Is Singapore Driver being double taxed by LTA?

[Midorima]

Letâs hear your rebuttal against the views by @Ash2017

Well his first sentence on formulating policies, having end goal in mind and working around it. I read that then I don’t feel like rebutting his views already cos this statement I also can say. It’s so textbook. Even in a corporate setting, this is already not easy. In a government policy situation with diverse needs of so many people, how do u strike the balance? There will always be people who are not happy.

 

So easy, then why are no countries doing it well? Look around the world. Even countries with natural resources and land are not doing well. Singapore being how it is, can anyone propose a better way to solve the issue of land scarcity and traffic management? U might have some idea, but implementation will have problems again. It’s easy to say, free one.

 

If u look at the taxes and coe model now, is it really a big issue? U do realise people only get taxed when they buy the car. Then why are so many people still buying cars? Even those expensive makes. If u can’t afford it, is it the end of the world that u can’t go to work or anywhere? I think because the system works and there are only a handful of unhappy people, why focus so much on it. The government has to focus on other areas. Healthcare which is more impt, a matter of life and death, not on things like cost of owning a car.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Midorima

[Ash2017]

Well his first sentence on formulating policies, having end goal in mind and working around it. I read that then I don’t feel like rebutting his views already cos this statement I also can say. It’s so textbook. Even in a corporate setting, this is already not easy. In a government policy situation with diverse needs of so many people, how do u strike the balance? There will always be people who are not happy. If you do observe on how our policies are crafted, first implement without extensive consultation of stakeholders then a snowball of things goes wrong and reactionary measures taken with the resultant of undesired effects such as PMD. Corporate is different from government policies. In government it is the people who elect them and pay them through their hard earn money. Our casinos no doubt bring in money for the country but we don't know how much is given to get them to get them here and how much we are loosing to keep them here and ensure they are profitable BUT all these had lead to many social woes. There are many ways to earn revenue for the country and for starters we can start to be prudent with our spending such as 800K rubbish bin and $300million overbudget for youth games. Also not building white elephants. There is also many cases of complete write off but no accountability known eg buying a entire computer system (not your PC) but cannot integrate with existing system. 

 

So easy, then why are no countries doing it well? Look around the world. Even countries with natural resources and land are not doing well. Singapore being how it is, can anyone propose a better way to solve the issue of land scarcity and traffic management? U might have some idea, but implementation will have problems again. It’s easy to say, free one. It is not fair to compare with other countries, our politicians are the highest paid in this universe and their salary are paid by the people. They are paid handsomely to find a solution and not to tell us it is an honest mistake and move on. Please seriously go and study our country's policy on traffic management with respect to public transport. In short, low returns, reduce service or cut service especially public buses. You mentioned land scares but problems are self created isn't it. I believe the plan is to increase current 5plus million to over 10million and the former architect of Singapore say Singapore can accommodate. So infra-structure must be available and adequate. We are not paid millions and are not experts but they are paid millions and have experts working for them. It basically boils down to cost efficiency, cost recovery and it does not matter if there are many elderly in the estate who needs the bus service. If they had planned properly and not cut corners, we should have had lifts on every floor in all HDB flats. Turn around and force leasees to help pay for installation.

 

If u look at the taxes and coe model now, is it really a big issue? U do realise people only get taxed when they buy the car. Then why are so many people still buying cars? Even those expensive makes. If u can’t afford it, is it the end of the world that u can’t go to work or anywhere? I think because the system works and there are only a handful of unhappy people, why focus so much on it. The government has to focus on other areas. Healthcare which is more impt, a matter of life and death, not on things like cost of owning a car. There is a segment of the population who would have the financial means to buy. But there are a substantial number who buy because of necessities such as work, ferrying elderly or handicap family members. In addition, all these cost are pass on downstream. If taxi COE and other taxes increase your taxi ride would be more expensive. So everyone suffers. You sure there is ONLY a handful of unhappy people. Look at many here who can afford but choose to buy 2nd hand. Where are your evidence that only a handful are unhappy? You brought up about healthcare that the government need to focus and not on things like cost of owning a car. If so instead solving local problems, your minister are you to ship your elderly to JB for old age and seek cheaper medical assistance from Malaysia. By the way, Malaysia does not belong to us and by forcing our locals over to Malaysia we are creative problems for the locals in Malaysia. I challenge you go spend 1 week at Singapore casket and interview how many died because they cannot afford the best and appropriate treatment that is available. 

