Mercedes Benz's Engine Downsizing Strategy

[SZ_ford]

16 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Good handbag like Hermes Birkin or Kelly retains value.

A lot of cars don't especially lower range of premium brand.

that's true

my point is people pay for brand factor but it may not always be the 'better' or more practical choice

[Watwheels]

I really do not like the small displacement TC engine. Like when you are at cruising speed say 60-80km/hr and you want to do overtaking, you put your foot down, you anticipate the gb to kick down, wait for the turbo to build up boost...all these seems like an eternity. An NA 2.0L or higher capacity engine wont have to wait this long.

In my own experience for the TC engine capacity it's ideal to have at least 2000cc or 2.0L. To wait for things to happen at least the 2.0L engine will have enough guts to propel the car forward. Or at that capacity have more exhaust to spool up the turbo faster compared to a small displacement engine. Somemore Mercs are no lightweights. I think ppl will end up with a lot of frustrations or trying to DIY down shift the gears via paddles to make the car react faster.

IMO if really must choose this brand you have to look past the entry models and look for those at least in 2.0L turbo. Not for performance but free from most frustrations when driving.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Watwheels

[Voodooman]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:17 AM, inlinesix said:

The problem with Merc is it lack hybrid cars in its current lineup.  On the other hand, it wants to go straight to EV.  Look like this downsizing suits Singapore with cheaper C and E class.

MERCEDES wan sui

EV is just much much more efficient. With Tesla Model S achieving 2.4s century sprint for around USD120k, similar to a 8L turbo charged supercar costing close to US$2m, I wonder what are the options of these high end sports car manufacturers? 

Yes, they are different creatures but the gap is too wide for anyone not to go electric soon.  

Edited May 12, 2020 by Voodooman

[Volvobrick]

33 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

EV is just much much more efficient. With Tesla Model S achieving 2.4s century sprint for around USD120k, similar to a 8L turbo charged supercar costing close to US$2m, I wonder what are the options of these high end sports car manufacturers? 

Yes, they are different creatures but the gap is too wide for anyone not to go electric soon.  

People who buy 2m cars don't buy them because they are the quickest. They buy them becos they are the most expensive or exclusive. 

Like lolex. Casio is more accurate. 

[1fast1]

3 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

I have no qualms about 2.0T AMG setup for A, B, C and even up to GLB Class, as indeed the engine have performed well and met it purpose, but anything larger, I still prefer to have a 6 cylinder configuration at least, to 'draw the line'. Maybe it is a psychology barrier in me.

IIRC, Koenigsegg Gemera is the current record holder for engine output of 2.0T (600 bhp / 600Nm), and it is a not even a 4 cylinder setup...

Yah, their S320 is a 2.0T with mild hybrid setup, but hopefully not A S280 with 1.5T

Actually BMW 730i and entry level Jaguar XJ6 also uses 2.0T engine, but I am wondering will any of them especially Mercedes, attempt to break the barrier and load flagship model with a sub 2.0 engine?

With COE (a fixed cost across engine variant) and VES (smaller engine capacity typically attract higher VES surcharge), the cost difference between a C160 & C180 is negligible and the same can be said for E180 vs E200.

I can't wait to read the review on the new GLB200 (using a 1.33T engine with mild hybrid). My butt feel with the current A200 (using same setup) is that it lack the solidness and punch of a larger engine unit, and shudder to think of it been deployed in an even larger and heavier model...

Thanks. The Gemera has a hybrid powertrain though. 

[SZ_ford]

1 hour ago, Watwheels said:

I really do not like the small displacement TC engine. Like when you are at cruising speed say 60-80km/hr and you want to do overtaking, you put your foot down, you anticipate the gb to kick down, wait for the turbo to build up boost...all these seems like an eternity. An NA 2.0L or higher capacity engine wont have to wait this long.

In my own experience for the TC engine capacity it's ideal to have at least 2000cc or 2.0L. To wait for things to happen at least the 2.0L engine will have enough guts to propel the car forward. Or at that capacity have more exhaust to spool up the turbo faster compared to a small displacement engine. Somemore Mercs are no lightweights. I think ppl will end up with a lot of frustrations or trying to DIY down shift the gears via paddles to make the car react faster.

IMO if really must choose this brand you have to look past the entry models and look for those at least in 2.0L turbo. Not for performance but free from most frustrations when driving.

i have a different experience. was driving ford mondeo 1.5L TC. Sent my car in to fix a cracked windscreen. got a 2L camry as a replacement car. 

camry immediately feel slower and less responsive. overtaking was much easier in ford

[inlinesix]

11 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

People who buy 2m cars don't buy them because they are the quickest. They buy them becos they are the most expensive or exclusive. 

Like lolex. Casio is more accurate. 

Ppl buy $2m car for investment.  Cannot register locally.

[inlinesix]

50 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

EV is just much much more efficient. With Tesla Model S achieving 2.4s century sprint for around USD120k, similar to a 8L turbo charged supercar costing close to US$2m, I wonder what are the options of these high end sports car manufacturers? 

Yes, they are different creatures but the gap is too wide for anyone not to go electric soon.  

It is definitely more efficient.

It lacks emotion.

[Voodooman]

11 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

People who buy 2m cars don't buy them because they are the quickest. They buy them becos they are the most expensive or exclusive. 

Like lolex. Casio is more accurate. 

Yes i understand and that is why i said they are different creatures.

10 years ago, to get to sub 3s, you need a super sports car with a V8 or V10 drivetrain and most people can't afford it, now you just buy a Tesla S. 

