COVID-19: Retrenchments

[Sdf4786k]

10 hours ago, inlinesix said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/parliament-mom-to-consider-beefing-up-resources-to-tackle-unfair-hiring-practices-minister

dont even need to ensured company excluded in the govt tender. Just make sure all those that tender for govt contract company have a mandatory CAT 1 clearance of at least 80% of the employees hired. You already solve the issue liao. 

We have all the tools in place. Just that someone gotton lazy and just modify the Nike slogan. " Just anyhow do it"

 

[Yewheng]

26 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Actually no.  Cos if they get a $10 dollar increase in salary for a $0.10 increase in costs, they gain.

Example.  Let's say cleaner.

Normally customers pay $5 for a hawker meal.  Now they pay $6 dollars a meal cos of cleaning costs.  Let's say the cleaner gets  salary increment of $100 monthly as a result.  It is a zero sum game if the cleaner eats 100 hawker meal a month.  But in reality, likely not.  

But there is a bit of socialist thinking in the sense that maybe a person taking home $5000 a month can afford to take home $4900 a month after extra deductions so that a person taking home $1000 a month can now take home $1100. It seems like a handout in a way but that is what makes society human.

Otherwise we should ignore all the needy people because they are not contributing to society and giving them would be handouts and perpetuate a cycle of neediness.

Not saying you are wrong but there must be a balance and I think we are too skewed in one direction and now WP is trying to get society to move a little bit in the other direction.  I emphasise a little bit in the other direction.  Some people would have an all or nothing thinking.  Either fully in one direction or the other.  I think a balance is what is needed.

But I feel the approach should be see where can reduce government regulations, see where can reduce rules and etc.. No one actually bring this up except for one which is seah kian Peng that talk about he want to reverse of rules - fewer rules and more discretion and kindness. It is really easy to make government bigger and bigger but it is very hard to make government smaller. Politicians always like to take the easy way out of expending government and that ultimately cause the increase cost of living, harder to do business and etc. So really must applause seah kian peng to bring that out. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Yewheng

[Roh96]

Wah..now hot topic is FT taking jobs from local. House on fire than start to cho kang and catch 47 companies.

All these while someone in MOM must be sleeping at work and allowing companies to hire foreigners up to 75% of their headcount. KNN.

All start covering their backside, MAS jump in, Heng jump in...say changi biz park is not the result of CECA. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Roh96

[Yewheng]

3 minutes ago, Roh96 said:

Wah..now hot topic is FT taking jobs from local. House on fire than start to cho kang and catch 47 companies.

All these while someone in MOM must be sleeping at work and allowing companies to hire foreigners up to 75% of their headcount. KNN.

It seems like concentrated in 1 sector which is financial sectors where lots of Indian nationality worked at Changi business park and that had been ongoing for very long time. Not months, its years. So now politicians need to ask themselves why it only happened at Changi business park and not other place else. So what is the difference between other sectors? 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Yewheng

[Philipkee]

10 minutes ago, Roh96 said:

Wah..now hot topic is FT taking jobs from local. House on fire than start to cho kang and catch 47 companies.

All these while someone in MOM must be sleeping at work and allowing companies to hire foreigners up to 75% of their headcount. KNN.

I like the story of the open city strategy from romance of the three kingdom. 

Basically, there was a time when Zhuge Liang, a military genius, was fleeing when he came to this city.  In order to buy time for his soldiers fo escape, he ordered the city to have the gates open while some commoners could be seen sweeping the floor without a care in the world.  Zhuge Liang saw on top of the city walls and played a musical instrument and watched the enemy come.  The enemy suspected a trap and retreated.   Hence, open city strategy.

So now, imagine the city is the goal (be it hiring their kumpung, commiting crimes etc), Zhuge Liang as the law enforcer or ministry and the advancing general as anyone who wants to break the law.  

Years ago, this strategy works.  Cos we singaporeans are trained to be law abiding and kiasi and when we see the general sitting on the wall looking at us calmly, we chicken out and don't commit a crime.  But now we have many foreigners who have different cultures.  They are walking through the gates, testing their luck, and they are realising nothing is stopping them.  And they keep advancing.