 

It seems contradictory. Here we are going to implement several taxes on pollution by cars but we are not welcoming to electric cars. Are we protecting the oil MNC to ensure their profitability including the ridiculous 3/4 tank rule. 

 

Nobody said the problems will go away in a few days or is easy to solve. Taxing your citizens to death is not a long term solution unless you intend to do social engineering to replace locals with foreigners. 

 

I have completely NO issue with how you think because I respect your views and agree to disagree. It is difficult to understand your subjects if the king and queen lives in castle with a moot and high walls.

 

 

[Ahbengdriver]

What do you think?

 

Who say one?  Teo Chee Buy?

[Midorima]

 

I think we can go on and on but maybe let’s go back to the topic on cars.

 

I don’t think electric cars will fly, welcoming or not, in Singapore. U need the charging infrastructure and because we are land scarce, not many people live on landed properties whereby you can charge your vehicle without having to wait. There will also not be enough charging points in a hdb block for eg to cater for all. If u have to charge somewhere, it will not be as fast as petrol cars, and the time wasted is kind of not worth the effort. Unless u can convert every single car to electric, then its worth to build on the infrastructure. Then it would be a chicken and egg problem right?

 

By the way, if u say not welcoming because of Tesla, I think one of the fundamental thing is Tesla cars are powerful cars, way out of reach of most people. The entry level ones like ioniq and zoe still come in.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Midorima

[inlinesix]

I think we can go on and on but maybe let’s go back to the topic on cars.

 

I don’t think electric cars will fly, welcoming or not, in Singapore. U need the charging infrastructure and because we are land scarce, not many people live on landed properties whereby you can charge your vehicle without having to wait. There will also not be enough charging points in a hdb block for eg to cater for all. If u have to charge somewhere, it will not be as fast as petrol cars, and the time wasted is kind of not worth the effort. Unless u can convert every single car to electric, then its worth to build on the infrastructure. Then it would be a chicken and egg problem right?

 

By the way, if u say not welcoming because of Tesla, I think one of the fundamental thing is Tesla cars are powerful cars, way out of reach of most people. The entry level ones like ioniq and zoe still come in.

Please read on 150w charger.

[Char]

And now I think for last 5 years ++ or so cannot claim back property tax if your unit is not able to rent out ( vacant) in the old days can though lots of paperwork and they (govt) also Boh Eng to do every case

Rental out unit already tax 10% from annual value yet still want to tax rental income ! This is seriously double tax in my opinion .

[Wt_know]

spore is named one of the “tax haven” - direct tax

but they never mention about indirect tax

that can tax you many many times ... muahahaha

 

petrol kena tax

water kena tax

ciggy kena tax

alcohol kena tax

goods and services kena tax

tax on tax

soon sugar also kena tax?

Edited December 30, 2018 by Wt_know

[kelaihoyin]

spore is named one of the “tax haven” - direct tax

but they never mention about indirect tax

that can tax you many many times ... muahahaha

 

petrol kena tax

water kena tax

ciggy kena tax

alcohol kena tax

goods and services kena tax

tax on tax

soon sugar also kena tax?

 

Dont forget digital sales tax soon. Maybe next time posting on this forum also have to pay

[Midorima]

Please read on 150w charger.

How fast would it charge? Faster than pump petrol and pay by app which can be done in a few mins?

 

Unfortunately people can’t even wait 5 mins nowadays.

 

That said, even the European countries don’t have that much electric vehicles. I don’t think it’s our practise to be the first, if there is no obvious advantage to it.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Midorima

[inlinesix]

How fast would it charge? Faster than pump petrol and pay by app which can be done in a few mins?

 

Unfortunately people can’t even wait 5 mins nowadays.

Pump petrol is more than 5 minutes. As long as you need to pump petrol.

 

If ppl can’t even wait for 5 mins, something wrong.

[Midorima]

Pump petrol is more than 5 minutes. As long as you need to pump petrol.

 

If ppl canât even wait for 5 mins, something wrong.

