Do You Know Your House Could be Registered as Tenanted by FWs?

[Sdf4786k]

14 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

This is another issue I have with our authorities. So many different process / standard for doing the same thing.

1) To apply for work / dependent / visitor passes, one need to declare a local address to ICA and MOM (except short term visitor pass). As far as I know, no verification with address owner needed. Thus has nothing to do with Sing Pass account. 

2) To rent out HDB flat / room to foreigner, owner need to submit the request to HDB, and input the details of individual tenants (quite a tedious process) via Sing Pass. It is also the owner responsibility to update HDB via Sing Pass once the tenant is no longer staying in the property. 

The worst part of the HDB subletting is , IF the landlord do not perform an audit check and their tenant that committed the breach of having the flat to be used for further subletting or overstayer, the HDB owner goes to jail.

So you can imagine, if your parents aren't out the HDB flat and stay with the kids and subsequently the talent did any hanky panky, the landlord still goes to jail.

I feel there is a loophole here where the risk to the tenant committing the crime and the long arms of the law that comes after them is towards the wrong person. 

 

[Sdf4786k]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:25 PM, Atrecord said:

Late morning, i was on a Teams meeting, W'ingFH.

My doorbell bo battery, and there was knocking on the door. My father went to open the door, and a conversation started. My father is 86 btw, although still very healthy and fit, could sometimes be 'defensive' -- when got strangers come knocking. 😀

After a minute or two, i told my colleague i need to attend to something first, and ended the call, then went to the door.

Got 3 persons standing there, and my father then let me take over. The 3 officers identified themselves as from MOM, and said they were checking on whether we rent or had rented out our house/room to Foreign Workers before. I said no, and they said they're checking cos there is one FW who registered his residential address using our address! Now that's a shock...

The officer then explained that if it's not true, then the registration is wrong (i can't remember if he used 'illegal'), and suggested that I go online to check and if need be, to block my address from being used for this purpose. Then another officer took out her handphone to show me the website where this can be done. They then asked me for my name and contact number just in case MOM needs to check anything with me, and left.

I was a little shocked, and when i told my parents, they of course started more comments, more shocked, etc. etc. 😂

I then went online -- as advised -- to check, and to my surprise, saw not one, but four, FWs registered to my address!!!

The webpage advised to email a complain to MOM if anything is inaccurate, and i did that. Then i removed the 4 names and proceeded to update the record.

Not sure whether there's any implication on my address being used, but thought it's useful to share this here. Have never heard of this before...

You might want to check whether your address is also being used, and even if not, you can check the "block" option in the webpage so that nobody can use your address even if they want to.

The website -- need SingPass to login -- to check is Foreign Worker Tenant Enquiry Service (FWTES)

 

Can you file a police report of misuse of computer act instead?

That has a higher repercussion. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/12-weeks-jail-for-woman-who-submitted-false-information-to-workforce

https://www.tnp.sg/news/singapore/ex-grab-driver-used-clients-phone-give-himself-five-stars

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/work-dodging-parking-officer-jailed-for-penalising-innocent-motorists

Edited June 6, 2020 by Sdf4786k

[Atrecord]

7 hours ago, Sdf4786k said:

Can you file a police report of misuse of computer act instead?

That has a higher repercussion. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/12-weeks-jail-for-woman-who-submitted-false-information-to-workforce

https://www.tnp.sg/news/singapore/ex-grab-driver-used-clients-phone-give-himself-five-stars

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/work-dodging-parking-officer-jailed-for-penalising-innocent-motorists

Just told some friends about this, and one guy who's a property agent, also suggested i go file a police report.

Am wondering whether need to be so 夸张 or not...

[13177]

8 hours ago, Sdf4786k said:

The worst part of the HDB subletting is , IF the landlord do not perform an audit check and their tenant that committed the breach of having the flat to be used for further subletting or overstayer, the HDB owner goes to jail.

So you can imagine, if your parents aren't out the HDB flat and stay with the kids and subsequently the talent did any hanky panky, the landlord still goes to jail.

I feel there is a loophole here where the risk to the tenant committing the crime and the long arms of the law that comes after them is towards the wrong person. 

 

It is quite common to find tenant further subletting the room to another person without the knowledge of the owner. As owner also cannot spot check on their tenant often and sometimes even they go spot check, might not able to catch them.

[Sdf4786k]

11 hours ago, Atrecord said:

Just told some friends about this, and one guy who's a property agent, also suggested i go file a police report.

Am wondering whether need to be so 夸张 or not...

I feel like the rule here like what I quote for leasing of hdb is so different from the perception that we choose to understand. And that is the person who sub lease of a sublease illegally should be taken to task and not the landlord.

but to each his own I suppose..

[13177]

14 minutes ago, Sdf4786k said:

I feel like the rule here like what I quote for leasing of hdb is so different from the perception that we choose to understand. And that is the person who sub lease of a sublease illegally should be taken to task and not the landlord.

but to each his own I suppose..

