MOM takes action against 47 firms & investigating 240 others for possibly favouring foreign job applicants over S'poreans

[Wt_know]

KJ says one ... 

  Quote

"bank where foreigners of the same nationality made up "almost two-thirds" of the PMETs"

isn't this what all MCF has been saying for multiple years like dry clutch? Now then caught ?

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[Fcw75]

  On 8/6/2020 at 3:56 AM, Wind30 said:

honestly, I am not sure if I should be bothered to try to convince you...

You think Singapore is big shot? If those big companies move out what happens? It is not just about jobs, those expats spend their money living in Singapore, from Childcare, rental, F&B. They pay their similar income taxes but receive far less benefits than citizens.

I really feel this anti-FT sentiment will drive singapore to the ground... It is a bit like UK leaving EU. UK is far bigger than singapore so maybe they have a chance. 

I am pretty sure Singapore won't stand a chance if the people are not smart enough to realise we need FT, and not just a few...

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If nothing is done about the FTs and more and more true blue Singaporeans are displaced from PMET positions, Singapore will also be driven to the ground.

You can say all you want now because the huge influx of FTs haven't affected you (maybe it has benefited you in terms of rental). One day it will and if not you, it will be your kids. 

The ruling party has never been really concerned about Singaporeans, only about GDP. Let's face it.

And it started only after LHL became PM. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Fcw75

[Wt_know]

err ... this means EP got a salary raise?  

expectation: fresh grads and local poly can get $3.9K

reality: firm rather and prefer hire EP with $3.9K?

  Quote

The salary criteria for hiring foreigners on an EP will also be raised. From 1 May, the minimum monthly salary for foreign professionals to qualify for an EP will go up from $3,600 to $3,900. “This increase is in line with improving wages of fresh graduates of local autonomous universities,” she pointed out.

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Edited August 6, 2020 by Wt_know

[Lethalstrike]

  On 8/6/2020 at 3:56 AM, Wind30 said:

honestly, I am not sure if I should be bothered to try to convince you...

You think Singapore is big shot? If those big companies move out what happens? It is not just about jobs, those expats spend their money living in Singapore, from Childcare, rental, F&B. They pay their similar income taxes but receive far less benefits than citizens.

I really feel this anti-FT sentiment will drive singapore to the ground... It is a bit like UK leaving EU. UK is far bigger than singapore so maybe they have a chance. 

I am pretty sure Singapore won't stand a chance if the people are not smart enough to realise we need FT, and not just a few...

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No need to be a FT sympathiser here. And the straw man argument about being anti FT doesn't stand. Also, FTs can pack up, go home and go elsewhere, a local has no such choice. You say they pay their income taxes here? I say it's only fair for them to pay their dues for the security and stability here. 

Singaporeans have never been against foreigners working here right from the start. Nobody is saying we have to chase the foreigners out, nor are we saying we need to keep them out at all costs. Singaporeans are asking for a BALANCE, and it's only rightfully so. 

The obvious problem is when the lax policies resulted in having qualified Singaporeans being displaced mid-career and having less opportunities at the starting stages of their careers (the younger graduates). You attract the MNCs here to keep jobs, but not enough jobs are going to the locals. This is the issue. 

 

[Weez911]

Well, you guys gave the People Action Party a blank cheque to sign whichever agreement they want, to boost their own salary as their major KPI is GDP, which is also set by themselves. 

All blank cheques.

Singaporeans voted for PAP to screw themselves hard in the butt. Screw your kids butts also. Well done Singaporeans and all the IB in this thread circle jerking here.

Cue KJ famous words.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Weez911

[Fcw75]

  On 8/6/2020 at 4:59 AM, Weez911 said:

Well, you guys gave the People Action Party a blank cheque to sign whichever agreement they want, to boost their own salary as their major KPI is GDP, which is also set by themselves. 

All blank cheques.

Singaporeans voted for PAP to screw themselves hard in the butt. Screw your kids butts also. Well done Singaporeans and all the IB in this thread circle jerking here.

Cue KJ famous words.

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I said before. 

A lot of sinkies like to be F in the arse then turned around KPKB a bit and then continue to be F in the arse! 

[Wind30]

  On 8/6/2020 at 4:48 AM, Lethalstrike said:

No need to be a FT sympathiser here. And the straw man argument about being anti FT doesn't stand. Also, FTs can pack up, go home and go elsewhere, a local has no such choice. You say they pay their income taxes here? I say it's only fair for them to pay their dues for the security and stability here. 