I’ve pumped petrol many times within 5 mins. Not sure which one u go to. Even going to the counter to pay and stuff.

 

Well charging we r talking about 15-20mins? I read it’s 30 mins. The number of charging stations vs cars on road, turnaround time would be damn slow and crazy. The infrastructure will be intense, because we r not a big country and the car density is very high.

[Wt_know]

i believe ah gong will push for it

electric bus and autonomous vehicle probably will be the test bed for 100% EV

besides, claiming 1st is in iur DNA !

 

That said, even the European countries don’t have that much electric vehicles. I don’t think it’s our practise to be the first, if there is no obvious advantage to it.

[Midorima]

i believe ah gong will push for it

electric bus and autonomous vehicle probably will be the test bed for 100% EV

besides, claiming 1st is in iur DNA !

 

 

Public transport will be the first like u said. Buses have their own places to park, so it is possible. Just have chargers at interchanges and depots, and the buses at a particular interchange is fixed, and can be scheduled.

 

Private car is another story altogether.

[Sdf4786k]

spore is named one of the “tax haven” - direct tax

but they never mention about indirect tax

that can tax you many many times ... muahahaha

 

petrol kena tax

water kena tax

ciggy kena tax

alcohol kena tax

goods and services kena tax

tax on tax

soon sugar also kena tax?

sugar will be a tough choice. 

 

After that rice tax? 

 

I used to recall a good welfare by a mfg company. HR buys RICE to give to the workers. So if eat cai png, rice is free. 

 

Who knows the canteen operator smarter. Take rice and repackage it as fried rice and charge the workers...

Edited December 30, 2018 by Sdf4786k

[inlinesix]

I’ve pumped petrol many times within 5 mins. Not sure which one u go to. Even going to the counter to pay and stuff.

 

Well charging we r talking about 15-20mins? I read it’s 30 mins. The number of charging stations vs cars on road, turnaround time would be damn slow and crazy. The infrastructure will be intense, because we r not a big country and the car density is very high.

 

We are not a big country.  That's why EV is suitable for us.

 

Our car density is very high for a small country.  It is like 10 human to 1 car.

 

Germany so big also 10 human to 1 car.  That's why we need COE.

 

By the way, you can always charge your car when you go lim kopi, eat breakfast/lunch/dinner & etc.

 

There will always be pocket of time for you to do car charging + .....

 

It is how you fully utilised your downtime.  Downtime <> idle time.

[Midorima]

We are not a big country. That's why EV is suitable for us.

 

Our car density is very high for a small country. It is like 10 human to 1 car.

 

Germany so big also 10 human to 1 car. That's why we need COE.

 

By the way, you can always charge your car when you go lim kopi, eat breakfast/lunch/dinner & etc.

 

There will always be pocket of time for you to do car charging + .....

 

It is how you fully utilised your downtime. Downtime <> idle time.

Yes agree we can all make the effort to utilise downtime. Maybe u can, u plan well, u have less commitment. Some can’t even plan admin time, get put off with errands, those with kids, those with uncertain work times, they will not have luxury of planning. Added inconvenience of charging will put them off. For me, with a baby, I wouldn’t spend twenty mins to charge my car and lim kopi. No luxury of time.

[Vratenza]

The biggest gripe I have with full electric vehicles is that our garment will still be factoring in carbon tax and lost of petrol tax into the electrical grid pricing.

 

Yes our electrical grid is still powered by fossil fuels..... Let's not go into nuclear power debate. 

 

Save the earth? Pay up first... Because the garment is sure not going to foot the bill for you. 

 

 

[inlinesix]

The biggest gripe I have with full electric vehicles is that our garment will still be factoring in carbon tax and lost of petrol tax into the electrical grid pricing.

 

Yes our electrical grid is still powered by fossil fuels..... Let's not go into nuclear power debate. 

 

Save the earth? Pay up first... Because the garment is sure not going to foot the bill for you. 

 

That's why bicycle is the best.  

 

No COE, No Roadtax, No ERP, NO VES, No carbon tax

 

Don't ask for air conditioning PCN.  Otherwise kenna tax again.

 

No more new petrol/diesel car by 2050.  Sooner or later we have to accept EV.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Davidtch