And our ministries are still employing this strategy, when it's not working.  

So it's not MOM sleeping or whatever.  It is the ministry making assumptions that everyone is law abiding and thus reacting accordingly, forgetting that different people are here now and they think differently from us.

[Fcw75]

9 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

I like the story of the open city strategy from romance of the three kingdom. 

Basically, there was a time when Zhuge Liang, a military genius, was fleeing when he came to this city.  In order to buy time for his soldiers fo escape, he ordered the city to have the gates open while some commoners could be seen sweeping the floor without a care in the world.  Zhuge Liang saw on top of the city walls and played a musical instrument and watched the enemy come.  The enemy suspected a trap and retreated.   Hence, open city strategy.

So now, imagine the city is the goal (be it hiring their kumpung, commiting crimes etc), Zhuge Liang as the law enforcer or ministry and the advancing general as anyone who wants to break the law.  

Years ago, this strategy works.  Cos we singaporeans are trained to be law abiding and kiasi and when we see the general sitting on the wall looking at us calmly, we chicken out and don't commit a crime.  But now we have many foreigners who have different cultures.  They are walking through the gates, testing their luck, and they are realising nothing is stopping them.  And they keep advancing.

And our ministries are still employing this strategy, when it's not working.  

So it's not MOM sleeping or whatever.  It is the ministry making assumptions that everyone is law abiding and thus reacting accordingly, forgetting that different people are here now and they think differently from us.

It is what it is.

MOM was sleeping on the job. 

[Philipkee]

12 minutes ago, Fcw75 said:

It is what it is.

MOM was sleeping on the job. 

I would say they were on auto pilot or making assumptions.

Sleeping on the job implies they did nothing.  I believe they did, but they assumed everyone  is obedient.

Example.  Let's say forum moderators.  Sleeping on the job means they never log in to check.  On auto pilot means they got log in but just look see look see and log out.

Of course, maybe it's just different words describing the same thing.

[Mockngbrd]

19 minutes ago, Fcw75 said:

It is what it is.

MOM was sleeping on the job. 

Was? 

[Throttle2]

10 hours ago, Yewheng said:

That's the problem, because politicians scared to lose vote and thus implement more and more of socialist policy to win people vote. The problem is that these socialist policies are the one that causes all the economic and social problem. When we keep hear about trade off, like pritam Singh even talked about trade off that even if it cause in increase cost of living and we still must try for the benefit of less well of individuals? Does it make sense? All these are because of politicians just want to win people vote where unintended consequences they also don't care as long as win people vote that count.. Haiz.. 

 

https://mothership.sg/2020/08/pritam-leader-opposition-speech-summary/

This part it contradict right? Greater help should be offered for those who need it the most even if it means there is price to pay in terms of higher cost for end consumer? Doesn't those who need help the most are also the end consumer? So how does rising prices help those who need help the most? In fact those that need help the most are the one that if price increase, will affect them the most. 

 

The rest of pritiam Singh speech not too bad except this part. 

 

Its either you understand or you dont.

so i bet you understood lah

 

[Mockngbrd]

I am ok with a slight increase in cost if it means the $$$ can be channelled to helping others that really need it, heck I'll be even more ok with reducing PAP salaries to offset such an incentive. Yes, there will always be those who will try to abuse such a system, but that is another issue. 

 

 

 

[13177]

39 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

I would say they were on auto pilot or making assumptions.

Sleeping on the job implies they did nothing.  I believe they did, but they assumed everyone  is obedient.

Example.  Let's say forum moderators.  Sleeping on the job means they never log in to check.  On auto pilot means they got log in but just look see look see and log out.

Of course, maybe it's just different words describing the same thing.

Whether they are sleeping on the job or making assumptions, this is nothing new liao since long long time ago. 

