Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners

[Sdf4786k]

7 hours ago, Fuelsaver said:

I can't agree on that, because when we are in their land we need to adapt.

If you in their land there are many things to adapt and learn and grow more than what skill future offers.

 

Cross the road and look out for cowdung. 

Taking taxis must be from a known source, else kanna rob or rape. Taxi arrives must take down the number by the security. So one wonders, how these people can churn out high tech from a country that has lacking in a safe workplace or infrastructure.

 

And that the reason if no CECA, no passage to Singapore with their family.

But from the survey, there are like 50% Singaporean and 50% PR and more than twice the amount of FT in the hiring place.?

So there does seem to be more of them in the workplace. So make sense for the lesser demand to adapt and adjust.

But one would argue. If all of us go for dinner and one is vegetarian and the rest eat meat. Would we ask the odd one out to adjust ?

 

 

[Victor68]

If I have to eat vegetarian every day because one of them that joined me is a vegetarian,  then I am afraid we need to eat separately or at least from separate stall.

Back to the question on citizens, PR, FT, really so difficult to count or don't have this information? I am really curious because daily I feel I am a Singaporean working in foreign country. 

[Sdf4786k]

39 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

If I have to eat vegetarian every day because one of them that joined me is a vegetarian,  then I am afraid we need to eat separately or at least from separate stall.

Back to the question on citizens, PR, FT, really so difficult to count or don't have this information? I am really curious because daily I feel I am a Singaporean working in foreign country. 

It not difficult. Its the next question that begets the larger question of counting.

Imagine this.

30 Employee apply a job and get hire under contractor OtC.

30 employee apply and gets hire under contractor IBC

30 employee apply and gets hire under contractor kuku services and work for a consultant services.

all 90 employee are then place at the bank. 

Is the bank having a headcount of 90 employee?

The answer is no as those salary is paid by the contractor and so called hired by the contractor.

BUT thats the loophole of OPEX and there is nothing you can do about it unless there is a taxation law in there. 

ANd hence , I always say, if you not able to police it, the answer is taxation. Dont need much. Just 10 dollars per employee that is over quota. 

And if breech, MOM just come in. If under declared, its tax evasion. 

No one will want to mess with that. CEO goes to jail and we know for sure, there is going to be revamp if this is introduce.

[Fuelsaver]

1 hour ago, Sdf4786k said:

If you in their land there are many things to adapt and learn and grow more than what skill future offers.

 

Cross the road and look out for cowdung. 

Taking taxis must be from a known source, else kanna rob or rape. Taxi arrives must take down the number by the security. So one wonders, how these people can churn out high tech from a country that has lacking in a safe workplace or infrastructure.

 

And that the reason if no CECA, no passage to Singapore with their family.

But from the survey, there are like 50% Singaporean and 50% PR and more than twice the amount of FT in the hiring place.?

So there does seem to be more of them in the workplace. So make sense for the lesser demand to adapt and adjust.

But one would argue. If all of us go for dinner and one is vegetarian and the rest eat meat. Would we ask the odd one out to adjust ?

 

 

This is our homeland, why must we concede. I don't think your analogy is appropriate. So you are fine if they lord over us?

[Sdf4786k]

15 minutes ago, Fuelsaver said:

This is our homeland, why must we concede. I don't think your analogy is appropriate. So you are fine if they lord over us?

If in the work place, does all the local have the same voice and come together to influence a outcome or do they shy away from such conversation vs when you speak up and there are 10 of them who start to question you on why you are the odd one out?

Thats what I am saying. Unless you have a way to change the outcome, you will be the odd one out and you be ostracize. 

Ever gone to a discussion where your counterpart try to defuse the discussion and make you seem small gas?

If you go afew times, you too will be tolerant and calm and just blend and adjust to the situation. And all too soon, it will be another disengage employee .

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sdf4786k

[Vratenza]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:57 AM, Watwheels said:

What's the point of chasing them for figures? We know statistics and graphs can be manipulated to look good. At the same time it can also be made to look bad. Bottom line it's still up to the individual to upgrade himself/herself to remain employable.

