MOM takes action against 47 firms & investigating 240 others for possibly favouring foreign job applicants over S'poreans

[13177]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:31 AM, Fcw75 said:

The HR manager should never be a foreigner. 

It's like asking someone to be the gatekeeper but that someone is from the same village that he is suppose to prevent from coming in. 

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It is common to find HR manager or HR staff to be a foreigner nowadays.

[ToyotaShuttle]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:55 AM, Wind30 said:

... I know for FIRST HAND that the government has encouraged local hiring (not just recently but for a number of years) as I work in an MNC and I am involved in hiring. That is exactly what I meant by some of the public does not have the full picture. 

sigh... you did not even read what I write. Why do people keep thinking that the government has done nothing to encourage local hiring, or try to better the lives of locals? To me it is just plain illogical... with reasons stated earlier and I am too tired of repeating over and over again. 

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Who said they are doing nothing? People are saying that whatever they are doing isn't enough.

You think it is enough but keep your mind opened to the opinions of those whose jobs are affected.

Same to those that say they don't mind FW but die die cannot have any PMETs competing with them for their rice bowl. This kind of mindset ignores the Singaporeans competing with those FW.

[Leo72]

  On 8/6/2020 at 6:41 AM, 13177 said:

It is common to find HR manager or HR staff to be a foreigner nowadays.

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The problem is not whether the HE manager is local or foreigner but the top management of the companies. Even local companies like Foreigners  as they command lower pay than local. You can take a look on the  job market and you'll be shock to find advertisements with salary of SGD3000 for engineers with 2 to 5 years relevant working experience, 

[Wind30]

  On 8/6/2020 at 6:45 AM, ToyotaShuttle said:

Who said they are doing nothing? People are saying that whatever they are doing isn't enough.

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sigh.... just read the posts below.... 

I ask you what is enough?? Nothing is ever enough. People want great jobs for all the locals and everyone will get good pay, prefably with less FT so we don't have to share MRT with them. How are you going to generate the jobs? if not attracting MNCs? What people should be asking is what are the alternatives? Is the other path really better?

-------------------------------------------

"This problem has been there for years, MOM has been keeping companies in watch list but does nothing about it except continue watching. Every year they report thousands of companies are added into  their watch list, but what have they done about it other then watching? If they are serious about it, we wouldn't have been in the situation today  , including the GE results.  

https://mothership.sg/2020/08/mom-investigate-employers-pre-selecting-foreigners/"

 

"Don't forget that a WIN for Singapore is not just about being economically relevant globally, but it must also be a societal WIN for Singapore. At what cost is that to your society here in Singapore? Is that even healthy and sustainable, to a prosperous Singapore in the long run?

In your own words, you thought the govt will have *thought of ways to encourage to local hiring. They didn't, thus the damage control we are seeing these few days after GE. You  have the sense to observe the furore from some of the general public over this, and this is already the tip of the iceberg in terms of unhappiness within the society. This is the society cost which you didn't even consider in your arguments. 

Asking the people to be objective when the govt's objective isn't on helping it's own is a big oxymoron. "

 

  

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Wind30

[Throttle2]

I think PAP should come MCF to do recruitment......

👍

 The Style, the perspective, the language, the look, confirm all pass with flying colors.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Throttle2

[Voodooman]

  On 8/6/2020 at 6:31 AM, Wind30 said:

People don't like to discuss company related stuff on a public forum.

Lets just put it this way, every EDB grant to the MNCs that I have visibility to, comes with clauses to hire a minimum number of locals (Citizen+PRs). The funding for locals is also very different. 

You can argue whether it is effective or not but you cannot say the government is not doing anything or not trying. That is the main issue with your post initially. 

Honestly, I feel there are a LOT of FT in CBP. I am not privy to why there is so many FTs... so I don't think I can judge on the right balance of FT. Aiya, in the end, there is no point discussing this because there is just not enough information to make the call on how many FT is needed.

I know my workplace needs their FT... if we don't have them, it does not work. Do we need everyone of them? obviously not...  which ones do we don't need? it hard to answer...

 

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10-12 years ago, I was really annoyed with PAP's open leg policy.  They have however tried very hard to manage the FT issue after GE2011.  I agree with you we need some FT to grow the pie.  

