Progress Singapore Party by Tan Cheng Bock

[daftTrue]

Go read the book by Ms Teo Soh Lung before you made such sweeping statement about midnight arrest , torture....blah blah blah.

 

Have to correct you and open up your eyes to a more balanced viewpoint. Be more aware of what was happening around the region and world before you jump to conclusions.

 

Teo was caught in the wrong time and wrong place during late 80s Marxist Conspiracy. In the context of the times, China and USSR were still violently communist.

 

LKY could not afford for the western MNCs to be turned away by any sniff of a marxist overthrow. And that was what Tan Wah Piow was suggesting to his puppet Vincent Cheng. They were suggesting violent overthrow of govt. You support that?

 

Tan Wah Piow easy to point finger from comfort of London, but in developing singapore with low wages and hardly any national reserves in 1987, and just coming out of the recession of 1986, it was stupid and irrational and dangerous. Why should citizens bring violence into the streets and reject peaceful harmony for TWP's mischief?

 

Don't blindly support notions and fakenews that pap tortures innocent citizens for no rhyme or reason. You play into the West's stereotypes of the corrupt and dictatorial asian politician.

[Icedbs]

Managing a country is a massive task and as it impacts millions of lives.  Therefore it is imperative that the most capable and credible helms the jobs.  Now, such talent are few, and they command very high renumeration in their industry.  If we are to pay the people who run the country lower than what they can get, how many will want to sacrifice their worth, for the sake of serving the people ?  They have personal aspiration like any others.  Say if you are earning $5mil yearly, will you want to serve and receive $500k ?  No, in the end you either get people who are less capable on the job, or people who wants the renumeration as it is more than what they are getting. 

 

Sure, for much lesser salary, many man on the street will volunteer, but are they the best man for the job ?  To get the best candidate, he has to be compensated fairly to attract them, not to mention having to sacrifice their privacy.  To say that public servants should serve out of the heart is idealistic.

 

True that Singapore is a small dot, but lets look at the past achievement and then judge how this million dollar salaried system has fared. Look at South Korea, another first world economy, their presidents were not paid as high, and Malaysia too.  Their leaders have plundered billions of dollars, isn't that worst ?  A billion is a thousand million and can pay a $2mil yearly salaried leader for 500 years.  Not to forget that corruption propagates down the system, morphing into a corruption culture like cancer.  Wouldn't a meritocracy system that pays market rate be better value in the long run ?  I rest my case.

 

I dun disagree with you on paying right for the right people.

 

My only issue is, after paying millions in salary,where is the accountability?

[Datsun366]

Who is the accountant now?

Account to who?

A/C payee who?

You?

The worker here solely because of the exchange rate?

 

Or for those not big not small rich people?

 

Who?

 

You remeber yewheng posted picture of boxes and tall and short people watching the same competition.

[Weez911]

Wa IB having a party here.

[Spurman]

I cant believe it that a forummer thinks citizens think pap goes around arresting and jailing ppl in the middle of the night..

 

Digging out 30yrs ago rumours n trying to debunk it now? Do u tink citizens care about this?

 

Do u really tink citizens r unhappy that many ministars get paid too highly?

 

They are unhappy becoZ they feel the ministera have not done well enough to justify those high salaries.

 

Layman kpi.

Mrt becoming world class again. Like taipei metro. Hor say. The transport minster i would say is deserving of his high pay.

 

The culture created by the govt unfortunately advocates depressing salaries or depressing "value".

 

Budget say for paying commoners/vendors the junior officers r much lesser than the man sitting at the top. Then mistakes happens. Train breakdown.

 

Can i say becoz those guys r paid at a ratio of 100k vs 2000k. So "lowly paid" thus i put in just 5percent effort lar.

[Fcw75]

Wa IB having a party here.

 

Yah man, FB not enough...must come here for some fun. 

[Chongster]

I cant believe it that a forummer thinks citizens think pap goes around arresting and jailing ppl in the middle of the night..

 

Digging out 30yrs ago rumours n trying to debunk it now? Do u tink citizens care about this?

 

Do u really tink citizens r unhappy that many ministars get paid too highly?

 

They are unhappy becoZ they feel the ministera have not done well enough to justify those high salaries.

 

Layman kpi.

Mrt becoming world class again. Like taipei metro. Hor say. The transport minster i would say is deserving of his high pay.

 

The culture created by the govt unfortunately advocates depressing salaries or depressing "value".

