How relevant is EV for Singapore in 2020?

[601F]

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Toyota-s-game-changing-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut

Solid state batteries coming in a few years' time, 500km per charge and 10min charging time

[inlinesix]

3 hours ago, Yewheng said:

Yup, 200.. By 2040 need at least 500k charging lots. Can it be done? The cost involved to maintain the 500k charging lots too. Currently we just park at parking lot, relatively maintenance free, aka park and go. In 2040 to maintain 500k charging lot in whole of Singapore? The cost involved? That is beside the need to purchase the charging equipment to put on that lot. What about the lifespan of the charging equipment? The cable, like as we know even USB cable have a set number of plug and unplug. After that set number, the cable will start to degrade and will not charge hp properly. 

Take this for example, really respect these people behind the scene doing all the preparation work and discussing what are the things that needed and or going to happen even before the vaccine was ready to be vaccinated. So all these problems I pointed out, its a early head start for people to start planning all these EV problems, including whether is it feasible to install at least 500k charging lots, the maintenance of at least 500k lots, the lifespan of the charging equipment and etc. 

I don't know, but for large numbers, I feel it would be more cost effective to have like what we currently have now. Petrol stations spread out at whole of Singapore. So it is a lot more cost effective. Like say future charging will be go to say petrol station (maybe rename as electric charging station) to charge car up to full. So the maintenance, replace equipment wise would be then a lot easier to manage, plus if one electric charging station shut down for maintenance, there are still a lot more charging station in whole of Singapore. So in order to achieve that, the charging time need to reduce to 10 minutes or less to full. So hopefully we will be able to see that by year 2040. If not the whole EV thing will be in a mass, people are very frustrated with long charging time, no charging lots in many carpark due to all taken up, charging equipment faulty, expensive parking due to park car overnight to charge and etc. 

 

Why do we need 500k charger?  It does not make commercial sense at all.

Once charging station hit 150kwh or 300kwh charging speed, it will be relatively fast charging from 0% to 80%.

Hydrogen FCEV

Read this: https://energypost.eu/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-competitive-hydrogen-fuel-cell-expert/

I found it accidentally.

Let's look at Toyota Mirai.  It builds on TNGA-L platform that includes Lexus LC & LS.

This is almost 5m car.  Within this 5m chassis, it has 3 hydrogen tank.

In addition, there is a 1kwh ni-cd battery + motor in the rear.  So the boot is as big as VW golf.

For 2nd Gen Mirai, its range has improved over 1st gen because of the bigger hydrogen tank.

So, there is NO improvement in term of efficiency.

Based on photo of the interior, rear seat likely to fit only 2 adults.

In real-world, is it a practical car?  No.  Mind you, I drive a 2 dr hatch.

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, 601F said:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Toyota-s-game-changing-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut

Solid state batteries coming in a few years' time, 500km per charge and 10min charging time

That's what Toyota has been working on for some times.

Solid-state Lithium battery.

[Yewheng]

7 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Why do we need 500k charger?  It does not make commercial sense at all.

Once charging station hit 150kwh or 300kwh charging speed, it will be relatively fast charging from 0% to 80%.

Hydrogen FCEV

Read this: https://energypost.eu/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-competitive-hydrogen-fuel-cell-expert/

I found it accidentally.

Let's look at Toyota Mirai.  It builds on TNGA-L platform that includes Lexus LC & LS.

This is almost 5m car.  Within this 5m chassis, it has 3 hydrogen tank.

In addition, there is a 1kwh ni-cd battery + motor in the rear.  So the boot is as big as VW golf.

For 2nd Gen Mirai, its range has improved over 1st gen because of the bigger hydrogen tank.

So, there is NO improvement in term of efficiency.

Based on photo of the interior, rear seat likely to fit only 2 adults.

In real-world, is it a practical car?  No.  Mind you, I drive a 2 dr hatch.

You think people will waste time wait for say 1hr and afert finish charging go shift car out of charging lot?

20 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Currently, there is 200 SP Power charging point in Singapore.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/sp-group-grows-electric-vehicle-charging-points-200-islandwide-including-cbds-first-fast

How many hydrogen refuelling station?  Can anyone use FCEV in Singapore now?

You should consider EV seriously.  For Ioniq, it cost $13.2 (SP Power 50kw DC Charger) for a full charge.  With range of 200km, there is around 6.6 cents/km

 

[inlinesix]

1 minute ago, Yewheng said:

You think people will waste time wait for say 1hr and afert finish charging go shift car out of charging lot?

If that's the rationale, good luck lo.

 

[Yewheng]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

If that's the rationale, good luck lo.

 

Government also need to consider, Later people work until very tired reach home want to charge car as car battery low, but then all the charging lots are occupied. The driver will need to wait for people to charge finish and then shift car to the one with no charging lot. Then it would be very frustrating, imagine it happened island wide, jia lat man. Imagine do it say every 1 week or so. Then there are  those staying in semi-d and terrace house. So these household need to ownself pay money to install charging point? Plus some of these household have 2 or 3 cars. Usually these cars parked just outside their house. Like that how? 

[Yewheng]

 

 

There goes more headache on different car manufacturers to want to use their own charging network. The above screenshot comment is so spot on. So imagine say we are ongoing installing the charging lot, then there is a new revision of charging cable or another car manufacturer come into play and use their own type of plug. Then need to spend money to remodify existing one that had already installed. If there are 30k of them, need to remodify all 30k one by one?

