COVID-19: Retrenchments

[Fcw75]

6 minutes ago, Albeniz said:

Engineering, especially electrical and electronics, was once a well-sought after degree.  No 3 As in A-level, no talk. 

Now it has become a dumping ground.

With fewer and fewer people in this field, I hope it will become a niche domain again.

After it  has gone through a full cycle.

During my time, they hyped up Diploma in Mechatronic Eng and Quality Assurance Engineering course in the papers that me and my classmates foolishly signed up for it. Cut off points then were only 12 for 5 subjects.

Mechatronic Eng is the worst ever, no place to call home. During 3rd year project, need help go to Mechanical Dept asked us go Electronics Dept. Go Electronics Dept asked us go Mechanical Dept. 

None of my friends are in Engineering now including me. 

[Albeniz]

3 minutes ago, Fcw75 said:

During my time, they hyped up Diploma in Mechatronic Eng and Quality Assurance Engineering course in the papers that me and my classmates foolishly signed up for it. Cut off points then were only 12 for 5 subjects.

Mechatronic Eng is the worst ever, no place to call home. During 3rd year project, need help go to Mechanical Dept asked us go Electronics Dept. Go Electronics Dept asked us go Mechanical Dept. 

None of my friends are in Engineering now including me. 

Mechatronic?  Quite a few ended up flying drones and repairing robotic arms.

[Beehive3783]

On 3/10/2021 at 1:38 PM, Wind30 said:

I do agree I am blunt in my posts here in MCF, partly because I don't see the need to dress up the message. I don't tell people they are not smart enough face to face... nobody does that. Especially if you are a manager as I have to work to make sure everyone succeed once they are on the team. The way the IC industry works is, if ONE Guy makes a mistake, the entire chip fails. does not matter if it is a block like bandgap which is done millions of times. This is the main reason why I say "lower IQ people is not good to be IC design engineer". I mean lower IQ as someone who tends to make mistakes. In our industry, once the chip is out, it is out. It costs millions and months to fix mistakes. The chip takes MONTHS to come back before we realise that there is even a mistake....
People who get good grades are CAREFUL. They might not be super smart but they are careful. If you cannot be careful enough to do decent in Exams, how can you be careful enough not to make stupid mistakes in your design? 

I don't work in a pure R&D environment using government money... you can fail sure but it is going to cost time and money. Simple as that. 

And I don't direct any of my comments to anyone here personally right? It is about the Local engineering cohort in general. Some people here knows how bad current engineering cohort is. 

So... end of the day is that you are just scared to be sabotaged by a bobo engineer, resulting in a failed chip and resulting in your opened flower. Clear as day now

[Lethalstrike]

1 hour ago, Beehive3783 said:

So... end of the day is that you are just scared to be sabotaged by a bobo engineer, resulting in a failed chip and resulting in your opened flower. Clear as day now

What he wants is a proven track record and a proven winner, at maybe the cost of a fresh graduate out of engineering school. 😅

Many of our scholar ministers have damn good grades, but cock ups in policy making gao gao, quite a far fetch from his theory that having good grades means a higher probability to make well considered plans. Cost us millions and millions of taxpayers' money. 

Anyway, his view as an insider within the IC industry is why SG ultimately failed in this sector. We don't tolerate failures, we don't tolerate experimentation, we don't like risks, we don't like trail blazing, so don't complain when we have zero innovation. True innovation isn't risk free, this one no need to be engineering trained to know. 

 

[Mkl22]

On 3/12/2021 at 2:18 PM, Wind30 said:

I posted before somwhere already. masters fresh grad, annual around $90k. 

with experience can vary a lot. For IC design, phd with maybe 4 years experience 140k-150k/annum. These are just rough estimation, not necessary accurate.

There is a big jump in recent years, due to China pouring lots of money into IC design. 

How much is computer science master grad getting?

Why do you need PhD for ic design? Haha

[Fcw75]

10 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

What he wants is a proven track record and a proven winner, at maybe the cost of a fresh graduate out of engineering school. 😅

Many of our scholar ministers have damn good grades, but cock ups in policy making gao gao, quite a far fetch from his theory that having good grades means a higher probability to make well considered plans. Cost us millions and millions of taxpayers' money. 

Anyway, his view as an insider within the IC industry is why SG ultimately failed in this sector. We don't tolerate failures, we don't tolerate experimentation, we don't like risks, we don't like trail blazing, so don't complain when we have zero innovation. True innovation isn't risk free, this one no need to be engineering trained to know. 

 

I think if Elon Musk was born here, he will have severe depression. 

[Beehive3783]

21 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

What he wants is a proven track record and a proven winner, at maybe the cost of a fresh graduate out of engineering school. 😅

Many of our scholar ministers have damn good grades, but cock ups in policy making gao gao, quite a far fetch from his theory that having good grades means a higher probability to make well considered plans. Cost us millions and millions of taxpayers' money. 

Anyway, his view as an insider within the IC industry is why SG ultimately failed in this sector. We don't tolerate failures, we don't tolerate experimentation, we don't like risks, we don't like trail blazing, so don't complain when we have zero innovation. True innovation isn't risk free, this one no need to be engineering trained to know. 

