COVID-19: Retrenchments

[Voodooman]

14 hours ago, Throttle2 said:

I disagree , bro.

Retrenchment should not be a question of conscience.  It just has to be done with respect and equitably.

Some people have to go so that some people can stay.  And ultimately the business can tide through. Thats all.

This means that someone retrenched may still be reemployed when things get back.

A true Leader must make difficult decisions and execute them as well.

Walking away becos he has no heart to do it, isnt the way, not for me at least.

Been there , done that on both sides of the fence.

Fair point on cutting people to save others and to allow the business to survive.  But these days, retrenchment is often the first resort, to boost share price and profit and that there is nothing morally wrong to fire people who are eking out a living and really needed the job. That is how it works. CEO needs to take care of shareholders first, otherwise their jobs will be first to go. 

Last time, retrenchment is always the last resort but more and more people will disagree.  Too much American kool-aid or maybe i am just not keeping up with the era.

These companies are returning more money to shareholders after cutting jobs
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/25/these-companies-are-returning-money-to-shareholders-after-cutting-jobs.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

Edited September 27, 2020 by Voodooman

[Throttle2]

1 hour ago, Sdf4786k said:

The emotional roller coaster of firing someone who has a kidney condition is never a nice feeling. Firing someone who just had a new infant of 1 month is also not a nice feeling. But I understand from a transactional relationship, who cares. While I feel that a animal kingdom exists and in reality it sort of reflects how we co exist, the memory of what has been performed as a ritual will cause pain that can never be express.

sure , it just a job to clean the environment. And we are not actually like killing innocent people in a mass Holocaust. But in reality you have to live with the burden of firing someone. Yet there are evidence that by reducing the ceo pay or getting rid of a whole continent of inefficient people would probably be a better option that to tighten a tap with one or two drips where the financial leak is like a waterfall. 
 

but yes I get it.. do as you told to evolve. But it’s just an opinion to some. To others it’s a guilt trip.

Yup its an absolute difficult position to be in on either sides of the table.  
honestly i dont see it as firing at all. 

I have retrenched and was retrenched.  Never tried to hide it, not even in this Forum.   It was very helpful for me, and i am not even talking about the money and shares i got. 

in certain situations, it was helping someone make a right decision that he or she cannot, sometimes.

let me share another specific experience

person in mid 50s with firm for about 8 yrs clearly struggling and almost hating what he is doing (during discussions and assessments over 2 yrs)  Given the standard package, one mth for one year of service, he would be better off reassessing his life situation and doing something better for his health with money in hand.

this compare to probably really dismissing him if numbers are missed again over next 2 quarters.  Dismissal becos off performance is gonna look very bad conpared to retrenchment due to company redundancies.

of course each situation is unique but that is life and true Leaders need to take it by the horns to make it better. 
 

good sunday, cheers

 

[Yewheng]

24 minutes ago, Spurman said:

Genuine case. Wondering if theres form of misappropiating these monies. Lawfully or not. Whether these fines are lawful or not.

 

Paying monies to get reinstatement sounds like a mafia job. .

 

Can this be brought up to mp too?

The thing is if at the onset of Ryde signing applications that is make known them them that if they get suspended and if want to reinstate it back or unsuspend it, need to pay certain fees. And if Ryde write it black and white on what situation contribute to suspension. Then it is okay if the suspension falls under that situation that is stated in black and white and also to collect fees to unsuspend account. However what drivers currently facing is for no reason Ryde suspend their account and then need to pay money to unsuspend it, not one but many drivers kanna. That is a red flag that authorities need to investigate whether is there any form of misappropriation of monies like that you mentioned. 

[Throttle2]

2 hours ago, Voodooman said:

Fair point on cutting people to save others and to allow the business to survive.  But these days, retrenchment is often the first resort, to boost share price and profit and that there is nothing morally wrong to fire people who are eking out a living and really needed the job. That is how it works. CEO needs to take care of shareholders first, otherwise their jobs will be first to go. 

Last time, retrenchment is always the last resort but more and more people will disagree.  Too much American kool-aid or maybe i am just not keeping up with the era.

These companies are returning more money to shareholders after cutting jobs
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/25/these-companies-are-returning-money-to-shareholders-after-cutting-jobs.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

Actually i was driving more on thebpoint that true Leaders should not just quit becos they dont want to do the dirty job.

wheyher retrenchment truly saves the business or its for show or whatever, that just depends on too many factors. 
in fact so often when we do the calculations, numbers may not work out.  The world we live in, sigh

Edited September 27, 2020 by Throttle2

[Mustank]

21 hours ago, Atonchia said:

Have a feeling more economic troubles are going to ensue once Gov support starts to end. 

