Hong Kong protesters demonstrate against extradition bill

[Civic101]

  On 11/10/2019 at 12:46 AM, PSP415 said:

Maybe if he wasn't there, or not born yet or not be pushed over as some allegations, he could have become a dad in a few years time.

Haiz

Hopefully there are none who secretly harbour thoughts of being superman or wonder woman flying like a plane or a bird.

Youth is the age of invincibility and unfortunately folly as well.

They will blame the HKPF and govt for his death and everything not going their way. 

Your guess is as good as mine if the fall from high student could be saved had the ambulance reached him earlier instead of being blocked by those idiots who barricaded the roads. That student may have died instantly for all we know or dun know.

Just yada-ing.

Have a good and peaceful Sunday. 

Safe ride 

Cheers 

 

 

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They said police prevented the ambulance from reaching the fallen guy earlier!

[Philipkee]

  On 11/10/2019 at 1:05 AM, Ash2017 said:

just how sure you are that if police had taken tougher measures in june/july, the situation would not be so out of control

it could had made the situation worse

 

 

 

following your trend of rational, if there was no violent protest, the police dont even need to react.

 

peaceful protest had always been peaceful 

 

 

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Iirc previous protests that were peaceful were generally left alone and things remained peaceful.  

This violent protesting is kind of unprecedented at least since 1997.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5606212/hong-kong-history-mass-demonstrations-protest/%3famp=true

Maybe not complete info but Hong Kong has had a history of protests since 1997 that ended relatively peacefully.   Relative to now.

So by extension if the protests were peaceful, the police will leave it alone relatively.  But the problem is that the protests are not peaceful  but the same tactics are used until it's too late now.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Philipkee

[Philipkee]

  On 11/9/2019 at 6:14 AM, Atonchia said:

How fall down can die? 

Fell from height? 

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  On 11/9/2019 at 7:16 AM, PSP415 said:

It was a high fall...per article below:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-protests-24th-weekend-student-death-alex-chow-12078278

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Another point is how the person fall.  If the person jumped intending to land safely, might be different.   I ever jumped from a wall 2 metre high to the road in kalimantan (cos I was lost and I needed to get to the main road). I landed on my feet, knees not locked so bent down, fell forward, arms outstretched but elbows not locked..... and I am 40 years old overweight.  No injuries.

My point is it depends on how the guy fell.  I believe he was caught off guard and landed in the wrong position.  Like if I had fallen down that two metres I think I wont be here posting also.

Going from the height the guy fell, being prepared might make a difference.  Not in whether or not there are serious injuries.  That is more of less definite.  But whether or not it was fatal.

Cos according to reports he did survive the fall, but succumbed to injuries later.  So if he had been prepared, break the fall, it might have made the difference between life and death.

[Ash2017]

  On 11/10/2019 at 1:29 AM, Philipkee said:

Iirc previous protests that were peaceful were generally left alone and things remained peaceful.  

This violent protesting is kind of unprecedented at least since 1997.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5606212/hong-kong-history-mass-demonstrations-protest/%3famp=true

Maybe not complete info but Hong Kong has had a history of protests since 1997 that ended relatively peacefully.   Relative to now.

So by extension if the protests were peaceful, the police will leave it alone relatively.  But the problem is that the protests are not peaceful  but the same tactics are used until it's too late now.

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precisely, hence why the need to blame the police

hindsight comments make everyone a genius

issue like this is complex and not like deciding what to wear today

 

with regards to why or how the decision by the police NOT use brut force initially

 

from past history, Occupied Central, the movement died a natural death despite a few violent incident

every year citizens celebrate the courage of those killed or injuried in Tiananmen.

 

With a backdrop like this, would anybody in the right mind, would use brutal force at the onset, in the hope to stop the protest.

 

Philip, this is my last reply to you on this issue.

[PSP415]

  On 11/10/2019 at 1:26 AM, Civic101 said:

They said police prevented the ambulance from reaching the fallen guy earlier!

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Who are the "they"? Let me guess, the protesters? 

I remembered a 70 years old granny who cleared barricades n bricks because she desired to let bus drivers needing to go home to eat, rest and be with their families. 

That tells me barricades and bricks all over the roads have the ability to prevent vehicles thru. Who put them there on the roads? Police or protesters?

So many allegations trying to become facts, from every sides. No one taking blame, all pushed to others. All angels and brave like cowards.

Half truths, falsehoods aplenty machiam stirring shxt to spread over themselves to look good.😅

As a bro shared, one can pick and choose the side of the stories to back up what one wants to believe, on the internet.

Guaranteed to make everyone happy with support for own views.😂 

Yada-ing from a clueless foreigner. 

Have a great and peaceful weekend.