Singaporeans have never been against foreigners working here right from the start. Nobody is saying we have to chase the foreigners out, nor are we saying we need to keep them out at all costs. Singaporeans are asking for a BALANCE, and it's only rightfully so. 

The obvious problem is when the lax policies resulted in having qualified Singaporeans being displaced mid-career and having less opportunities at the starting stages of their careers (the younger graduates). You attract the MNCs here to keep jobs, but not enough jobs are going to the locals. This is the issue. 

 

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That is the main problem, Balance. I thought the government has balance but the some of the public have zero balance...

It is COMMON sense. Are we a democracy? Do you believe we are a democracy? Why would a democratically elected government favor FT??? it just does not make sense...

The government will have thought of ways to encourage local hiring without killing the economy. Some of the public, on the other hand, don't see the broader economy. They don't have accurate information. They aren't objective. 

People have to start thinking about the paths open to Singapore, and which ones they want to take.

Will making it harder for MNCs to hire FT help giving more jobs to locals? You have to think about that SERIOUSLY. Let me put some numbers out. What is the right balance for you?

Lets say there are 5 MNCs with 80% FT/20% Locals hiring.  you want them to double their local hiring to 60% FT/ 40% locals... 3 of them managed to do what is required after much pain while 2 of them decide to pack up and go. 

Is that a win for Singapore??? Think about it... 

 

 

 

[CYHew]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:06 AM, Fcw75 said:

I said before. 

A lot of sinkies like to be F in the arse then turned around KPKB a bit and then continue to be F in the arse! 

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why so?  because we Singaporeans being law-abiding citizens had been too obedient to what Gov said.. hey, wasn't this the result of the education system designed for?!

[Wt_know]

  On 8/6/2020 at 4:59 AM, Weez911 said:

Cue KJ famous words.

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KJ outdated liao ... the new Chairman more tok kong ...

Edited August 6, 2020 by Wt_know

[Victor68]

I don't think there is a country out there that welcome investment and the company employs all their own people. Of course that is extreme but in Singapore, we do see such behavior where majority are their own people. MOM just confirmed it, so cannot be wrong.

It is also not true nobody will come and invest here if we don't allow all their staff to be from their country. It didn't happen in the past when we were a developing nation. If now we are in this situation, something fundamentally is wrong and something must have changed. Education, government or we simply open the flood gate too wide? We have a multi-million dollar cabinet that is suppose to solve all these problems, otherwise we should get cheaper ones since nobody knows how to solve anyway. 

[Fcw75]

The HR manager should never be a foreigner. 

It's like asking someone to be the gatekeeper but that someone is from the same village that he is suppose to prevent from coming in. 

[Victor68]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:31 AM, Fcw75 said:

The HR manager should never be a foreigner. 

It's like asking someone to be the gatekeeper but that someone is from the same village that he is suppose to prevent from coming in. 

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While this might be true, if your boss instructs you to only select his country men otherwise you pack your bag. It will still not solve this problem. So, who control the work permits and work permits are not free. What are their duties beside printing the forms, filing them and signing the documentations? 

[Lethalstrike]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:17 AM, Wind30 said:

That is the main problem, Balance. I thought the government has balance but the some of the public have zero balance...

It is COMMON sense. Are we a democracy? Do you believe we are a democracy? Why would a democratically elected government favor FT??? it just does not make sense...

The government will have thought of ways to encourage local hiring without killing the economy. Some of the public, on the other hand, don't see the broader economy. They don't have accurate information. They aren't objective. 

People have to start thinking about the paths open to Singapore, and which ones they want to take.

Will making it harder for MNCs to hire FT help giving more jobs to locals? You have to think about that SERIOUSLY. Let me put some numbers out. What is the right balance for you?

Lets say there are 5 MNCs with 80% FT/20% Locals hiring.  you want them to double their local hiring to 60% FT/ 40% locals... 3 of them managed to do what is required after much pain while 2 of them decide to pack up and go. 

Is that a win for Singapore??? Think about it... 

 

 

 

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Don't forget that a WIN for Singapore is not just about being economically relevant globally, but it must also be a societal WIN for Singapore. At what cost is that to your society here in Singapore? Is that even healthy and sustainable, to a prosperous Singapore in the long run?

In your own words, you thought the govt will have *thought of ways to encourage to local hiring. They didn't, thus the damage control we are seeing these few days after GE. You  have the sense to observe the furore from some of the general public over this, and this is already the tip of the iceberg in terms of unhappiness within the society. This is the society cost which you didn't even consider in your arguments. 

Asking the people to be objective when the govt's objective isn't on helping it's own is a big oxymoron. 