Think gahment will help protect your job? Maybe there's something they can do but it's limited. Think opposition party will be able to help? Help to remind gahment not to let in too many foreigners? Let's be realistic. This is just politics at play.

The unimaginable did happened and we all knew it. They lost votes. LoL... So when the time comes, kindly do the same. Let's just do our part. Whatever they do on tv is just wayang.

It is not the actual figures that matters.

It is the obvious massaging of data (or lack of) presented that begs the more discerning among us to ask question on what are you trying to hide just to shore up your votes? 

[Carbon82]

For total transparency, employment figures should be broken down into the following categories, nothing less, and don't need to care whether they are hired directly by company or through contractor. 

But that would be a suicide move by the ruling party, as even the hardcore supporters might flip table if they see the actual number.

• True Blue Singaporean
• New Citizen
• Permanent Resident
• Dependent Pass
• Employment Pass
• S Pass and Work Permit

I would not be surprised to see true blue Singaporean accounting for just ~50% (my personal guesstimate) of the total working population. Go figure... 

[Playtime]

24 minutes ago, Vratenza said:

It is not the actual figures that matters.

It is the obvious massaging of data (or lack of) presented that begs the more discerning among us to ask question on what are you trying to hide just to shore up your votes? 

And now they're weaponising this with pofma.

 

Used to be they go around shouting :"I got a 10inch dick ah!!!" We all know and laugh. 

Now... if you dare say :"I think you only 4 inches..." they will pofma you..

 

You MUST swallow what they say. 

[Kyrios]

Im gonna draw flak for saying this....but...Have personally met with a few arrogant and haughty folks from across the causeway who think is their goddamn right to be here...Iam surprised because we are supposed to be 'closer' and 'friendlier' since we share almost similar cultures...but no..these MY PRs expect same privileges as citizens and kpkb if they dun get the same treatment...

Do Canadians behave in the same way in US and vice versa? I feel in another country we should treat each other with respect and humility instead of always having the thinking that the host country cannot do without me (the Permanent Resident) etc etc...

And I hate to say this..again will prob kena flame but I think the distinction between citizens and PRs has just got to be upped a few notches.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Kyrios

[13177]

37 minutes ago, Kyrios said:

Im gonna draw flak for saying this....but...Have personally met with a few arrogant and haughty folks from across the causeway who think is their goddamn right to be here...Iam surprised because we are supposed to be 'closer' and 'friendlier' since we share almost similar cultures...but no..these MY PRs expect same privileges as citizens and kpkb if they dun get the same treatment...

Do Canadians behave in the same way in US and vice versa? I feel in another country we should treat each other with respect and humility instead of always having the thinking that the host country cannot do without me (the Permanent Resident) etc etc...

And I hate to say this..again will prob kena flame but I think the distinction between citizens and PRs has just got to be upped a few notches.

I think the impression i have is sg cannot do without FTs, rather than the other way round.

[Mkl22]

51 minutes ago, Kyrios said:

Im gonna draw flak for saying this....but...Have personally met with a few arrogant and haughty folks from across the causeway who think is their goddamn right to be here...Iam surprised because we are supposed to be 'closer' and 'friendlier' since we share almost similar cultures...but no..these MY PRs expect same privileges as citizens and kpkb if they dun get the same treatment...

Do Canadians behave in the same way in US and vice versa? I feel in another country we should treat each other with respect and humility instead of always having the thinking that the host country cannot do without me (the Permanent Resident) etc etc...

And I hate to say this..again will prob kena flame but I think the distinction between citizens and PRs has just got to be upped a few notches.

yes, have met some chinese malaysians who always thinks malaysia is better. which then begs the question why the heck is he working in Singapore then.

[Victor68]

3 hours ago, Sdf4786k said:

If in the work place, does all the local have the same voice and come together to influence a outcome or do they shy away from such conversation vs when you speak up and there are 10 of them who start to question you on why you are the odd one out?

Thats what I am saying. Unless you have a way to change the outcome, you will be the odd one out and you be ostracize. 

Ever gone to a discussion where your counterpart try to defuse the discussion and make you seem small gas?

If you go afew times, you too will be tolerant and calm and just blend and adjust to the situation. And all too soon, it will be another disengage employee .