More companies start to outsource job functions out. So incumbent become redundant. 

Another family I deliver ration also ask if can, recommend job to the son... just completed NSF. Think I should ask him to sign up with WSG. Currently doing odd job with food deliveries. 

GIG economy becoming more obvious now. 

 

An friend in mid 50s also just shared his employer also outsource the sales ops team to 3rd party, so whole team made redundant. Probably only a few will be transferred to new service provider. Most will need to start looking for new jobs. 

https://mothership.sg/2020/09/chan-chun-sing-jobs-singaporeans/

 

 

[Atonchia]

5 hours ago, Spurman said:

Hi broo.

 

I shared this with mp edward chia. Suggest go to mp immediately.  Btw edward is mp for zhenghua.  Not sure where your friend stays.

Zhenghua's meet people session is at blk 532 jelapang.

 

Hope this helps. Bring it om

I am not allow to reveal personal details. 

His ward MP is a minister. 

Will call and inform him to visit the MP. 

Thanks! 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Atonchia

[Atonchia]

5 hours ago, Windwaver said:

I agree with what you said to begin with. What I was trying to bring across is the true nature of homo sapiens.

Regardless of age/race/gender, etc, thousands of years of evolution didn't change the need to be in a social pack (and be recognized).

It's not wrong to be working in a team but it is detrimental once anybody starts having personal agendas. Even if the current team doesn't, it'll spread like wildfire once it's allowed to.

Unfortunately, that is reality; in modern fast paced society, everybody has a personal agenda that isn't team driven. I did mention about the worsening distrust on ground level due to the massive non-core work force some time back.

I've tried for many years and in different companies to be a good team member as well to build and retain good teams. I came close in a tiny fraction of occasion but most of the time, people are just either selfish (personal agenda) or distrust each other too much.

People can call me loner/anti-social/etc but it doesn't matter because just like an endless loop, a bad programmer can never perform a good root cause analysis and still blame others for it.

Yes, it is hard to let people go and it's equally hard to build a good team. After so many decades, I've given up on people. I just go to work and deliver what I'm supposed to, avoid stupid politics and spend real quality time with my family.

 

One important point is our SG business is growing YOY and the Covid situation isn't putting any dent. 

It's cutting cost from one channel to another.. 

I will say its personally motivated.. That's why felt disappointed when people make personally motivated decision for business. 

[Spurman]

2 hours ago, Atonchia said:

I am not allow to reveal personal details. 

His ward MP is a minister. 

Will call and inform him to visit the MP. 

Thanks! 

Great. Keep us posted. Hope the mp can help out quickly and resolve this unpleasant and unfair practicr metted by this company.

Totally unreasonable 

[Windwaver]

3 hours ago, Atonchia said:

One important point is our SG business is growing YOY and the Covid situation isn't putting any dent. 

It's cutting cost from one channel to another.. 

I will say its personally motivated.. That's why felt disappointed when people make personally motivated decision for business. 

I still remember the first time I had that feeling you described. No way around it unless you call the shots or the company's yours to begin with.

It took me some time to get around that reality and it benefited me later down my career being on the receiving end, not once but thrice and on two occasions, it was because big boss (personal decision) wanted somebody he knows to replace me (the only other occasion is truly a business decision, not a personal one) . My direct boss fought so hard (amazingly a foreigner) and got me a good package and we're still good friends to this day because I wasn't the one that screwed up.

I have every reason to believe most 'retrenchments' are personal agendas but I've also accepted that's reality.

If we exclude high SES ivory tower people that will never be threatened, people like us will need to adapt quickly all our lives. If we don't, we'll just be left behind.

Rather than being salty over situations, I choose to adapt and move with times because the world's never a fair place.

 

[Atonchia]

25 minutes ago, Windwaver said:

I still remember the first time I had that feeling you described. No way around it unless you call the shots or the company's yours to begin with.

It took me some time to get around that reality and it benefited me later down my career being on the receiving end, not once but thrice and on two occasions, it was because big boss (personal decision) wanted somebody he knows to replace me (the only other occasion is truly a business decision, not a personal one) . My direct boss fought so hard (amazingly a foreigner) and got me a good package and we're still good friends to this day because I wasn't the one that screwed up.

I have every reason to believe most 'retrenchments' are personal agendas but I've also accepted that's reality.

If we exclude high SES ivory tower people that will never be threatened, people like us will need to adapt quickly all our lives. If we don't, we'll just be left behind.

