road. By increasing the OMV now, when the EEAI ends, they can drop the omv and maintain the current selling price. Assuming COE stays at the 40-50k level.

 

One of my comparisons was running costs with 318i , C180. Yes the annual road tax is high, 3k range. But the performance is that of a 330i and C300. I am a high mileage user. about 25000km per year. I have had 530i, Volvo S90 T6 and other similar 2l contis with the 250-300hp range before. At best I can get 10l/100km. Average it was always 12-15 litres per 100km. That is around 6.5k in 98 fuel for me per year. Fuel discount taken into consideration.

With the Tesla, being pessimistic about the range, a 50kwh charge can get me 250km even though the rated range is 420km. 50kwh of electricity costs me 9 dollars. With the same 25000km travelled. I will only incur 900 dollars of electricity spent taking into account my home tariff now of 18 cents per kwh. 

This is before all servicing and maintenance. With ICE cars, you need a min 200 dollar oil change every 10-15k km. If done at the agent to preserve your warranty,that will be a lot more. So yes, overall I still save with a Tesla, even if the road tax is higher.

Edited February 11, 2021 by velocity-

[Melody288]

My apartment has this type 2 charger. Can let me know how many hours it takes to fully charge the model 3? And how much it costs per charge? (as my MA needs to bill the EV owners). TIA.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Melody288
Make it clearer

[Volvobrick]

24 minutes ago, velocity- said:

Can't confirm, but as a buyer I can tell you, what other EV is comparable to Tesla now? Kona 64kwh and Niro 64kwh was selling for 160-180k. PML cant give me an indicative price on the IX3, but it will be north of 250k. Mercedes EQC400 will definitely be above 300k, E tron right now is a joke. Range not as much as the tesla and there is a margin of 100k. Once the model Y launches, let's say its 20-30k more expensive than the model 3, it will immediately undercut the 3 german compact suv evs by at least 50-100k. 

There is the mg zs ev for 120k but are we really gonna compare that to a model y? There is also the renault zoe at 120k, and the cooper se at 160k and the Leaf at 130k. All these have smaller ranges, not as big as the model 3 SR+ for 160k. 

Not to mention, Tesla will have it's own supercharger network that is exclusive to Tesla cars. They also have a min fast charge speed of 150kw. All the other EVs have to rely on SP's 50 kw fast charger.  Also, Tesla is the only brand that doesn't require regular maintenance. In fact, they removed the annual maintenance that was required in the early days. Nowadays, it's a cabin filter change annually, brake pads and wipers as needed and a brake fluid flush on the 3rd year. Tires you check yourself. The rest of the EV's still have annual maintenance. Hyundai quoted me annual service of 200-300 (checks, fluids etc) for Kona LR. 

Maybe when more EVs come out, Tesla's competitiveness will drop. But for now, their user interface, maintenance free and autopilot and FSD are seriously ahead of the game. 

If we are going to compare to ICE cars, what will you compare the Model 3 to? I assume C180 and 318. These cars are definitely not as fast and cost more to run. So to those who have their charging sorted out, it's a no brainer. Unless you are after the badge. 

 

What you are forgetting is the EEAI Rebate. This is essentially a 45k discount on tax per car sold that becomes profit for their parent if it doesn't become profit for Tesla Singapore. If I were Tesla I would do the same. By having a 20k profit on the OMV, it goes directly to Giga Shanghai or the US parent. I'm sure they have some special tax arrangement with the Govts there and maybe even export benefits from China for exporting a made in china product. 

If they were to drop the car's omv to 40-50k, and sell it at 160k, people will count and say oh, Tesla Singapore makes a margin of 20-30k. Margin is something you pay instant depreciation for and do not get back. Try buying a new car from PML or Cycle and selling it immediately. The most you get back is the the OTR cost  while you paid OTR cost plus a good 50-60k margin. ARF, on the other hand, you get back half of it. So it is a win win for them, there is more dereg value for the customer at the end of the day (34k arf after rebate so 17k parf for the standard range plus) this way. If they were to declare omv as 40-50k, the parf could be as little as 2.5k -5k. Meanwhile, this 45k rebate in arf translates into pure profit for them since it comes from the increased OMV. This also allows them to have more profitability in their books for their shareholders.