 

Wow young man, you don't want me to crack my head on your mathematical question lah. We paid the best people to run our country,  if they find this difficult, I pay that salary to you and get a cut. All problems solved right? Haha

[Carbon82]

On 1/7/2020 at 4:18 AM, Wind30 said:

Honestly if u read CCS speech, it makes a lot of sense. My job for one would be gone if I cannot hire pr or foreigners. 
no local talent

I have no concern if Singapore really lack talent in the niche field and need FT to fill the gap. You notice I don't use the word void? Filling the gap while training the local to fill it in times to come. But that is not what we are seeing in the past decade at least. 1 batch of FT goes, another batch of FT come and the cycle continue...

And to add to the insult, I am also seeing not so niche functions been filled by FT, such as HR, finance, facilities management, safety, service industry, etc. etc. I am in Safety line and my personal experience with some FT safety director are that they know nuts about our local safety requirement. All they do is just to preach about people management, safety vision, etc. while ignoring what are required to be done as according to local laws. Is that doing any good for Singapore?

You can say I am bias but FT has become a cheat (and cheap) pill to lower the operating cost in Singapore. High land cost / rental, transport cost, multiple taxes, etc. are the real culprits but ... ...

[13177]

You are right lo, can find so many FT filled up position in puchasing, sales, accounts and HR. I dont know if all these position no local want to do or cannot find any local want to do that we cannot do without using FTs?

[Kusje]

6 hours ago, Sdf4786k said:

Taking taxis must be from a known source, else kanna rob or rape. Taxi arrives must take down the number by the security. So one wonders, how these people can churn out high tech from a country that has lacking in a safe workplace or infrastructure.

 

 

My india team in bangalore has company provided transport.

[Kusje]

20 minutes ago, 13177 said:

You are right lo, can find so many FT filled up position in puchasing, sales, accounts and HR. I dont know if all these position no local want to do or cannot find any local want to do that we cannot do without using FTs?

It is about money. Can't find at that price point.

Just like when people say no singaporeans want to work as cleaner or waiters.

[Playtime]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

I have no concern if Singapore really lack talent in the niche field and need FT to fill the gap. You notice I don't use the word void? Filling the gap while training the local to fill it in times to come. But that is not what we are seeing in the past decade at least. 1 batch of FT goes, another batch of FT come and the cycle continue...

And to add to the insult, I am also seeing not so niche functions been filled by FT, such as HR, finance, facilities management, safety, service industry, etc. etc. I am in Safety line and my personal experience with some FT safety director are that they know nuts about our local safety requirement. All they do is just to preach about people management, safety vision, etc. while ignoring what are required to be done as according to local laws. Is that doing any good for Singapore?

You can say I am bias but FT has become a cheat (and cheap) pill to lower the operating cost in Singapore. High land cost / rental, transport cost, multiple taxes, etc. are the real culprits but ... ...

Don't forget... 238milion a year for ft scholarship... already a 50% drop from past years. The amount is really no words describe..

Still dare to kpkb when questioned. 

Why say local no talent,  why say local no need degree,  ... when ft are flooding in plus funded by the very tax payers that will get pofma fir daring to question.  👹

[Kyrios]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

I have no concern if Singapore really lack talent in the niche field and need FT to fill the gap. You notice I don't use the word void? Filling the gap while training the local to fill it in times to come. But that is not what we are seeing in the past decade at least. 1 batch of FT goes, another batch of FT come and the cycle continue...

And to add to the insult, I am also seeing not so niche functions been filled by FT, such as HR, finance, facilities management, safety, service industry, etc. etc. I am in Safety line and my personal experience with some FT safety director are that they know nuts about our local safety requirement. All they do is just to preach about people management, safety vision, etc. while ignoring what are required to be done as according to local laws. Is that doing any good for Singapore?

You can say I am bias but FT has become a cheat (and cheap) pill to lower the operating cost in Singapore. High land cost / rental, transport cost, multiple taxes, etc. are the real culprits but ... ...

I think CCS is saying something like to create one (1) job for a true blue..you need to employ 99 other FTs so that the company wont leave Singapore for other greener pastures...so is a necessary evil..otherwise MNCs will just leave and none of us will be employed..something lidat lah..