'End of Singapore' for expats

[macrosszero]

On 9/7/2020 at 11:15 AM, Mockngbrd said:

“Since July the mood has dramatically shifted against foreign workers,” said another British woman who did not wish to be named. “My advice to anyone considering moving to Singapore on assignment would be – don’t do it, you have no rights here, they don’t want you.”

 

Boohoo.

So sad.

Don't let the door hit your butt on your way out, ok?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Macrosszero

[Wind30]

4 hours ago, Macrosszero said:

Many of the expats living here don't really live here, they live in a bubble. The foreign workers also live in their own bubble but that is another story. In any case, their lives are disparate from regular Singaporeans and invariably mid-upper class, as someone points out, lives in central districts, with posh cars and kids going to international schools, that sort of thing.

Their behaviour along Singapore River during circuit breaker is but one in a line of deeds that show that they don't respect Singapore's culture and don't even try to assimilate, but generally feel that the country should bend to their customs and habits. Same goes for behaviour on the road (as cyclists or as pedestrians). 

Considering the amount of foreign talent that is here, its quite a pity that I know only a handful. And those are the exception because they broke out of their expat bubble - one is a Kiwi that took up permanent residency here, started a business and lives in a HDB flat. The other hails from PRC but was brought up here from secondary school and is about as Singaporean as you and be, bar the perfect Mandarin and PRC-sounding name. 

Outside of work, how many expats or FT do you know personally, that you would call as friends? I suspect my experience isn't unique, unless you happen to be an SPG. 

... err... I don't really know many people outside of work.

I call some of the FT from my first job (from china) very good friends. We keep in touch even after we all left that first company. 

[Windwaver]

4 hours ago, inlinesix said:

You are deem NOT to be a team player, if that's the case.

It has nothing to do with whether you are genuine or not.

I am actually best in platoon leh , was given a free day off to see girlfriend.

However, I get your point (you're not wrong).

That's why I say people like to 'befriend' each other but stab behind their backs and these are considered team players; that's reality.

Nevertheless, I deliver my job all the time just that I don't like to engage in the stabbing game.

 

[Meanmachine]

We still need those top scale expats, less those ordinary and incompetent one, our local PMETs should be abled to fill-up the gap, i mean most of them are Grads holder and thy are capable of producing better result than expats

[Yewheng]

On 9/8/2020 at 10:09 AM, Macrosszero said:

Many of the expats living here don't really live here, they live in a bubble. The foreign workers also live in their own bubble but that is another story. In any case, their lives are disparate from regular Singaporeans and invariably mid-upper class, as someone points out, lives in central districts, with posh cars and kids going to international schools, that sort of thing.

Their behaviour along Singapore River during circuit breaker is but one in a line of deeds that show that they don't respect Singapore's culture and don't even try to assimilate, but generally feel that the country should bend to their customs and habits. Same goes for behaviour on the road (as cyclists or as pedestrians). 

Considering the amount of foreign talent that is here, its quite a pity that I know only a handful. And those are the exception because they broke out of their expat bubble - one is a Kiwi that took up permanent residency here, started a business and lives in a HDB flat. The other hails from PRC but was brought up here from secondary school and is about as Singaporean as you and be, bar the perfect Mandarin and PRC-sounding name. 

Outside of work, how many expats or FT do you know personally, that you would call as friends? I suspect my experience isn't unique, unless you happen to be an SPG. 

No la. You cannot generalise people like that.. There are also many good FT out there. In fact I fetched countless of FT, they all seem to be very nice people. Talk on phone very friendly, their child also seems very sweet and nice and etc. So there are always a 2 side of the coin. Think it is because of what we see as bad, we keep remember it, but when it is good, we tend to take it for granted and less likely to remember. 

[boonhat_91]

3 hours ago, Yewheng said:

No la. You cannot generalise people like that.. There are also many good FT out there. In fact I fetched countless of FT, they all seem to be very nice people. Talk on phone very friendly, their child also seems very sweet and nice and etc. So there are always a 2 side of the coin. Think it is because of what we see as bad, we keep remember it, but when it is good, we tend to take it for granted and less likely to remember. 