Safe ride 

Cheers 

[PSP415]

  On 11/10/2019 at 1:51 AM, Philipkee said:

 

Another point is how the person fall.  If the person jumped intending to land safely, might be different.   I ever jumped from a wall 2 metre high to the road in kalimantan (cos I was lost and I needed to get to the main road). I landed on my feet, knees not locked so bent down, fell forward, arms outstretched but elbows not locked..... and I am 40 years old overweight.  No injuries.

My point is it depends on how the guy fell.  I believe he was caught off guard and landed in the wrong position.  Like if I had fallen down that two metres I think I wont be here posting also.

Going from the height the guy fell, being prepared might make a difference.  Not in whether or not there are serious injuries.  That is more of less definite.  But whether or not it was fatal.

Cos according to reports he did survive the fall, but succumbed to injuries later.  So if he had been prepared, break the fall, it might have made the difference between life and death.

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Frankly Philip, the truth is out there somewhere but like X files, must go on site to look for it. Sources from internet unless verified and not allegations taking on clothes of truth, we may not know it all.

Of course we are curious and kaypo to know how and why he fell. His family will be the ones who will demand the truth and rightfully so. I only hope they get it so there is a closure for them.

But under such circumstances, high emotions and desire to get to the bottom of that high fall, they are vulnerable and can easily clutch at straws of half truth and falsehoods to be further exploited by hidden hands.

Haiz.

Sometimes, the truth may not be so welcomed too.

Still yada-ing from a clueless foreigner. 

Have a pleasant weekend.

Safe ride

Cheers 

 

 

[Philipkee]

  On 11/10/2019 at 1:59 AM, Ash2017 said:

precisely, hence why the need to blame the police

hindsight comments make everyone a genius

issue like this is complex and not like deciding what to wear today

 

with regards to why or how the decision by the police NOT use brut force initially

 

from past history, Occupied Central, the movement died a natural death despite a few violent incident

every year citizens celebrate the courage of those killed or injuried in Tiananmen.

 

With a backdrop like this, would anybody in the right mind, would use brutal force at the onset, in the hope to stop the protest.

 

Philip, this is my last reply to you on this issue.

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Problem is someone up there dont realise that this is not the usual protest and demonstration that they are used to.

Correct me if I am wrong (but maybe you wont reply), the storming of Legco building should have been a warning sign already that something is not right cos its unprecedented not only in violence but where the audacity of attacking where they attacked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3016844/hong-kong-police-clear-protesters-occupying-legislature

Ok.  Peace.  Just yada ing.  

Edited November 10, 2019 by Philipkee

[inlinesix]

Rem this guy:

He jump over the wall to post video

[Thaiyotakamli]

  On 11/10/2019 at 1:26 AM, Civic101 said:

They said police prevented the ambulance from reaching the fallen guy earlier!

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They even claim 4 police raped a girl. How malicious is that

[inlinesix]

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3037090/hong-kong-police-and-paramedics-turn-each-other-anti

HKPF and fire department clash again.

2nd time in a week.

[Vratenza]

  On 11/10/2019 at 1:51 AM, Philipkee said:

 

Another point is how the person fall.  If the person jumped intending to land safely, might be different.   I ever jumped from a wall 2 metre high to the road in kalimantan (cos I was lost and I needed to get to the main road). I landed on my feet, knees not locked so bent down, fell forward, arms outstretched but elbows not locked..... and I am 40 years old overweight.  No injuries.

My point is it depends on how the guy fell.  I believe he was caught off guard and landed in the wrong position.  Like if I had fallen down that two metres I think I wont be here posting also.

Going from the height the guy fell, being prepared might make a difference.  Not in whether or not there are serious injuries.  That is more of less definite.  But whether or not it was fatal.

Cos according to reports he did survive the fall, but succumbed to injuries later.  So if he had been prepared, break the fall, it might have made the difference between life and death.

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The difference is:

You jumped. He fell. 

[Philipkee]

  On 11/10/2019 at 7:33 AM, Davidtch said:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3037090/hong-kong-police-and-paramedics-turn-each-other-anti

HKPF and fire department clash again.

2nd time in a week.

Expand  

I am starting to feel that this is a sign that there is going to be a breakdown in the discipline of the uniformed services in Hong Kong.   Prolonged stress in and out of work, thankless jobs and constant abuse with no end in sight, it might cause a breakdown eventually.

An example would be vietnam war.  When it all started, everything was fine.  As it prolonged casualties mounted and no support from politicians AND no end in sight, the US soldiers started committing atrocities or dragging their officers.  Eventually the US had to withdraw.

I hope the same thing wont happen in Hong Kong.  Then it will truly become lawless.  I dont predict it will happen soon.  Not yet anyway.  But once there are reports (official ones) of mass resignations of police officers or police officers who simply refuse to obey orders, anything can happen.