Could be they view it as it is owner responsibility to check and ensure their tenant not to sublease illegally?

[inlinesix]

11 hours ago, Atrecord said:

Just told some friends about this, and one guy who's a property agent, also suggested i go file a police report.

Am wondering whether need to be so 夸张 or not...

Definitely 

[Karoon]

So the concerns here are:

1. Our online records are not consistent among the various govt bodies. 

2. No checking mechanism for people to use invalid addresses

3. Potentially, there could be an underground service going round checking postboxes ?? 

[Atrecord]

On 6/7/2020 at 8:47 AM, Sdf4786k said:

I feel like the rule here like what I quote for leasing of hdb is so different from the perception that we choose to understand. And that is the person who sub lease of a sublease illegally should be taken to task and not the landlord.

but to each his own I suppose..

For HDB rental, by right is supposed to be approved by HDB, which means need to apply to HDB for approval when renting out. To do so, must provide all the work pass details during the HDB application. 

The tenants - if smart - should insist that the landlord provides such evidence (of HDB approval), if they want to have peace of mind renting the flat - so that they will not be caught as staying there illegally.

And in order for the landlord to do this, should ask to see the work passes of the tenants so as to apply to HDB for approval.

It's a chicken and egg thing, but it works both ways. For a major tenant who wants to sub-lease out the rooms, they should also do this lor.

[Atrecord]

On 6/7/2020 at 9:26 AM, inlinesix said:

Definitely 

OK, took your suggestion and i filed a mata report online last night.

See if there will be any follow up...

[Atrecord]

4 hours ago, Karoon said:

So the concerns here are:

1. Our online records are not consistent among the various govt bodies. 

2. No checking mechanism for people to use invalid addresses

3. Potentially, there could be an underground service going round checking postboxes ?? 

I think you got 100 marks there...

wanna write to forum or FB to raise this? 😆

[UncleAtas]

Thanks! No wonder I kept receiving mails for FWs.

Already reported to MOM.

[bsswan]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:25 PM, Atrecord said:

Late morning, i was on a Teams meeting, W'ingFH.

...

Got 3 persons standing there, and my father then let me take over. The 3 officers identified themselves as from MOM, and said they were checking on whether we rent or had rented out our house/room to Foreign Workers before. I said no, and they said they're checking cos there is one FW who registered his residential address using our address! Now that's a shock...

The officer then explained that if it's not true, then the registration is wrong (i can't remember if he used 'illegal'), and suggested that I go online to check and if need be, to block my address from being used for this purpose. Then another officer took out her handphone to show me the website where this can be done. They then asked me for my name and contact number just in case MOM needs to check anything with me, and left.

MoM knocked on my door last week. Indian guy with MoM Visitor Pass first (in hindsight I see he was expecting to translate).

I am a tenant, but not the FW one they were looking for. Asked when I moved in so I told them and also said "The tenant that was here before us, also not FW type" since we met during our search.

With that, took all my detail and wandered off.

[Ct3833]

Maybe from the contact tracing recently they begin to realise how big the problem is FW using phantom address ,  it is why they start to perform the check.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Ct3833

[Atrecord]

8 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

Maybe from the contact tracing recently they begin to realise how big the problem is FW using phantom address ,  it is why they start to perform the check.

hmm... good point. Maybe the one(s) using my address was infected, and there were trying to find who was in contact... 

but that would be MOH area...

Or maybe they were trying to find one guy who might be a close contact of someone infected, and in MOM database, found my address... 😓

[Atrecord]

Anyway, more than 3 weeks after I'd lodged the complaint at MOM website, today received an acknowledgement from MOM:

Quote

 

On Tuesday, 30 June 2020, 12:01:41 pm GMT+8, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

 

FMMD/BCA/202006/xxxxxx - Acknowledgement of Receipt of Feedback

 

 

 

         Thank you for your feedback.

 

 

2.      We have registered your report of a possible offence under the Employment of Foreign Manpower Act / Employment Agencies Act. We will assess the information and will get back to you if we require further information.

 

 

3.      For future correspondence with the ministry concerning this issue, you may email to [email protected] and cite this Reference Number FMMD/BCA/202006/xxxxx.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yours sincerely 

Customer Responsiveness Branch, Foreign Manpower Management Division.

Ministry of Manpower

 

 

Not v efficient leh... 😅

considering this is GE time...

[Wildfaye29]

same. i reported on 5 jun. tdy got this email. its 25 days.

[bsswan]

The last couple of months my office has started receiving mail for FW we don't have (I know that since our count = zero).

When we moved into the office 7-8yrs ago we got hundreds, all addressed to a construction company, but after we delivered two carrier bags full to the company that posted them, it went quiet.

The office is not HDB or residential so cannot register as a place to live. What's the option left, just write "Not at this address" on the envelope and return to sender?

There seems to be a few things that need better supervision.