That is the bubble right there. That your "countless" interactions with them are only from fetching them.

[13177]

3 hours ago, Yewheng said:

No la. You cannot generalise people like that.. There are also many good FT out there. In fact I fetched countless of FT, they all seem to be very nice people. Talk on phone very friendly, their child also seems very sweet and nice and etc. So there are always a 2 side of the coin. Think it is because of what we see as bad, we keep remember it, but when it is good, we tend to take it for granted and less likely to remember. 

Even though they are nice and good FT doesnt mean they are not here to take away your job? Or bring their whole village here? 

[Volvobrick]

2 minutes ago, 13177 said:

Even though they are nice and good FT doesnt mean they are not here to take away your job? Or bring their whole village here? 

Yewheng might think otherwise if foreigners are allowed to drive PHV/taxi. And nice polite foreigners.

Why ministars always say must have FT? Becos FTs not allowed to compete for ministars' job. Give me Jacinda from NZ anytime! Better, cheaper. 

[mersaylee]

4 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Yewheng might think otherwise if foreigners are allowed to drive PHV/taxi. And nice polite foreigners.

Why ministars always say must have FT? Becos FTs not allowed to compete for ministars' job. Give me Jacinda from NZ anytime! Better, cheaper. 

Betterer, cheaperer and fasterer to contain any issue...but to run my country? No thanks and no way... My father and forefathers fought so hard to get rid of foreign rule... MLMLWML😁 I'd kena hantum if I meet them in nether world. Late ah gong gave my father a chance but won't gib me chance one😅

[Victor68]

Way back during before independent we already got expats. Holland area is one classic example but mainly ang moh lah. When we go industrialize, HK, Taiwanese and Japanese are very common because they set up factories or rent JTC. They in fact have their own various clubs here. Why now we are complaining so much? The influx today is totally out of proportion and they are here to take away valuable jobs we need. Unlike previously, they create jobs for locals. The biggest culprit today is CECA but government keeps defending it although they are like trying to mitigate. Real fast action is required as we see more retrenchments or rather redundancy coming soon. Data like found new jobs are not good.  these 'new jobs' are mostly temporary Distancing Officer, Grab drivers, General workers, etc that are not what those displaced need. 

[Yewheng]

21 minutes ago, 13177 said:

Even though they are nice and good FT doesnt mean they are not here to take away your job? Or bring their whole village here? 

I am referring to @macrossszero post.. For this FT take away our job. Actually if LHL already explained it during the long speech in the 1st parliament session and also talk about the free rider. So the answer is yes and no. Yes, they could take away our job due to employers can hire them at cheaper & faster (if that's what you all want to call it). No, it could end up bring in more jobs to locals and more.. Think you guys need to go rewatch the Lhl speech.. He really did explained it all.. 

[Yewheng]

29 minutes ago, 13177 said:

Even though they are nice and good FT doesnt mean they are not here to take away your job? Or bring their whole village here? 

I am referring to @macrossszero post.. For this FT take away our job. Actually if LHL already explained it during the long speech in the 1st parliament session and also talk about the free rider. So the answer is yes and no. Yes, they could take away our job due to employers can hire them at cheaper & faster (if that's what you all want to call it). No, it could end up bring in more jobs to locals and more.. Think you guys need to go rewatch the Lhl speech.. He really did explained it all.. 

 

There need to have a balance approach.. If not later no foreign companies want to set up in Singapore.. Then we gg.. 

[13177]

5 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

I am referring to @macrossszero post.. For this FT take away our job. Actually if LHL already explained it during the long speech in the 1st parliament session and also talk about the free rider. So the answer is yes and no. Yes, they could take away our job due to employers can hire them at cheaper & faster (if that's what you all want to call it). No, it could end up bring in more jobs to locals and more.. Think you guys need to go rewatch the Lhl speech.. He really did explained it all.. 