[Jman888]

  On 11/10/2019 at 8:50 AM, Philipkee said:

I am starting to feel that this is a sign that there is going to be a breakdown in the discipline of the uniformed services in Hong Kong.   Prolonged stress in and out of work, thankless jobs and constant abuse with no end in sight, it might cause a breakdown eventually.

An example would be vietnam war.  When it all started, everything was fine.  As it prolonged casualties mounted and no support from politicians AND no end in sight, the US soldiers started committing atrocities or dragging their officers.  Eventually the US had to withdraw.

I hope the same thing wont happen in Hong Kong.  Then it will truly become lawless.  I dont predict it will happen soon.  Not yet anyway.  But once there are reports (official ones) of mass resignations of police officers or police officers who simply refuse to obey orders, anything can happen.

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that was the agenda of the people who are behind started the protest since July, let the people to distrust each other like the cultural revolution, didn't expect it takes so long to get to this stage.

[PSP415]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-protests-shopping-malls-strike-12080004

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/mall-protests-expected-in-hong-kong-a-day-after-peaceful-memorial-rally

There, these days, shopping in HK is definitely not we are used to.

Haiz

Edited November 10, 2019 by PSP415

[inlinesix]

  On 11/10/2019 at 8:50 AM, Philipkee said:

I am starting to feel that this is a sign that there is going to be a breakdown in the discipline of the uniformed services in Hong Kong.   Prolonged stress in and out of work, thankless jobs and constant abuse with no end in sight, it might cause a breakdown eventually.

An example would be vietnam war.  When it all started, everything was fine.  As it prolonged casualties mounted and no support from politicians AND no end in sight, the US soldiers started committing atrocities or dragging their officers.  Eventually the US had to withdraw.

I hope the same thing wont happen in Hong Kong.  Then it will truly become lawless.  I dont predict it will happen soon.  Not yet anyway.  But once there are reports (official ones) of mass resignations of police officers or police officers who simply refuse to obey orders, anything can happen.

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It could be deeper than what you said.

Fire equipment was damaged by tear gas canister. Once fire equipment is damaged, it is difficult to handover to the next shift. Usually there is no standby equipment.

A lot of times, paramedics were stopped/delayed from treatment of Injured. As medical personnel, you will understand better than me how it felt. Unless the medical personnel is unprofessional.

HK is not lawless. There are 2 parts to what you said, aka law & order.

Law is to be upheld by judicial system (aka Justice dept and Court).

Order is to be upheld by legal enforcer.

Despite what I mentioned above, ppl are blatantly going to the street to protest.

There is only 1 solution, negotiate your way out of this mess.

[inlinesix]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:01 AM, Jman888 said:

that was the agenda of the people who are behind started the protest since July, let the people to distrust each other like the cultural revolution, didn't expect it takes so long to get to this stage.

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Cultural revolution is the most misuse term now.

Cultural revolution was started by Mao (in power) against 劉少奇(challenger). That’s why ppl need to read little book.

In fact, nowadays China emphasizes the correct political indoctrination at University. This is 1 of the reason why Lee Kar Shing was sidelined in Shantou University. Shantou University was partially sponsored by Lee Kar Shing. Everyone in Uni needs to learn 習語錄。

If indeed this is cultural revolution, it means 習(in power) against challenger (???).

[Philipkee]

  On 11/10/2019 at 11:23 AM, Davidtch said:

 

Despite what I mentioned above, ppl are blatantly going to the street to protest.

There is only 1 solution, negotiate your way out of this mess.

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I wrote in another forum.  There is one other possibility and it's a worrying one. 

It is that the rioters are now addicted to rioting.  Cos maybe it gives them a sense of power, or it's fun.  So it's not longer because they want to take over hongkong or fight china.  Those are excuses.  They riot because it is a fun thing to do. 

If my thinking is correct, negotiating is going to fail.  Cos there is no leader.  They may have had one in the beginning but things have changed.  The rioters are now rioting purely for the fun or power rush or adrenaline rush.  In other words, riot for the sake of rioting.  

And that is the more scary thought now.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Philipkee

[inlinesix]

  On 11/10/2019 at 12:35 PM, Philipkee said:

I wrote in another forum.  There is one other possibility and it's a worrying one. 

It is that the rioters are now addicted to rioting.  Cos maybe it gives them a sense of power, or it's fun.  So it's not longer because they want to take over hongkong or fight china.  Those are excuses.  They riot because it is a fun thing to do. 

If my thinking is correct, negotiating is going to fail.  Cos there is no leader and the rioters are rioting purely for the fun or power rush or adrenaline rush.  In other words, riot for the sake of rioting.

And that is the more scary thought now.

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It’s never about taking over HK.

In SG, 忍沒可忍，還需再忍。This is the current situation with CECA and PMD.

In HK, 忍沒可忍，爆煲。This is what’s happening in HK.

I can’t deny the situation you mentioned.

If 段崇智made his students like to him in a townhall meeting, why can’t CE replicates it?