Rather than being salty over situations, I choose to adapt and move with times because the world's never a fair place.

 

Appreciate you advice!. 

Thank you. 

[Voodooman]

7 hours ago, Throttle2 said:

Actually i was driving more on thebpoint that true Leaders should not just quit becos they dont want to do the dirty job.

wheyher retrenchment truly saves the business or its for show or whatever, that just depends on too many factors. 
in fact so often when we do the calculations, numbers may not work out.  The world we live in, sigh

Understand bro.

Yes. It is a complicated world out there. 

[Windwaver]

3 hours ago, Atonchia said:

Appreciate you advice!. 

Thank you. 

Nah, it's not like I'm good enough to advise people.

I'm just here to share my personal experience and hopefully that'll make yours easier.

For those that still cannot get it, tell them It's like preparing ourselves for the last day of our lives. When it's time to go, there is no choice but to let go, what happens to people that can't do that? They still got to go except with great hatred and regrets (this holds true even if one has no religion).

We all can do ourselves and our love ones a big favor by learning that reality now. When the time comes, we all can leave in peace and it'll come naturally.

 

[Ct3833]

On 9/27/2020 at 8:27 AM, Scion said:

no need to be too loyal to the company, especially US MNCs which typically like the "fire and hire" policy

gone were the days of working in one same company for entire career life

i remember former CEO of HP Mark Hurd got himself a massive US40m bonus in 2006 or 07 (things were damn bullish then)

then crisis struck in 08/09 and he ruthlessly laid off so many HP employees that they (the USA ones) created a website to hoot him

needless to say, Singapore side also many tio pok (including me 😥)

anyway he died last year (guess many people will rejoice over it)... what's the use of so much money?

These people lay off staffs not because their  companies are not making, it is because their companies are not making enough  to give them more share options they want, not meeting the set forth earning per share etc. He did the same after joining the next company. One year on after his evaporation  , the "legend" contiues😅. But basically all the US listed MNCs are doing the same.

[inlinesix]

11 minutes ago, Ct3833 said:

These people lay off staffs not because their  companies are not making, it is because their companies are not making enough  to give them more share options they want, not meeting the set forth earning per share etc. He did the same after joining the next company. One year on after his evaporation  , the "legend" contiues😅. But basically all the US listed MNCs are doing the same.

US listed Corp is fixated on Quarterly Earning.

[Jamesc]

What car? I give him a good price. 

"For one pilot, having to take a pay cut has forced him to resort to borrowing money to keep his children in overseas universities. He is also trying to sell his car.

The 50-year-old pilot who declined to be named has been with the airline for 27 years."

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jamesc

[Jman888]

14 hours ago, Windwaver said:

I still remember the first time I had that feeling you described. No way around it unless you call the shots or the company's yours to begin with.

It took me some time to get around that reality and it benefited me later down my career being on the receiving end, not once but thrice and on two occasions, it was because big boss (personal decision) wanted somebody he knows to replace me (the only other occasion is truly a business decision, not a personal one) . My direct boss fought so hard (amazingly a foreigner) and got me a good package and we're still good friends to this day because I wasn't the one that screwed up.

I have every reason to believe most 'retrenchments' are personal agendas but I've also accepted that's reality.

If we exclude high SES ivory tower people that will never be threatened, people like us will need to adapt quickly all our lives. If we don't, we'll just be left behind.

Rather than being salty over situations, I choose to adapt and move with times because the world's never a fair place.

 

agree totally, you are paid to do YOUR job, if it comes with good boss good company then it is a bonus.

Do not expect a fair play in real world and blame the 'leader' or the system, when things doesn't go my way, either adapt or make it your way! it leader not good, you work hard and take over his job or become a leader that how you want it to be. If not quit every time until you find the ideal 'leader' you want to work for.

[Throttle2]

36 minutes ago, Jman888 said:

agree totally, you are paid to do YOUR job, if it comes with good boss good company then it is a bonus.

Do not expect a fair play in real world and blame the 'leader' or the system, when things doesn't go my way, either adapt or make it your way! it leader not good, you work hard and take over his job or become a leader that how you want it to be. If not quit every time until you find the ideal 'leader' you want to work for.

Yup its only business.  But we are only humans...

[Volvobrick]

50 minutes ago, Jamesc said:

What car? I give him a good price. 

"For one pilot, having to take a pay cut has forced him to resort to borrowing money to keep his children in overseas universities. He is also trying to sell his car.

The 50-year-old pilot who declined to be named has been with the airline for 27 years."

Poor chap - as a pilot for so long, he is unlikely to have any other work skills. 

Is it an AMG?