If they drop the omv now, another thing to note is when the EEAI ends, the car instantly becomes more expensive on the road. By increasing the OMV now, when the EEAI ends, they can drop the omv and maintain the current selling price. Assuming COE stays at the 40-50k level.

 

One of my comparisons was running costs with 318i , C180. Yes the annual road tax is high, 3k range. But the performance is that of a 330i and C300. I am a high mileage user. about 25000km per year. I have had 530i, Volvo S90 T6 and other similar 2l contis with the 250-300hp range before. At best I can get 10l/100km. Average it was always 12-15 litres per 100km. That is around 6.5k in 98 fuel for me per year. Fuel discount taken into consideration.

With the Tesla, being pessimistic about the range, a 50kwh charge can get me 250km even though the rated range is 420km. 50kwh of electricity costs me 9 dollars. With the same 25000km travelled. I will only incur 900 dollars of electricity spent taking into account my home tariff now of 18 cents per kwh. 

This is before all servicing and maintenance. With ICE cars, you need a min 200 dollar oil change every 10-15k km. If done at the agent to preserve your warranty,that will be a lot more. So yes, overall I still save with a Tesla, even if the road tax is higher.

Well said - the other ADs are making ridiculous margins on the EVs (and other cars). Hope Tesla shake them up so we can buy cheaper Conti EVs with much nicer interior than Tesla! 

BTW the charging costs only for own charger in landed properties. Public chargers will cost 2 to 3 time more per kWH. 

[Dannnn]

2 hours ago, velocity- said:

Placed my deposit for a Model 3.
 

I have tested the performance at a PI and enjoyed the drive. For 160k OTR for the base and 200k OTR for the Performance, it's a no brainer compared to the 3 series and C class. I was about to get a G20 318 for 160k but lucky I did not. Not to mention, Tesla's financing partner is DBS which offers 1.68%. Can't wait to try it out. 

Bro, G20 318 at 160k is PML 1st hand? care to share more?

[velocity-]

37 minutes ago, Melody288 said:

My apartment has this type 2 charger. Can let me know how many hours it takes to fully charge the model 3? And how much it costs per charge? (as my MA needs to bill the EV owners). TIA.

Model 3 sr+ has an ac charging speed of 7.2kw. So a full 0-100% charge will take about 7.5 hours. Performance has a bigger batter but 11kw. 83ish actual kWh size. So about about 7.5 hours for a full charge. 

 

27 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Well said - the other ADs are making ridiculous margins on the EVs (and other cars). Hope Tesla shake them up so we can buy cheaper Conti EVs with much nicer interior than Tesla! 

BTW the charging costs only for own charger in landed properties. Public chargers will cost 2 to 3 time more per kWH. 

Yes that’s what we can all hope. That being said, everyone says the interior of the Tesla is plasticky and rubbish? Have you actually sat inside? I think the feel is not bad. Definitely feels more sturdy than the w205 c and on par with the g20. It may not be as fanciful inside but interior felt solid and no squeaks or rattles in my long test drive.

 

I don’t live in a landed but I have my own arrangement for charging at my parking lot. The power comes from my house so I pay my household tariff which is now 16.9 cents until the end of the this year

 

1 hour ago, kwkwkw said:

If I had to guess, I'd say that these rumours are based on people's optimism and hope that ADs will reduce prices (like how people were insistent that 'facts' proved that GME would rise even further even as it plummeted from its ATH...)

these aren’t rumours. Just look at the 3 big Germans, Lexus and all other competitors in the same segments. What other sedan or compact suv do they have at the Tesla price range, equal range if being ev, same amount of features and the autonomous capability as well as the lack of maintenance and the autonomy?

 

this is a big shake up to the car industry here and with mandatory ev adoption nearing in the foreseeable future, they have to change their game. Totally different from GME which was speculated and bought by people who know nothing about trading.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by velocity-

[Hons]

29 minutes ago, Melody288 said:

My apartment has this type 2 charger. Can let me know how many hours it takes to fully charge the model 3? And how much it costs per charge? (as my MA needs to bill the EV owners). TIA.

many other factors should be discussed, but for simplicity, if the EVSE is a 7.2kW unit and you charge for 6-7hrs, you will put around 40+kW into the battery, and that should give you about 250-300km. so every 300km, you charge for 1 time.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Hons

[Gz0707]

drove past Alexier building (next to CnC Kia) yesterday and saw a large banner which said "45k rebate or discount" in Hong Seh shop front.  I assume this is for Tesla ... sorry no details, just a glance whilst driving only ... 