 

Budget say for paying commoners/vendors the junior officers r much lesser than the man sitting at the top. Then mistakes happens. Train breakdown.

 

Can i say becoz those guys r paid at a ratio of 100k vs 2000k. So "lowly paid" thus i put in just 5percent effort lar.

not sure i understand what you are talking about, but train breakdowns were largely because (1) train system couldn't deal with the load from uncontrolled immigration, (2) previous CEO was a marketing person and did not prioritise maintenance.  

 

in any case SG civil service and stat board, govt linked jobs are not considered badly paid at all levels.  and there is more job security than private sector.  so, yeah, not quite sure what you are talking about.

[Victor68]

The hardest thing about being a minister in singapore is that it is a thankless job. The anti-pap crowd in this forum see only the annual salary but according to LKY, the hardest part is the loss of privacy for every one in the minister's family.

 

How many of you can stomach the vulgarities and unreasonable behaviour as shown by some forumers? Curse and scold the ministers and act like know-it-alls and continually blaming everyone.

 

In this age of social media and keyboard warriors, how many of you can stomach the unreasonable behaviour from some of the notorious anti-pap forumers here?

 

Public service is easy to criticise but hard to perform. 30% will criticise unreasonably no matter what is delivered to them. So if you are already top in your industry, with all the privacy to enjoy your stuff, why would you bother to work for so many ungrateful, ugly, ungracious citizens?

 

You go into public service, you cannot be seen changing to luxury car every few years, going to show flats, going to orchard road sale, ordering amazon alot, because too many green eyed, envious, resentful, irrational citizens out to find fault and criticise with their filthy mouth.

You are absolutely right about this. But why do people still want to get into politics? Hope the reasons are the good ones. 

[daftTrue]

I think TCB will have to use the same stringent selection and vetting process as pap to field his team of front runners. If not, how to have a chance to better pap.

 

 

So this is an opportunity for the anti-pap haters here to try to join TCB's party. See if you make the grade. See if you have the right stuff. See if you can tahan the vetting and scrutiny of your mindset, attitudes and qualities.

 

See if you can stand the same viciousness and bullying from social media, which you dish out against pap.

 

Talk, complaints and criticism is risk-free and cowardly.

 

 

[Chongster]

I think TCB will have to use the same stringent selection and vetting process as pap to field his team of front runners. If not, how to have a chance to better pap.

 

 

So this is an opportunity for the anti-pap haters here to try to join TCB's party. See if you make the grade. See if you have the right stuff. See if you can tahan the vetting and scrutiny of your mindset, attitudes and qualities.

 

See if you can stand the same viciousness and bullying from social media, which you dish out against pap.

 

Talk, complaints and criticism is risk-free and cowardly.

Did something happen to you along the way? How come you do hung up about getting scolded and vulgarities and all that???

[daftTrue]

You are absolutely right about this. But why do people still want to get into politics? Hope the reasons are the good ones. 

 

Why be so cynical and negative when you can try to join any party and see if you can tolerate the rigors and scrutiny of both the exco and the haters?

 

Those who focus only on the pay means they probably not earning that amount, and also implies they are not skilled and talented enough to demand the high pay.

 

I think in singapore, the ministers have earned their million bucks annually well enough, because they have built and improved the infrastructure and systems such that most citizens can themselves have the opportunity to earn millions of their own.

[Lethalstrike]

PSP only got approval in-principle only leh.

 

Still got possibility that there will be roadblocks to stop TCB from contesting in the next GE...patterns have not come out only

[daftTrue]

Did something happen to you along the way? How come you do hung up about getting scolded and vulgarities and all that???

[Maxus-MIFA9]

PSP only got approval in-principle only leh.

 

Still got possibility that there will be roadblocks to stop TCB from contesting in the next GE...patterns have not come out only

 

Hmmmm........ sound like getting a COE first ... 

 

Then up to AD or PI wants to sell you the car or not ...  

[Victor68]

Why be so cynical and negative when you can try to join any party and see if you can tolerate the rigors and scrutiny of both the exco and the haters?

 

Those who focus only on the pay means they probably not earning that amount, and also implies they are not skilled and talented enough to demand the high pay.

 

I think in singapore, the ministers have earned their million bucks annually well enough, because they have built and improved the infrastructure and systems such that most citizens can themselves have the opportunity to earn millions of their own.

