"24 Hour Security" ? What Do You Expect?

[5kylark]

What are your expectations regarding such security?

 

To address "24 Hour Security" stated in adverts by agents of developments, it would be for the agent to qualify such a stated feature per 'industry' standards?

 

I would expect that apart from 24 hour guards performing registration, patrolling and clocking/checking of locks, etc. and looking out for suspicious activities, it is complimented with CCTVs covering the entry/exit for vehicles and people.

 

In the absence of guards on 24 hours, if total reliance is on the CCTVs only, then it has to be demonstrated that the CCTVs do work and are supported with details on the policy and procedures with regard to the management of the footage.  There has to be monthly tests, etc. by an accredited security company and access to the hard disk and footage has to be controlled and documented.  when queried how non criminal cases are handled, they answer cannot be ambiguous. 

 

 

How about you?  What do you expect?  What are your minimum standards?

[Alpha78]

To address "24 Hour Security" stated in adverts by agents of developments, it would be for the agent to qualify such a stated feature per 'industry' standards?

 

I would expect that apart from 24 hour guards performing registration, patrolling and clocking/checking of locks, etc. and looking out for suspicious activities, it is complimented with CCTVs covering the entry/exit for vehicles and people.

 

In the absence of guards on 24 hours, if total reliance is on the CCTVs only, then it has to be demonstrated that the CCTVs do work and are supported with details on the policy and procedures with regard to the management of the footage.  There has to be monthly tests, etc. by an accredited security company and access to the hard disk and footage has to be controlled and documented.  when queried how non criminal cases are handled, they answer cannot be ambiguous. 

 

 

How about you?  What do you expect?  What are your minimum standards?

 

Agent's words = advertisement

 

However, they are supposed to only tell you facts. If they can sell/rent you a property because someone related to LKY stays there, I'll bet my last dollar they will tell that to you. But what's the value of that statement? Nil, zilch, nada.

 

Like you said, 24 hour security is to register visitors, regulate residents' behaviour, patrolling etc. Does it guarantee anything? No.

 

Most security guards, if they are more competent, would have been deployed in malls and office buildings, air-conditioned environment, easier audience to deal with. Working in a condo, with residents acting like their boss and treating them like low-life, and with stingy owners who refuse to approve any increase in maintenance fees, how much budget do you think they have to employ top notch security guards?

 

Reliance on CCTV, again it's for deterrence. There's no law to enforce that the cameras must be in working condition all the time. And same point on the stingy owners who refuse to approve increase in maintenance fees, when it comes to safety-related maintenance vs deterrence related equipment upkeep, which one is of higher priority?

[Victor68]

May I just add in to this.

 

24 hours security is just a general term to say they have security officers on duty 24-hour but that does not mean they are superman. Their presence is a deterrent. I don't think this is TS main concerns.

 

He probably has parked in the car park and experienced vandalism and requested for CCTV footage so that he could go after the culprit and encountered resistance.

 

He must understand MCST should not release CCTV to individual that would cause civil disputes. There is also privacy issues. What he need to do is to make a police report. If it is criminal case, police will request for the footage. However, if this is a civil case, then I am afraid, TS has to go for civil suit and let his lawyer handle this if we wish to pursue. 

[RogerNg_185295]

May I just add in to this.

 

24 hours security is just a general term to say they have security officers on duty 24-hour but that does not mean they are superman. Their presence is a deterrent. I don't think this is TS main concerns.

 

He probably has parked in the car park and experienced vandalism and requested for CCTV footage so that he could go after the culprit and encountered resistance.

 

He must understand MCST should not release CCTV to individual that would cause civil disputes. There is also privacy issues. What he need to do is to make a police report. If it is criminal case, police will request for the footage. However, if this is a civil case, then I am afraid, TS has to go for civil suit and let his lawyer handle this if we wish to pursue.

Most probably he does not want to spend money on lawyers. That's why he keep on asking what is 24hr security. Most probably he is feeling a sense of insecurity. It's getting a bit stale as he keeps harping on the same thing Edited March 14, 2019 by RogerNg_185295

[Pocy]

May I just add in to this.

 

24 hours security is just a general term to say they have security officers on duty 24-hour but that does not mean they are superman. Their presence is a deterrent. I don't think this is TS main concerns.

 

He probably has parked in the car park and experienced vandalism and requested for CCTV footage so that he could go after the culprit and encountered resistance.

 

He must understand MCST should not release CCTV to individual that would cause civil disputes. There is also privacy issues. What he need to do is to make a police report. If it is criminal case, police will request for the footage. However, if this is a civil case, then I am afraid, TS has to go for civil suit and let his lawyer handle this if we wish to pursue.