The world today is a complicated place and unpredictable, it is not so simple as saying as long as we allow FTs in unchecked, keep all companies here and automatically we are winners. What makes you think Singapore's competitors cannot adopt the same exact strategy in the future, open up to more foreigners and possibly doing it cheaper than us with their land mass and bigger domestic market? You want to bank on a strategy about starting a race to the bottom, and make that strategy of Singapore for the next 20 years? 

You're the one who needs to do some serious thinking. 

 

[Kb27]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:31 AM, Fcw75 said:

The HR manager should never be a foreigner. 

It's like asking someone to be the gatekeeper but that someone is from the same village that he is suppose to prevent from coming in. 

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It's like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

[Wind30]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:44 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Don't forget that a WIN for Singapore is not just about being economically relevant globally, but it must also be a societal WIN for Singapore. At what cost is that to your society here in Singapore? Is that even healthy and sustainable, to a prosperous Singapore in the long run?

In your own words, you thought the govt will have *thought of ways to encourage to local hiring. They didn't, thus the damage control we are seeing these few days after GE. You  have the sense to observe the furore from some of the general public over this, and this is already the tip of the iceberg in terms of unhappiness within the society. This is the society cost which you didn't even consider in your arguments. 

 

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... I know for FIRST HAND that the government has encouraged local hiring (not just recently but for a number of years) as I work in an MNC and I am involved in hiring. That is exactly what I meant by some of the public does not have the full picture. 

sigh... you did not even read what I write. Why do people keep thinking that the government has done nothing to encourage local hiring, or try to better the lives of locals? To me it is just plain illogical... with reasons stated earlier and I am too tired of repeating over and over again. 

[ToyotaShuttle]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:31 AM, Fcw75 said:

The HR manager should never be a foreigner. 

It's like asking someone to be the gatekeeper but that someone is from the same village that he is suppose to prevent from coming in. 

Expand  

 

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:47 AM, Kb27 said:

It's like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

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Since when is the HR manager's job to be a gatekeeper and keep foreigners out? That's MOM's job.

HR manager's job is recruitment to meet the company's needs. If he can do that while achieving his own personal goal of hiring his own kaki then all the power to him. If he is doing a bad job and hiring all the wrong people, then the company management should take him to task.

[Lethalstrike]

  On 8/6/2020 at 5:55 AM, Wind30 said:

... I know for FIRST HAND that the government has encouraged local hiring (not just recently but for a number of years) as I work in an MNC and I am involved in hiring. That is exactly what I meant by some of the public does not have the full picture. 

sigh... you did not even read what I write. Why do people keep thinking that the government has done nothing to encourage local hiring, or try to better the lives of locals? To me it is just plain illogical... with reasons stated earlier and I am too tired of repeating over and over again. 

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You don't have to repeat yourself.

Since you had first hand experience to the point that you need to CAPS it, share with the very people who you think are saying otherwise here what concrete measures the government had taken to encourage local hiring. It's then up for everyone to debate if these measures are effective. I can also read and hear for myself what they had done from the news. Effective or not on the ground is not for you or me to judge, unless we are at the receiving end of the stick. 

What about me not reading what you wrote? I'm simply refuting what you wrote, that certainly doesn't count as me not responding to you appropriately if I disagree. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lethalstrike

[Wind30]

  On 8/6/2020 at 6:02 AM, Lethalstrike said:

You don't have to repeat yourself.

Since you had first hand experience to the point that you need to CAPS it, share with the very people who you think are saying otherwise here what concrete measures the government had taken to encourage local hiring. It's then up for everyone to debate if these measures are effective. I can also read and hear for myself what they had done from the news. Effective or not on the ground not is for you or me to judge, unless we are at the receiving end of the stick. 

What about me not reading what you wrote? I'm simply refuting what you wrote, that certainly doesn't count as me not responding to you appropriately if I disagree. 

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People don't like to discuss company related stuff on a public forum.

Lets just put it this way, every EDB grant to the MNCs that I have visibility to, comes with clauses to hire a minimum number of locals (Citizen+PRs). The funding for locals is also very different. 

You can argue whether it is effective or not but you cannot say the government is not doing anything or not trying. That is the main issue with your post initially. 

Honestly, I feel there are a LOT of FT in CBP. I am not privy to why there is so many FTs... so I don't think I can judge on the right balance of FT. Aiya, in the end, there is no point discussing this because there is just not enough information to make the call on how many FT is needed.

I know my workplace needs their FT... if we don't have them, it does not work. Do we need everyone of them? obviously not...  which ones do we don't need? it hard to answer...