I am just wondering what is next for the I-am-fastest supercar brands when the common guy in the street can buy a car that can jiak most super cars costing 10x more. Cannot proclaim to be fastest liow. Maybe best design, most exclusive and most impractical. 😂

Just kidding, I can't afford even a Tesla S, much less the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport that can go as fast. My point is everyone has to go electric soon or lose market share. 

[Voodooman]

5 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

It is definitely more efficient.

It lacks emotion.

You mean the vibration and the rev of a V6 or V8 engine? Lol.... Okok... More than that but valid point.

Still i think ICE has a limited shelf life, at least for mass market cars.

 

[inlinesix]

5 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

You mean the vibration and the rev of a V6 or V8 engine? Lol.... Okok... More than that but valid point.

Still i think ICE has a limited shelf life, at least for mass market cars.

Electric car suits Singapore well.  A lot of ppl like problem free car.

On the other hand, ICE has a lot of shortcoming.  That's why it has character (which is the shortcoming).

[Carbon82]

12 hours ago, Watwheels said:

I really do not like the small displacement TC engine. Like when you are at cruising speed say 60-80km/hr and you want to do overtaking, you put your foot down, you anticipate the gb to kick down, wait for the turbo to build up boost...all these seems like an eternity. An NA 2.0L or higher capacity engine wont have to wait this long.

In my own experience for the TC engine capacity it's ideal to have at least 2000cc or 2.0L. To wait for things to happen at least the 2.0L engine will have enough guts to propel the car forward. Or at that capacity have more exhaust to spool up the turbo faster compared to a small displacement engine. Somemore Mercs are no lightweights. I think ppl will end up with a lot of frustrations or trying to DIY down shift the gears via paddles to make the car react faster.

IMO if really must choose this brand you have to look past the entry models and look for those at least in 2.0L turbo. Not for performance but free from most frustrations when driving.

I concur. In fact when I am behind the wheel of a VAG 1.4T powered model, ranging from VW Golf GT, Jetta, Touran, Seat Ateca, Skoda Kodiaq, etc. the drive is pretty dull. Yes the pick up is not sluggish, but that's all, totally lacking in soul when I attempt to push it harder on a straight road (not just for overtaking).

@Inlinefour @Thaiyotakamli what is your view of the new CLS260? Or are you still dreaming of a M510i?  

[Inlinefour]

7 minutes ago, Carbon82 said:

I concur. In fact when I am behind the wheel of a VAG 1.4T powered model, ranging from VW Golf GT, Jetta, Touran, Seat Ateca, Skoda Kodiaq, etc. the drive is pretty dull. Yes the pick up is not sluggish, but that's all, totally lacking in soul when I attempt to push it harder on a straight road (not just for overtaking).

@Inlinefour @Thaiyotakamli what is your view of the new CLS260? Or are you still dreaming of a M510i?  

mine special indent is M110i xDrive lah🤣🤣🤣

 

[Thaiyotakamli]

2 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

I concur. In fact when I am behind the wheel of a VAG 1.4T powered model, ranging from VW Golf GT, Jetta, Touran, Seat Ateca, Skoda Kodiaq, etc. the drive is pretty dull. Yes the pick up is not sluggish, but that's all, totally lacking in soul when I attempt to push it harder on a straight road (not just for overtaking).

@Inlinefour @Thaiyotakamli what is your view of the new CLS260? Or are you still dreaming of a M510i?  

CLS260 despite having small engine they have mild hybrid system which will eliminate the lack of power in lower rpm. If purely 1.4L or 1.5L turbo on big cars might not be sufficient

 

but again i am happy even if 1.4L turbo as its sufficient enough in sg. Hardly drive nshw

[Karoon]

Welcome to the new world.

With more companies jumping on the sustainability bandwagon, employees could be told what car they can drive to work.

Known as scope 3 emissions.

 

[Carbon82]

23 hours ago, Inlinefour said:

mine special indent is M110i xDrive lah🤣🤣🤣

That is not a reasonable challenge as there is already 114i in some part of the world.  

21 hours ago, Thaiyotakamli said:

CLS260 despite having small engine they have mild hybrid system which will eliminate the lack of power in lower rpm. If purely 1.4L or 1.5L turbo on big cars might not be sufficient

but again i am happy even if 1.4L turbo as its sufficient enough in sg. Hardly drive nshw

Power to move the car, that is for sure. But driving refinement and enjoyment I doubt.

Anyway, it would not be cheap even with a smaller engine, and at S$300K thereabout, there are a lot of choice out there.

10 hours ago, Karoon said:

Welcome to the new world.

With more companies jumping on the sustainability bandwagon, employees could be told what car they can drive to work.

Known as scope 3 emissions.

I think quite unlikely in the near future as it would become a debate on human right and ethic concerns.

Unless the company is siao on and make all employee switch to EV (banning ICE), but who is going to bear the cost of switching? Not driving may not be an option in some places due to work location and lack of public transport. 

[Sdf4786k]

I suppose for lack of a better descriptive noun for end to end, a VTEC like engine that caters to loads of low down torque and high-end performance, yet economical enough to qualify the ownership experience is lacking in today's environment.

Sure, you can have a tesla 100 but that's like only a handful of the population will be able to afford.

 

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Sdf4786k said:

I suppose for lack of a better descriptive noun for end to end, a VTEC like engine that caters to loads of low down torque and high-end performance, yet economical enough to qualify the ownership experience is lacking in today's environment.

Sure, you can have a tesla 100 but that's like only a handful of the population will be able to afford.

How economical?