I share your suspicions

[Moniq]

Those who frequent, looking to buy, rent, live or stay in private apartments or condos, what do you expect?

 

What is "24 Hour Security".

 

Got number to call in case of emergency and help endeavours to arrive within 15 mins considered?

 

Having as many CCTVs as units yet no known policy, procedures and management known? When requests made, response is only for alleged criminal acts?

 

Is the phrase too loosely defined that agents may wantonly use to attract viewing?

 

In this time and age, in Singapore, with managing agent and cleaning staff on site, are security guards needed?

 

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Hi TS,

 

24 Hour Security is very vague. The requirement to fulfill this criteria would be 1 or more working CCTVs or 1 or more Security guard working at any point of time.

Now comes to expectation. Are you staying in High SES private or Low SES private? The level of security also differs. You may get from the basic from Gated Entry to having Security Guards at Lift Lobby opening door and greet you.

 

Police may request to view CCTV recordings if it involves criminal act. Others including residents are not.

 

Do you ask a farmer to repair your vehicle? This should answer your last question. Living in Singapore you don't need security guards, but it is a want.

 

Cheers.

[5kylark]

Hi TS,

 

24 Hour Security is very vague. The requirement to fulfill this criteria would be 1 or more working CCTVs or 1 or more Security guard working at any point of time.

Now comes to expectation. Are you staying in High SES private or Low SES private? The level of security also differs. You may get from the basic from Gated Entry to having Security Guards at Lift Lobby opening door and greet you.

 

Police may request to view CCTV recordings if it involves criminal act. Others including residents are not.

 

Do you ask a farmer to repair your vehicle? This should answer your last question. Living in Singapore you don't need security guards, but it is a want.

 

Cheers.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I understand that you take it to mean at least 1 CCTV OR 1 guard.  Is that the general consensus?

 

Who owns the CCTV footage in a MCST based on LTSA and BMSMA?  Whilst police deal with criminal cases, what about non criminal cases?  Who is able to request and rely on the footage?

 

Based on PDPA, does any owner then have the right to request for CCTV footage in a low SES condo with "24 Hour Security"?  Police do not deal with all cases of mischief to vehicles right?

[5kylark]

And we have the Virgin Active story of CCTV in a location some members were not comfortable with.

 

So... if CCTV = Security? Why some members complain?

 

 

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[5kylark]

May I just add in to this.

 

24 hours security is just a general term to say they have security officers on duty 24-hour but that does not mean they are superman. Their presence is a deterrent. I don't think this is TS main concerns.

 

He probably has parked in the car park and experienced vandalism and requested for CCTV footage so that he could go after the culprit and encountered resistance.

 

He must understand MCST should not release CCTV to individual that would cause civil disputes. There is also privacy issues. What he need to do is to make a police report. If it is criminal case, police will request for the footage. However, if this is a civil case, then I am afraid, TS has to go for civil suit and let his lawyer handle this if we wish to pursue. 

 

the truth is yes, I encountered mischief and vandalism where there are many CCTVs installed using the MCST funds.

 

but, when I asked for footage in the 1st instance, the CCTV was not functioning.

 

In the 2nd instance, before I could decide if I wanted to pursue the case viewing the footage first, I met with resistance (even as an owner) to the footage and was forced to lodge a police report.

 

even the cleaner could enter the CCTV room yet an owner met resistance?!?!?!?!  and even after a police report was lodged, I was denied any opportunity to review any footage and had to BEG the SPF IO to 'help' me.  She did 'help' by reviewing some unknown footage given to her which I have no idea what was given to her.

 

What that IO could tell me was 'nothing could be seen'.

 

And through my own sources, I found out that the footage no longer had date/time stamp displayed.  So what footage did the SPF IO look through?

 

Then I ask for clarity on the CCTV policy and procedures and receive ZERO response.  I asked about access and retention policies and guess the response.

 

Can you folks who view this thread appreciate that there are managing agents who smoke their way in responding to owners' queries?

 

and there was a 3rd instance but I shall not elaborate.

[5kylark]

Most probably he does not want to spend money on lawyers. That's why he keep on asking what is 24hr security. Most probably he is feeling a sense of insecurity. It's getting a bit stale as he keeps harping on the same thing

 

on the contrary, money was spent

[Victor68]

the truth is yes, I encountered mischief and vandalism where there are many CCTVs installed using the MCST funds.

 

but, when I asked for footage in the 1st instance, the CCTV was not functioning.

 

In the 2nd instance, before I could decide if I wanted to pursue the case viewing the footage first, I met with resistance (even as an owner) to the footage and was forced to lodge a police report.

 

even the cleaner could enter the CCTV room yet an owner met resistance?!?!?!?! and even after a police report was lodged, I was denied any opportunity to review any footage and had to BEG the SPF IO to 'help' me. She did 'help' by reviewing some unknown footage given to her which I have no idea what was given to her.