 

From what I infer so far:

If his intentions are pure, nobody is stopping him from hiring a fresh grad with high potential to be groomed into a valued member of his team.

But no, his intentions are only about himself not willing to take the risk of hiring an engineer that may ultimately not make the cut. And this, is how he has managed to keep his own rice bowl safe, at the expense of fresh grads who may be willing to put in more effort to learn and bloom.

Being a team leader is not only about being the best. It is sometimes being willing to impart your knowledge and learn from others so that everyone learns and grows together as a team. Failure? Learn from it and take it as a team.

But nah, I don't see a true leader anywhere.

[inlinesix]

12 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

What he wants is a proven track record and a proven winner, at maybe the cost of a fresh graduate out of engineering school. 😅

Many of our scholar ministers have damn good grades, but cock ups in policy making gao gao, quite a far fetch from his theory that having good grades means a higher probability to make well considered plans. Cost us millions and millions of taxpayers' money. 

Anyway, his view as an insider within the IC industry is why SG ultimately failed in this sector. We don't tolerate failures, we don't tolerate experimentation, we don't like risks, we don't like trail blazing, so don't complain when we have zero innovation. True innovation isn't risk free, this one no need to be engineering trained to know. 

The ability to formulate policy may not be linked to good grades.  Rather, it is the ability to ask the correct question.

It is ok to cockup, pull handbrake and U-turn as long as proper due diligence (including consultation with all vested parties) has been done beforehand.

The NEW IU is a clear example of the INABILITY to ask the correct question.  That's unacceptable.

 

 

[Wind30]

23 minutes ago, Mkl22 said:

Why do you need PhD for ic design? Haha

We don't really need it. I don't have one either. But some students who Phd Thesis is directly related are very very good. 

Many of the best engineers in San Jose are phd grads. But they are really like the smartest students in the world lah... It is not easy to hire them too. They are paid a LOT

[Lethalstrike]

17 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

The ability to formulate policy may not be linked to good grades.  Rather, it is the ability to ask the correct question.

It is ok to cockup, pull handbrake and U-turn as long as proper due diligence (including consultation with all vested parties) has been done beforehand.

The NEW IU is a clear example of the INABILITY to ask the correct question.  That's unacceptable.

 

You may well be right on the money, if everyone thinks the same, so how to ask the right questions? 

1. Directors at LTA proposed and convinced Perm Sec of MoT that the New IU is good 

2. Perm Sec of MoT explain to Minister of Transport that New IU is good

3. Minister of Transport: If everyone thinks is good, it must be good right?! Chopped, stamped and approved! 

But I think it is NOT ok to cockup and do due diligence only after implementation, they are paid millions to come up with half F solutions? LTA says NEW IU was designed with feedback from motorists, I want to ask who are the idiot motorists that LTA roped in for their focus group opinions.

And not forgetting Amy Khor trying to do a hard sell for the NEW IU in parliament, only after everything was confirmed and public feedback online has been ugly 🤣

Edited March 16, 2021 by Lethalstrike

[Wind30]

43 minutes ago, Beehive3783 said:

From what I infer so far:

If his intentions are pure, nobody is stopping him from hiring a fresh grad with high potential to be groomed into a valued member of his team.

But no, his intentions are only about himself not willing to take the risk of hiring an engineer that may ultimately not make the cut. And this, is how he has managed to keep his own rice bowl safe, at the expense of fresh grads who may be willing to put in more effort to learn and bloom.

Being a team leader is not only about being the best. It is sometimes being willing to impart your knowledge and learn from others so that everyone learns and grows together as a team. Failure? Learn from it and take it as a team.

But nah, I don't see a true leader anywhere.

.... "fresh grad with high potential" ...

I am sure you meant the Jurong JC guy that applied. Sorry for being blunt, any fresh bachelors grad is useless upon joining and have to be trained. Anyone with bad grades is low potential to me. I mean if he cannot solve simple engineering problems in Uni, what makes you think he can solve those problem when I hire him????? I can interview him and ask him technical questions but it will be just a waste of my time. 

 How do you choose your high potential guy??? talking to him, can talk sky earth, anything? some feeling? or you like the look of his eyes? or anyone also ok? sigh....

My boss relies on the work done by my team to get incentives from the government which encourages the MNC to stay rooted in Singapore. The MNC hires a lot of locals in many functions. 

Err... being the best and imparting your knowledge is not mutually exclusive.... I still don't see why I should not build the best team I can in Singapore.

To me, hiring locals has the adv of continuity as he is less likely to leave. Other than that, the local guy still needs to meet a certain standard. I said like 13214 times, I want to hire locals. If I have two candidates who are similar, I will hire the local one in a heartbeat. no questions. 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Wind30

[inlinesix]

12 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

You may well be right on the money, if everyone thinks the same, so how to ask the right questions? 

1. Directors at LTA proposed and convinced Perm Sec of MoT that the New IU is good 

2. Perm Sec of MoT explain to Minister of Transport that New IU is good

3. Minister of Transport: If everyone thinks is good, it must be good right?! Chopped, stamped and approved! 

But I think it is NOT ok to cockup and do due diligence only after implementation, they are paid millions to come up with half F solutions? LTA says NEW IU was designed with feedback from motorists, I want to ask who are the idiot motorists that LTA roped in for their focus group opinions.