The FT are however here to supplement us and perhaps push us to move up the value chains, not to replace us.  We need good jobs (not Grab drivers and property agents please), not more handouts. 

I think they should tear up CECA coz the maths just can't work for us (1% of 1.4b people is 14m, lots more can qualify for EP). 

G needs to fix the middle age job crisis issue, otherwise the FT issue is going to continue to haunt them.  As you can see, many PMET in their 40s and 50s here are vehemently against FT, the pain and fear are real. 

Have we achieve a balance? 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Voodooman

[Sturtles]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:17 AM, Wind30 said:

That is the main problem, Balance. I thought the government has balance but the some of the public have zero balance...

It is COMMON sense. Are we a democracy? Do you believe we are a democracy? Why would a democratically elected government favor FT??? it just does not make sense...

The government will have thought of ways to encourage local hiring without killing the economy. Some of the public, on the other hand, don't see the broader economy. They don't have accurate information. They aren't objective. 

People have to start thinking about the paths open to Singapore, and which ones they want to take.

Will making it harder for MNCs to hire FT help giving more jobs to locals? You have to think about that SERIOUSLY. Let me put some numbers out. What is the right balance for you?

Lets say there are 5 MNCs with 80% FT/20% Locals hiring.  you want them to double their local hiring to 60% FT/ 40% locals... 3 of them managed to do what is required after much pain while 2 of them decide to pack up and go. 

Is that a win for Singapore??? Think about it... 

 

 

 

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The colonial western MNCs employment their fellows to be in the TOP management position while letting junior white collars be singaporeans because we are cheaper

These days, the 3rd world country high flyers have replaced that position, but due to the natural village mentality, ( it takes a village to raise a child) its time to repay the kindness and help.

It is only natural they will hire cheaper folks from their home country due to the natural advantages

1. Cheaper labour source- Saves money for the bottom line

2. Cultural familiarity and trust-improved work synergy hence higher efficiency

3. Similar qualifications or higher compared to locals- who is there to confirm

4. Hungrier staff, as they are deemed to have made it and are also determined to carve out a niche from their more backward village.

Any free market believer and practitioner will take these valid points anytime of the day

However, the catch being the only infested country is not Antarctica, but a nation with its own background, history and opportunities being deprived.

[Kopites]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:17 AM, Wind30 said:

That is the main problem, Balance. I thought the government has balance but the some of the public have zero balance...

It is COMMON sense. Are we a democracy? Do you believe we are a democracy? Why would a democratically elected government favor FT??? it just does not make sense...

The government will have thought of ways to encourage local hiring without killing the economy. Some of the public, on the other hand, don't see the broader economy. They don't have accurate information. They aren't objective. 

People have to start thinking about the paths open to Singapore, and which ones they want to take.

Will making it harder for MNCs to hire FT help giving more jobs to locals? You have to think about that SERIOUSLY. Let me put some numbers out. What is the right balance for you?

Lets say there are 5 MNCs with 80% FT/20% Locals hiring.  you want them to double their local hiring to 60% FT/ 40% locals... 3 of them managed to do what is required after much pain while 2 of them decide to pack up and go. 

Is that a win for Singapore??? Think about it... 

 

 

 

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"Why would a democratically elected government favor FT??? it just does not make sense..." Your above post.

My view. It make sense.  Totally make sense....!😆

FT provide a quick fix solution while education take 15 to 20 years inorder they can contribute into it economics. Which in term boost GDP...which in term give them reason to increase their pay scale. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Kopites

[Kopites]

  On 8/6/2020 at 6:45 AM, ToyotaShuttle said:

Who said they are doing nothing? People are saying that whatever they are doing isn't enough.

 

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A tiny bit aday. 

[Weez911]

  On 8/6/2020 at 8:58 AM, Kopites said:

"Why would a democratically elected government favor FT??? it just does not make sense..." Your above post.

My view. It make sense.  Totally make sense....!😆

FT provide a quick fix solution while education take 15 to 20 years inorder they can contribute into it economics. Which in term boost GDP...which in term give them reason to increase their pay scale. 

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Hahaha democracy. Fk me.

[Angcheek]

  On 8/6/2020 at 7:53 AM, Voodooman said:

10-12 years ago, I was really annoyed with PAP's open leg policy.  They have however tried very hard to manage the FT issue after GE2011.  I agree with you we need some FT to grow the pie.  