When a person enters politics and decides to serve, he/she comes prepared to be scrutinized and accepted feedback. Aren't these a pre-requisite attributes of a politician?

 

So you are saying government can decides how much to pay their ministers and the citizens can also shut up? You 2nd paragraph seems to imply only ministers should be paid high pay and general public that oppose are receiving lower pay than ministers or those with higher pays generally all fully accepted the minister's high pay? Or are you agreeing minister pay is the highest. 

 

I don't think most people disagree that in general, our government has performed well enough. However, are we saying they are faultless? All ministers are best and no other better ones around in this island? Are there rooms for improvements and changes or we should status quo and suck thumb? Never to question and let them lead us blindly? 

[Sdf4786k]

I believe if you take out the pay component and discuss just on what has been done for the people, that would be a step in the right direction.

 

So let us use an imaginary score card / KPI and the discussion should get us out of this salary thing. 

 

We are starting to discuss about the tale of the boy, the father and the donkey

 

The father had the difficult task of putting food on the table and decided to sell the donkey. 

 

The 8-year-old son wanted to tag along but the journey to the market was long.

 

along the way the father saw the tired look in the eyes of the son and ask him to mount the donkey while he led the donkey.

 

a woman spotted the boy on the donkey than berate the boy.

 

how could you let your old haggled father walk to town while you happily sit on the donkey? so unfilial

 

So they swap places

 

The boy led the donkey half way and a man spotted the boy struggling to pull the donkey.

 

The man then commented

 

How stupid you look . Has it not cross your mind that a donkey could carry two of you and is genetically strong?

 

So the boy got on the donkey

 

Along the way, another busy body shouted at the abused of the donkey and insist that they should be ashamed of themselves trying to squeeze every once of the donkey and selling it to the market for a profit.

 

They should at least carry the mule to the market to repent for their sinful behavior

 

When they got to the market, everyone was laughing at the two because of how ridiculous the woman had made them.

 

Moral of the story.

 

If we continue to think this way, we will be mock ( village people / the world ) to no end because the outcome is we are just wasting our time trying to change things that will never change aand the opinion is just an opinion.

 

Its how you present the logic that is relevant and can be bought.

 

 

 

 

[Yeshe]

not sure i understand what you are talking about, but train breakdowns were largely because (1) train system couldn't deal with the load from uncontrolled immigration, (2) previous CEO was a marketing person and did not prioritise maintenance.

 

in any case SG civil service and stat board, govt linked jobs are not considered badly paid at all levels. and there is more job security than private sector. so, yeah, not quite sure what you are talking about.

Who created problems 1) and 2)?

[Ash2017]

You feel sorry for them / justify for their existence BUT they are millions better off than you and me

 

every job has a job description and social expectations, even being a billionaire you loose your privacy

 

MLM boss need to buy flashy car even if no money otherwise how to attract 

 

a billionaire son becomes a monk in Singapore, you expect him to drive or be driven in a Rolls Royce

 

Why you say being a minister in Singapore is a thankless job? Did Singaporeans force them to be Ministers? Many would not make it in the private sector and what about job stability and do wrong also carry on.

 

When you are a minister at that level, you think you bothered about Radx banning you in MCF? Someone just in jest say want to egg K Shanmugam in facebook and soon after got a love letter from Police. They got others to the worrying for them.

 

That said, there are few good ministers around but the best of the lot comes from our founding fathers.

 

 

 

PS: If opposition comes into power, over the years they will turn out to be same. Its a job hazard.

 

 

 

 

The hardest thing about being a minister in singapore is that it is a thankless job. The anti-pap crowd in this forum see only the annual salary but according to LKY, the hardest part is the loss of privacy for every one in the minister's family.

 

How many of you can stomach the vulgarities and unreasonable behaviour as shown by some forumers? Curse and scold the ministers and act like know-it-alls and continually blaming everyone.

 

In this age of social media and keyboard warriors, how many of you can stomach the unreasonable behaviour from some of the notorious anti-pap forumers here?

 

Public service is easy to criticise but hard to perform. 30% will criticise unreasonably no matter what is delivered to them. So if you are already top in your industry, with all the privacy to enjoy your stuff, why would you bother to work for so many ungrateful, ugly, ungracious citizens?

 

You go into public service, you cannot be seen changing to luxury car every few years, going to show flats, going to orchard road sale, ordering amazon alot, because too many green eyed, envious, resentful, irrational citizens out to find fault and criticise with their filthy mouth.