True la, FT issue never ending de and there is also no right or wrong, depend how you see it. Lol.

[Mockngbrd]

Amdl still not enough. Salary still too high. 

[Lala81]

On 9/8/2020 at 10:09 AM, Macrosszero said:

Outside of work, how many expats or FT do you know personally, that you would call as friends? I suspect my experience isn't unique, unless you happen to be an SPG. 

I don't. But then generally speaking I don't even have time to have more than a few close friends. Which i suspect many busy Singaporeans are also the same. 

[Wt_know]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:44 PM, Lala81 said:

I find it a bit exaggerated.

Are we disrespecting of these fairly high SES expats? Are they treated worse than the Bangladeshi workers? Are they shown less respect than the coffeeshop cleaner or toilet cleaner here in SG?
JSS is from the govt coffers that is based on the toil of 2-3 generations of Singaporean workers. Obviously the incentive should be to protect Singaporean jobs.

to be honsest ... “expats” are treated as fair as citizen here,  if not even at higher status as many SC dont even dare to speak louder to expats

there is no other country in the world ... seriously ... none ... not even amdk land that everyday shout freedom of speech and democratic that treat expats as “fair” as their citizen

in amdk usa ... they are called ALIEN ... lol

Edited September 18, 2020 by Wt_know

[t0y0ta]

55 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

I am referring to @macrossszero post.. For this FT take away our job. Actually if LHL already explained it during the long speech in the 1st parliament session and also talk about the free rider. So the answer is yes and no. Yes, they could take away our job due to employers can hire them at cheaper & faster (if that's what you all want to call it). No, it could end up bring in more jobs to locals and more.. Think you guys need to go rewatch the Lhl speech.. He really did explained it all.. 

 

There need to have a balance approach.. If not later no foreign companies want to set up in Singapore.. Then we gg.. 

Yes it is a balance, we cannot throw out 4 million Indian FTs in 1 stroke like Kuwait and close shop for international business.

BUT the balancing act is no longer balanced for the last 2 decades. CECA is just the last straw that breaks the camel back.

The real impact is long term. Local long-term SGians may lose the skills/exposure/opportunities for mid/high end PMET jobs, overall $$ accumulation and wealth falls among the locals and eventually Singapore will also lose its attractiveness.

I am very worried that the current ruling party only looks at the short term (boost GDP to meet their easy KPI) and anyway, they will be out in a few terms, to retire on their high pay.

[Sdf4786k]

19 minutes ago, t0y0ta said:

Yes it is a balance, we cannot throw out 4 million Indian FTs in 1 stroke like Kuwait and close shop for international business.

BUT the balancing act is no longer balanced for the last 2 decades. CECA is just the last straw that breaks the camel back.

The real impact is long term. Local long-term SGians may lose the skills/exposure/opportunities for mid/high end PMET jobs, overall $$ accumulation and wealth falls among the locals and eventually Singapore will also lose its attractiveness.

I am very worried that the current ruling party only looks at the short term (boost GDP to meet their easy KPI) and anyway, they will be out in a few terms, to retire on their high pay.

Which begs the original question. Is there or is there no discrimation that happen for thev47+240 company that was red flag.

My limited understanding is yes. 

So the next question should be, can we afford to throw away our way of life on meritrocacy, and regardless of race, language or religion?. Or should we accept tgat a paradim shift has occured and we need to moderate our way of life in order to survive.

Doing a zero sum game on right or wrong will not help singapore. Having a singapore conversation while tough should gives us a expectation of the future direction and will we be inclusive in this changing landscape.

And then share on tbe game plan on how collectively we can grow as a nation. 

In previous episode, we kept on raising alarm bells but was deem xenophobic and even have rules of engagement yo avoid harming the social fabric. It all well and good. But where is the avenue for those keen eye observer to ask questions that raise it at a larger conversation.

If we take the toyota way of production, should there be a way to have that same conversation and ask the difficult question without intemidation nor the retrorhocal.. whats the point of the question.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Sdf4786k