 

What that IO could tell me was 'nothing could be seen'.

 

And through my own sources, I found out that the footage no longer had date/time stamp displayed. So what footage did the SPF IO look through?

 

Then I ask for clarity on the CCTV policy and procedures and receive ZERO response. I asked about access and retention policies and guess the response.

 

Can you folks who view this thread appreciate that there are managing agents who smoke their way in responding to owners' queries?

 

and there was a 3rd instance but I shall not elaborate.

Many Managing Agents are not well equipped with good understanding of the law and therefore didn't provide their site staff with proper training and support. Their role basic is just labour supplier to gain the monthly fee. This is something BCA should address and ensure all are licenced and received basic training. Although we have some very basic level of training for security now, it is far from functional needs.

[5kylark]

Many Managing Agents are not well equipped with good understanding of the law and therefore didn't provide their site staff with proper training and support. Their role basic is just labour supplier to gain the monthly fee. This is something BCA should address and ensure all are licenced and received basic training. Although we have some very basic level of training for security now, it is far from functional needs.

You are right that especially for residential MAs, the staff are less professional and even amateur in performing their duties.

 

BCA, STB, LTSA and BMSMA will be challenged as more citizens move into MCSTs, get sub quality MAs which SPF can do little.

 

Who realises that State Courts has a new section for MCST matters?

 

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[PSP415]

You are right that especially for residential MAs, the staff are less professional and even amateur in performing their duties.

 

BCA, STB, LTSA and BMSMA will be challenged as more citizens move into MCSTs, get sub quality MAs which SPF can do little.

 

Who realises that State Courts has a new section for MCST matters?

 

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I have some questions based on your sharing:

 

1. CCTV not working

Is this true? When and why did it stop functioning? Or it was meant to be a dummy as a form of deterent?

 

2. SP IO CCTV footage

If there was nothing to be seen, could be a "false" footage given since no date or time stamp. You did not get a chance to view it, just based on the comment from the IO?

 

3. No neighbour's cars around that you could slip or place a note on windscreen to ask for help to check if their cam captured anything on estimated date/time? Yes, there is a possibility the culprit could be one of them...i am hoping you are not a troublesome neighbour/resident, known to be difficult or a "entitled" mentality. In other words, not popular.

[Ct3833]

Remind me of a guy by nick of simi-ccb or something like that just not too long ago.

[Cephas]

I think 24 hours security means security personnel work 2 shifts of 12 hours each and/or with security cameras turned on 24 hours.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Cephas

[heatwave]

It sounds interesting. In our office we also installed new security system from one of the best cctv companies in Calgary, AB, Canada. Works perfect. Their specialists work with world class security systems for commercial and residential properties.

[5kylark]

I think the MINIMUM if the phrase "24 Hour Security" is that should a need arise, within 3 mins, someone is able to either be at the scene or at least call 999 who try to be there within 15 minutes.

 

And SPF should look into MCSTs who regularly activate 999 calls and manage such waste of resources better.

 

Many smaller MCSTs do not have on site staff and having a CCTV that may or may not be recording and is not monitored 'live' based on current technological availability does not constitute "24 Hour Security".

 

Unless proven that the system in place can address 80% of the 100 scenarios which SPF specified in the Security Handbook and Guidelines, "24 Hour Security" cannot be used.

 

It is like accreditation of the security services and necessary to upgrade the security industry.

 

 

 

 

 

[Victor68]

I think the MINIMUM if the phrase "24 Hour Security" is that should a need arise, within 3 mins, someone is able to either be at the scene or at least call 999 who try to be there within 15 minutes.

 

And SPF should look into MCSTs who regularly activate 999 calls and manage such waste of resources better.

 

Many smaller MCSTs do not have on site staff and having a CCTV that may or may not be recording and is not monitored 'live' based on current technological availability does not constitute "24 Hour Security".

 

Unless proven that the system in place can address 80% of the 100 scenarios which SPF specified in the Security Handbook and Guidelines, "24 Hour Security" cannot be used.

 

It is like accreditation of the security services and necessary to upgrade the security industry.

Wow, you have very high hope bro. 1st there is a terrible shortage of security personnel in Sg. 2nd whatever you have now are poorly trained or doing this job because no choice. 3rd hor put CCTV also got complain of privacy,  don't put also complain.  4th hor nobody check working or not and when incident happen then find out actually long mati liao.

 

Majority of current security at the main gate is just to open and close barriers lah. Whoever walks or drive in, what can they do? Just 'register ' and let them in lor. When you check the register, maybe got LKY also. Wait till we are ready to pay decent salary for security like our SPF, then we can see some standard.