[Sdf4786k]

1 hour ago, Yewheng said:

It seems like concentrated in 1 sector which is financial sectors where lots of Indian nationality worked at Changi business park and that had been ongoing for very long time. Not months, its years. So now politicians need to ask themselves why it only happened at Changi business park and not other place else. So what is the difference between other sectors? 

 

Really meh. Indian ?

What if its china banking or any of the investment arm that is maybe Finnish or US and hire only US or Chinese people ?

Unless MOM publish its India, we have to remain cautious that it could be any country even if our observation skew towards india.

And all of us get labelled Xenophobic again.

[ToyotaShuttle]

21 minutes ago, Sdf4786k said:

Really meh. Indian ?

What if its china banking or any of the investment arm that is maybe Finnish or US and hire only US or Chinese people ?

Unless MOM publish its India, we have to remain cautious that it could be any country even if our observation skew towards india.

And all of us get labelled Xenophobic again.

What you are saying doesn't work. If MOM don't come out and say anything then we have to keep quiet forever?

We'll express our feelings based on our observations - if MOM has any data to refute it, we are all ears.

Edited September 1, 2020 by ToyotaShuttle

[Sdf4786k]

Just now, ToyotaShuttle said:

What you are saying doesn't work. If MOM don't come out and say anything then we have to keep quiet forever?

no, thats not what I am saying, we can also play the " certain country " game like how we play the mini star game.

 

[Voodooman]

Arguments against quota for EP.   Business will always want unlimited labor, skilled or not skilled.

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/government-economy/singapore-businesses-alarmed-by-growing-protectionist-calls

This is especially as Mr Tay also suggested that if measures including the EP salary hike bear no fruit, a two-tiered EP quota for higher-skilled and mid-skilled workers could be considered.

The Singapore Business Federation said it would not support such a move. One reason is optics, said its chief, Ho Meng Kit. "The idea of a quota or a limit to the number of PMEs that our economy can admit runs counter to the nature of our economy, which must remain open to trade, investments and important connections to the world."

Selena Ling, head of treasury research and strategy at OCBC Bank, also said that once hard targets are set, it may give rise to concerns of "reverse discrimination".

Economist Walter Theseira, an associate professor at the Singapore University of Social Sciences, noted that the government has historically worried about discouraging businesses from choosing to plant themselves in Singapore.

And quotas, especially for high-skilled labour that is short in Singapore and much less substitutable, mean Singapore could lose certain sectors to other countries, he said.

The implementation of a quota system will also inadvertently force policymakers to make difficult decisions as to how the quotas will be allocated to companies and sectors, observers noted.

But at the end of the day, the broader issue is arising due to concerns over the cost of growth to the Singaporean identity, Prof Theseira noted. "Do we really want to have an economy that's large and vibrant but run by foreigners because we don't have the skill to do it?

"I don't think Singapore wants to go down that route, but some Singaporeans fear that we may be going down that route in some sectors."

[Albeniz]

2 quick questions.

For employees on S-pass and Employment Pass, if they are retrenched and not holding on to a job,  what is the grace period they are allowed to stay in Singapore?

The next question is, during this Covid situation when air travels are highly restricted and borders closed, are they still required to return to their home country immediately or are they allowed to stay here (over a more extended period) without a job?

Edited September 4, 2020 by Albeniz

[Albeniz]

On 8/31/2020 at 11:02 AM, Fcw75 said:

All are migrants yes. But the difference is we became a melting pot and form a Singapore identity whereas those CECA people doesn’t even try to blend in and form their own enclave. On top of that, with their arrogant attitude. Ramesh anyone? 

Seriously one just have to take a walk at CBP and the condos at East Coast, Simei and Tanjong Rhu. The eyes don’t lie.

East Coast Park won't lie too.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Albeniz

[Philipkee]

On 9/1/2020 at 11:21 AM, Sdf4786k said:

no, thats not what I am saying, we can also play the " certain country " game like how we play the mini star game.

 

Not really.  Ministars can say you are so vague or on a fishing expedition and refuse to give their data also.  

Then all you can do is keep saying certain country but no further details forever.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Philipkee