And not forgetting Amy Khor trying to do a hard sell for the NEW IU in parliament, only after everything was confirmed and public feedback online has been ugly 🤣

From what you described, the correct question was NOT asked.

It is done merely because the current IU has been used for 20 years (which was the original target date of the current design).

 

[Stratovarius]

2 hours ago, Albeniz said:

Mechatronic?  Quite a few ended up flying drones and repairing robotic arms.

During my uni days mechatronics were like the genius in our cohort, excelling in both mech and elec. Went to their lab and woo woo ha ha at their robots. But after grad they got nowhere to go. Alot stay in the uni and do research. 

[Mkl22]

20 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

You may well be right on the money, if everyone thinks the same, so how to ask the right questions? 

1. Directors at LTA proposed and convinced Perm Sec of MoT that the New IU is good 

2. Perm Sec of MoT explain to Minister of Transport that New IU is good

3. Minister of Transport: If everyone thinks is good, it must be good right?! Chopped, stamped and approved! 

But I think it is NOT ok to cockup and do due diligence only after implementation, they are paid millions to come up with half F solutions? LTA says NEW IU was designed with feedback from motorists, I want to ask who are the idiot motorists that LTA roped in for their focus group opinions.

And not forgetting Amy Khor trying to do a hard sell for the NEW IU in parliament, only after everything was confirmed and public feedback online has been ugly 🤣

You actually believed they got feedback? It’s ownself check owneself and owenself say it’s the best that it can be. When all that they can see is the speck in another’s eye, but fail to see a plank in their own. What can you expect. 

[Beehive3783]

23 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

.... "fresh grad with high potential" ...

I am sure you meant the Jurong JC guy that applied. Sorry for being blunt, any fresh bachelors grad is useless upon joining and have to be trained. Anyone with bad grades is low potential to me. I mean if he cannot solve simple engineering problems in Uni, what makes you think he can solve those problem when I hire him????? I can interview him and ask him technical questions but it will be just a waste of my time. 

 How do you choose your high potential guy??? talking to him, can talk sky earth, anything? some feeling? or you like the look of his eyes? or anyone also ok? sigh....

My boss relies on the work done by my team to get incentives from the government which encourages the MNC to stay rooted in Singapore. The MNC hires a lot of locals in many functions. 

Err... being the best and imparting your knowledge is not mutually exclusive.... I still don't see why I should not build the best team I can in Singapore.

To me, hiring locals has the adv of continuity as he is less likely to leave. Other than that, the local guy still needs to meet a certain standard. I said like 13214 times, I want to hire locals. If I have two candidates who are similar, I will hire the local one in a heartbeat. no questions. 

 

You can continue living in your own world, but the rest of the world who are outside the box can see clearly what's in it.

[Mkl22]

11 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

.... "fresh grad with high potential" ...

I am sure you meant the Jurong JC guy that applied. Sorry for being blunt, any fresh bachelors grad is useless upon joining and have to be trained. Anyone with bad grades is low potential to me. I mean if he cannot solve simple engineering problems in Uni, what makes you think he can solve those problem when I hire him????? I can interview him and ask him technical questions but it will be just a waste of my time. 

 How do you choose your high potential guy??? talking to him, can talk sky earth, anything? some feeling? or you like the look of his eyes? or anyone also ok? sigh....

My boss relies on the work done by my team to get incentives from the government which encourages the MNC to stay rooted in Singapore. The MNC hires a lot of locals in many functions. 

Err... being the best and imparting your knowledge is not mutually exclusive.... I still don't see why I should not build the best team I can in Singapore.

To me, hiring locals has the adv of continuity as he is less likely to leave. Other than that, the local guy still needs to meet a certain standard. I said like 13214 times, I want to hire locals. If I have two candidates who are similar, I will hire the local one in a heartbeat. no questions. 

 

For fresh grads, yeah no choice by to rely on grades and the schools he has attended. You then spend time and energy to train for him to jump ship 2 years later. Which is why I don’t bothering hiring fresh grads. I let others take the hit! Haha. Of course you pay more to hire senior ones. But at least there is a track record of accomplishments in the industry to make sure the training is much less. 

[Enye]

wah... jjc people jin cham

keep kena whacked by people from elite atas jc in this thread 

😬😑

[Lethalstrike]

13 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

From what you described, the correct question was NOT asked.

It is done merely because the current IU has been used for 20 years (which was the original target date of the current design).

 

It's okay la, as you said, they will do their due diligence later. 

So for us suckers, we will install 1st gen New IU first, then a few years later install 2nd gen improved New IU. 

As one bro here mentioned earlier, ownself checked ownself. They will give themselves a pat on their back for a job well done in making improvements to New IU. 

I cannot imagine if I go for the Tesla Model 3 as my next car, I will have to see that pile of shit New IU cluttering up the ultra minimalistic dashboard. 

But, I digress. Let's stick back to the topic on local engineering talents 😁

Edited March 16, 2021 by Lethalstrike