The FT are however here to supplement us and perhaps push us to move up the value chains, not to replace us.  We need good jobs (not Grab drivers and property agents please), not more handouts. 

I think they should tear up CECA coz the maths just can't work for us (1% of 1.4b people is 14m, lots more can qualify for EP). 

G needs to fix the middle age job crisis issue, otherwise the FT issue is going to continue to haunt them.  As you can see, many PMET in their 40s and 50s here are vehemently against FT, the pain and fear are real. 

Have we achieve a balance? 

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Our PMET all upgraded and become self bosses. 

 

All driving taxi 😆🍻

[Angcheek]

  On 8/6/2020 at 9:18 AM, Weez911 said:

Hahaha democracy. Fk me.

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[Wind30]

  On 8/6/2020 at 7:53 AM, Voodooman said:

10-12 years ago, I was really annoyed with PAP's open leg policy.  They have however tried very hard to manage the FT issue after GE2011.  I agree with you we need some FT to grow the pie.  

The FT are however here to supplement us and perhaps push us to move up the value chains, not to replace us.  We need good jobs (not Grab drivers and property agents please), not more handouts. 

I think they should tear up CECA coz the maths just can't work for us (1% of 1.4b people is 14m, lots more can qualify for EP). 

G needs to fix the middle age job crisis issue, otherwise the FT issue is going to continue to haunt them.  As you can see, many PMET in their 40s and 50s here are vehemently against FT, the pain and fear are real. 

Have we achieve a balance? 

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So how do u fix the middle age job crisis issue?? Cutting back on ft?

i have some ideas what we should do but I am wondering what do u think we should do?

tear up the CECA? I already said many times, tearing up the ceca has implications on all the other agreements we have done with other countries. To tired to explain again.

[Victor68]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:55 AM, Wind30 said:

... I know for FIRST HAND that the government has encouraged local hiring (not just recently but for a number of years) as I work in an MNC and I am involved in hiring. That is exactly what I meant by some of the public does not have the full picture. 

sigh... you did not even read what I write. Why do people keep thinking that the government has done nothing to encourage local hiring, or try to better the lives of locals? To me it is just plain illogical... with reasons stated earlier and I am too tired of repeating over and over again. 

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My friend, I hope I can help you understand the sentiment a bit better. Nobody is saying government encourage MNC to employ their own nationality. Encourage is very vague. What rules and actions are in place to govern this? Limit to 10% , permits scrutinised and data send to MOE to be question in parliament why we aim wrong subjects? MOM has published fact sheets that their encouragement didn't work. So your company could be a better one. Can share the percentage and what are these people employed for just to better understand? 

[Wind30]

  On 8/6/2020 at 10:52 AM, Victor68 said:

My friend, I hope I can help you understand the sentiment a bit better. Nobody is saying government encourage MNC to employ their own nationality. Encourage is very vague. What rules and actions are in place to govern this? Limit to 10% , permits scrutinised and data send to MOE to be question in parliament why we aim wrong subjects? MOM has published fact sheets that their encouragement didn't work. So your company could be a better one. Can share the percentage and what are these people employed for just to better understand? 

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If your stand is government could have done better, then what should they have done instead? 
The most common sentiment I see is government should do better, but how? Nobody knows. 
I don’t work in hr, I don’t know how many ft... we want to hire local for sure... biased towards local

[Angcheek]

If they can control COE and cars ... they can manage recruitment.  It is just a matter of they wan or not. 😁 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Angcheek

[Wt_know]

  On 8/6/2020 at 11:40 AM, Angcheek said:

If they cant control COE and cars ... they can manage recruitment.  It is just a matter of they wan or not. 😁 

 

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haha ... in sinkieland nothing COE cannot resolve

to hire a FT PMET must bid for certificate of eligibility!

but cost will be passed on to end user ... LLST ... lol

Edited August 6, 2020 by Wt_know

[Kangadrool]

  On 8/6/2020 at 11:46 AM, Wt_know said:

haha ... in sinkieland nothing COE cannot resolve

to hire a FT PMET must bid for certificate of eligibility!

but cost will be passed on to end user ... LLST ... lol

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At least the numbers are controlled.