[V_Veil365]

this fact "In conclusion, Singapore's infra is still far from being EV friendly." is very sad 😩

[Voodooman]

16 hours ago, Yewheng said:

Yup, 200.. By 2040 need at least 500k charging lots. Can it be done? The cost involved to maintain the 500k charging lots too. Currently we just park at parking lot, relatively maintenance free, aka park and go. In 2040 to maintain 500k charging lot in whole of Singapore? The cost involved? That is beside the need to purchase the charging equipment to put on that lot. What about the lifespan of the charging equipment? The cable, like as we know even USB cable have a set number of plug and unplug. After that set number, the cable will start to degrade and will not charge hp properly. 

 

Take this for example, really respect these people behind the scene doing all the preparation work and discussing what are the things that needed and or going to happen even before the vaccine was ready to be vaccinated. So all these problems I pointed out, its a early head start for people to start planning all these EV problems, including whether is it feasible to install at least 500k charging lots, the maintenance of at least 500k lots, the lifespan of the charging equipment and etc. 

I don't know, but for large numbers, I feel it would be more cost effective to have like what we currently have now. Petrol stations spread out at whole of Singapore. So it is a lot more cost effective. Like say future charging will be go to say petrol station (maybe rename as electric charging station) to charge car up to full. So the maintenance, replace equipment wise would be then a lot easier to manage, plus if one electric charging station shut down for maintenance, there are still a lot more charging station in whole of Singapore. So in order to achieve that, the charging time need to reduce to 10 minutes or less to full. So hopefully we will be able to see that by year 2040. If not the whole EV thing will be in a mass, people are very frustrated with long charging time, no charging lots in many carpark due to all taken up, charging equipment faulty, expensive parking due to park car overnight to charge and etc. 

 

If you can power and light up a MSCP, what is so difficult to install charging points?  It is just a matter of returns on investment. From an earlier article I read, each charging points cost just a few thousands dollars.  If the demand is there, very easy to recoup the money.  

Hydrogen fuel cells on the other hand is space age technology and way more expensive. Storage cost and the extreme high pressure required, transportation is difficult, etc. If not, it will be more environmentally friendly than EV. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Voodooman

[ElectricYouth]

26 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

There goes more headache on different car manufacturers to want to use their own charging network. The above screenshot comment is so spot on. So imagine say we are ongoing installing the charging lot, then there is a new revision of charging cable or another car manufacturer come into play and use their own type of plug. Then need to spend money to remodify existing one that had already installed. If there are 30k of them, need to remodify all 30k one by one?

https://www.ema.gov.sg/Electric_Vehicle_Charging_Systems.aspx

EMA establishes the standards for ev charging in Singapore. Don’t think they will change frequently. 

[Yewheng]

5 hours ago, ElectricYouth said:

https://www.ema.gov.sg/Electric_Vehicle_Charging_Systems.aspx

EMA establishes the standards for ev charging in Singapore. Don’t think they will change frequently. 

It also depends on car manufacturers right? Plus remember we have USB type A, USB type C, micro USB, mini USB... all these are evolving right? If car manufacturers want to use their own plug or later along the way found out that this type of plug is not able to take new charging standard and need to update to new plug then able to take higher charging standard? Like that means we can't buy that car unless government need to go modify existing charging lot to add one more addition or users need to seperately buy adapter? Maybe seperately buy adapter is a more feasible option. Then maybe we will be stuck with slower charging standard as compared to newer plug which is able to take higher volt input or sort of. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Yewheng

[Beanoyip]

Every lot needs the charging pad! Wireless charging the way to go! 

Anyway i heard the new BTOs coming next year has EV charging stations in MSCP...

[Beanoyip]

Not sure if you all seen this, in Oslo, there's an ONLY EV carpark.

 

 

[Yewheng]

https://trib.al/5AJ4iTC

 

Now even apple also want to go into electric car. Maybe apple will want to have their own charging proprietary. Let's wait and see. 

 

 

[Yewheng]

1 hour ago, Beanoyip said:

Every lot needs the charging pad! Wireless charging the way to go! 

Anyway i heard the new BTOs coming next year has EV charging stations in MSCP...

Think new bto multi story carpark need to have say 1/2 of the carpark with charging lot. So let's say this new bto multi story carpark has 6 stories, then 3 stories need to have charging lot. This is to prepare for the future. Coz government want to go full electric by 2040 right? So it's time to start now. 

 

Next is those truck, trailers. Those truck, trailers and etc all park at their own designated parking right? These also need to upgrade already. 

[Beanoyip]

9 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Think new bto multi story carpark need to have say 1/2 of the carpark with charging lot. So let's say this new bto multi story carpark has 6 stories, then 3 stories need to have charging lot. This is to prepare for the future. Coz government want to go full electric by 2040 right? So it's time to start now. 

 

Next is those truck, trailers. Those truck, trailers and etc all park at their own designated parking right? These also need to upgrade already. 

TBH, 2040 seems far fetch to convert to full EV..

Even the UK only commit to stop selling ICE after 2030.

Even their EV infrastructure is quite extensive, but users still face quite a lot of issues especially if you're not driving Tesla..

[Yewheng]

 

Saw on Facebook comment. Quite interesting. The power draw, imagine say in future like maybe there is technology breakthrough and can get full charge in 30 minutes. The next question is can our power grid support say 500 cars or even 1k cars charging at rapid charge at the same time at around the same location? What if it overload the power grid how? Then it will be like the mrt keep have breakdown or sort of trend? 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Yewheng

[Beanoyip]

4 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

 

 

Saw on Facebook comment. Quite interesting. The power draw, imagine say in future like maybe there is technology breakthrough and can get full charge in 30 minutes. The next question is can our power grid support say 500 cars or even 1k cars charging at rapid charge at the same time at around the same location? What if it overload the power grid how? Then it will be like the mrt keep have breakdown or sort of trend? 

They have to consider power usage on the power grid as well when installing all these high W chargers..