[velocity-]

21 minutes ago, Dannnn said:

Bro, G20 318 at 160k is PML 1st hand? care to share more?

This was in Nov or dec, for Jan delivery. list price 180+-190k. They could give 30k overtrade or something. Then coe went up and VES surcharge of 10k now. So now the list is 205 or so, but I think max discount of 20k. So you can't really get it anymore.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Gz0707 said:

drove past Alexier building (next to CnC Kia) yesterday and saw a large banner which said "45k rebate or discount" in Hong Seh shop front.  I assume this is for Tesla ... sorry no details, just a glance whilst driving only ... 

Yup, they are probably trying to clear their existing stock of Teslas. They were selling Model 3 Performance at 350k and Standard range at 240k. Essentially, the officially imported teslas are the latest 2021 facelift and are 80k cheaper for the sr+ and a whopping 150k cheaper for the performance. 

[andersseanx]

hoping my new place have electric charge installed then can order

[andersseanx]

1 hour ago, velocity- said:

This was in Nov or dec, for Jan delivery. list price 180+-190k. They could give 30k overtrade or something. Then coe went up and VES surcharge of 10k now. So now the list is 205 or so, but I think max discount of 20k. So you can't really get it anymore.

 

 

Yup, they are probably trying to clear their existing stock of Teslas. They were selling Model 3 Performance at 350k and Standard range at 240k. Essentially, the officially imported teslas are the latest 2021 facelift and are 80k cheaper for the sr+ and a whopping 150k cheaper for the performance. 

they are a joke shop.

[RogerNg_185295]

1 hour ago, Gz0707 said:

drove past Alexier building (next to CnC Kia) yesterday and saw a large banner which said "45k rebate or discount" in Hong Seh shop front.  I assume this is for Tesla ... sorry no details, just a glance whilst driving only ... 

Wait for discounted price.  Those who bought earlier really lose a lot of 💰 

[kelaihoyin]

2 hours ago, Volvobrick said:

No offense but with the proliferation of information and revirws on the net, car SE and house agents are really not value adding much. These jobs will be made redundant sooner or later.

 

haha not stereotyping but most of the time it seems like I'm selling the car rather than them selling it to me🤣

[Lethalstrike]

1 hour ago, velocity- said:

This was in Nov or dec, for Jan delivery. list price 180+-190k. They could give 30k overtrade or something. Then coe went up and VES surcharge of 10k now. So now the list is 205 or so, but I think max discount of 20k. So you can't really get it anymore.

 

 

Yup, they are probably trying to clear their existing stock of Teslas. They were selling Model 3 Performance at 350k and Standard range at 240k. Essentially, the officially imported teslas are the latest 2021 facelift and are 80k cheaper for the sr+ and a whopping 150k cheaper for the performance. 

No sympathy if they are stuck with stocks to clear. It would be stupid of them to keep a large inventory of ready stock for such a niche car here at that level of price bracket. 

But yes, Hong Seh is officially Hong Kan liao 😂 

[Hmanxx]

The FSD  cost after applying ARF is expensive.

Tesla should study singapore taxation structure better. If this is purely software update. Allow the software upgrade be done post sales as if post sales installing a GPS navigation system and since Tesla car does OTA (over the air software update), it is possible. 

 

For Tesla, they only make the FSD $11.5k ,ARF value is tax, well pass the saving to user.

 

I like the performance sku and also like the FSD but the$27k extra on FSD is making me to hesitate.

If you are doing the aggressive driving, FSD is not applicable.

Don't know after the FSD interest will be wearing off fast or not. FSD driving will be very useful for long haul driving. 

 

For a performance EV , can't use the break even mileage to justify or for people willing to fork out that amount to purchase such car, they are appreciating the technology behind..

 

In the past, I did not care on fuel price when I was driving the affordable WRX STI. I was more keen on its performance than FC.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Hmanxx

[Justbear]

Which PI so good to let you test? Can PM me?