NS related deaths

[Throttle2]

Turn out is siong and tiring but thats just fatigue and mental frustration.

Heat stroke is not caused simply by fatigue.

Its the heat

 

Its usually due to dehydration and the body’s inability to “release” the heat due to the extreme environment.

 

I remember during bmt, i didnt drink all my water becos i didnt feel all that thirsty but rather was feeling so hot. Pour it over my head and body instead, to cool down. But even the water was quite hot so really got to get into a shade to rest.

 

Unfortunately one of my platoon mates also suffered heat stroke.

He mc 2weeks and recovered fully. Heng ah.

 

So my personal practice is to douse myself with water to even before i start the anticipated activity.

Not forgetting Singapore can be really hot and we are wearing thick number 4 with boots.

The heat is easy to stay trapped. So my uniform already wet before i start.

Look silly but works

Edited April 30, 2018 by Throttle2

[mersaylee]

It’s always saddening to hear this type of news. My heart is with the deceased and family.

 

Our boys training to be men as protectors of our nation where we call home, yet lives taken away unnecessarily by avoidable mishaps. We already don’t have enough “guns” to make up the numbers, so every one available is extremely valuable.

 

All uniform groups demand high level of discipline with zero tolerance for flout. The men and women are to follow orders as instructed, same must be expected from the commanders. If any activity was carried out without authorisation from higher level or adhere to the safety SOP imposed by MINDEF or the likes, the entire chain of command must be dealt with for any lapse...

 

Earlier today I was dining at a kpt, there’s a recruit helping out his old folks at the stall. I felt honoured to be served by that young man, despite the tough bmt training yet spend the day off at the stall instead of resting at home or out with his frens.

 

Another encounter, it was right after midnight on a new year day at the airport. My family and I were there for supper after watching some fireworks...one policeman and two NSFs were patrolling the vicinity of the cafe we were at. I gave them a thumbs up while I reminded my kids how fortunate we all were to be able to enjoy peace if not for the people who stay vigilant 24/7 for our nation security on all frontiers - land, air, sea.

 

May the deceased R.I.P. and his family finds strength to move on in life asap.

[Watwheels]

I think the poor boy's health is not good to begin with. Cos other soldiers are more or less ok.

 

If you say the soldiers didn't get enough rest the commanders who turn out the soldiers have to get up even earlier to get ready. Or they totally didn't get any sleep at all. They too have to be in the same turn out attire and do the fast march together.

 

It's the fear that could have prevented him to sound out that he's unwell. Ppl will give him the look especially if he had to report sick during a fast march.

[Volvobrick]

RIP Young Soldier!  We salute you!

 

If there was indeed disregard or intentional breech of TSR, then the CGO and entire chain of command should be removed (like US Navy 7th Fleet case) for failing to carry out their duties to ensure safe training, not just the section commanders.

[Mockngbrd]

Chao keng is best.

[Evillusion]

I think the poor boy's health is not good to begin with. Cos other soldiers are more or less ok.

 

If you say the soldiers didn't get enough rest the commanders who turn out the soldiers have to get up even earlier to get ready. Or they totally didn't get any sleep at all. They too have to be in the same turn out attire and do the fast march together.

 

It's the fear that could have prevented him to sound out that he's unwell. Ppl will give him the look especially if he had to report sick during a fast march.

even fit guys can get heatstroke if the body is not rehydrated properly. And all men would have been reminded of the importance especially in this kind of weather we are having these past few weeks. I have seen unfit army guys doing fast march and he survived with a little help from us. And as men, we are ultimately responsible for our own body........remember the movie Ah Boys to men? Its fiction but lets just take a cue from that movie.

RIP Young Soldier! We salute you!

 

If there was indeed disregard or intentional breech of TSR, then the CGO and entire chain of command should be removed (like US Navy 7th Fleet case) for failing to carry out their duties to ensure safe training, not just the section commanders.

and put them where.....mrt?lta?......dowan lar!

[Atrecord]

Turn out is siong and tiring but thats just fatigue and mental frustration.

Heat stroke is not caused simply by fatigue.

Its the heat

 

Its usually due to dehydration and the body’s inability to “release” the heat due to the extreme environment.

 

I remember during bmt, i didnt drink all my water becos i didnt feel all that thirsty but rather was feeling so hot. Pour it over my head and body instead, to cool down. But even the water was quite hot so really got to get into a shade to rest.

 

Unfortunately one of my platoon mates also suffered heat stroke.

He mc 2weeks and recovered fully. Heng ah.

 

So my personal practice is to douse myself with water to even before i start the anticipated activity.

Not forgetting Singapore can be really hot and we are wearing thick number 4 with boots.

The heat is easy to stay trapped. So my uniform already wet before i start.

Look silly but works

 

Yes, agree that heat stroke and fatigue are not related.

 

During my time, often fatigued, but my platoons had never had anyone getting heat injuries. One of my univ mates and a cousin said they had heat stroke - and survived...

 

I think my (fortunate) experience (of not having met heat injuries), was in part due to the kiasu/kiasi syndrome exhibited by the commanders i had, which fortunately influenced us too.

 

Unlike you, I didn't believe in dousing with water - as it greatly increases the chance of the body getting rashes from the abrasion due to excess contact with the wet uniform.

 

What we were told and made to do, was to drink water until wanna vomit, the night before any streneous exercises/missions. The instructors would fall in the platoon, and make everyone fill water bottle before seeing everyone drink under supervision. If not filled to the brim, must keep going to toilet to fill. Then in the middle of the night, everyone will go toilet to pee. But the interrupted sleep meant that everybody's system was full of water being circulated before the exercises/missions/drills, which will help to prevent dehydration.

 

So during the exercises/missions/drills or runs, we just perspired a lot, which is a sure sign that we'll not get heat injuries. Once the body can sweat, that means the mechanism to lose heat from within the body is working and you're safe.

 

For those who can't lose heat from the internal organs by sweating, that's when the excess heat built up, and will eventually result in heat stroke.

 

I'm sure you've heard that for heat stroke victims, they're stripped naked and thrown inside a tank filled with water, to quickly bring the body temp down. This is just external, and is still not as good as the body's natural mechanism to lose internal heat by sweating - but still it helps to bring down the temp, and is the standard SOP for heat stroke, i was told.

 

If the boy died of heat stroke, I suspect he didn't drink the required amount of water. And the duty instructor would be the first to be liable for not ensuring it.

 

It is absolutely a must to have water parade before a route march, what more a 'Fast March'... The water parade should be done once the night before, and again just before the march. If everyone was fully hydrated, there should be no danger of heat injuries.

 

Btw, during my time, there was no Fast March, but there was Forced March. It was done with only SBO, helmet rifle AND NO FULLPACKS. It was marching at double quick time, so FBO was out of the question. FBO was used in normal route marches, and they are longer, going from 8 km to 16 km, then 24 km. Forced marches were I think typically 4 km, or at most 8 km.

 

The HWZ post mentioned a lot of incriminating things like turnout and tekaning on the night before the march. I'm surprised they still dare to do such things nowadays, before a major exercise. It would have been an obvious reason for many injuries due to fatigue. But somehow I'm not so sure about it causing heat stroke.

 

Let the BOI convene, and I hope that it will unearth the real reason, so that there will be closure for the deceased boy's family, improvements to be made to the SOPs to avoid any future recurrence, and also an account to all the parents who have sons serving or going to serve NS.

 

Such tragedies cannot be allowed to happen even once, what more at the rate we're seeing.

 

MRT keeps failing, and Singaporeans are so used to it. I hope the same will never happen for such training deaths...

 

RIP...

[Evillusion]

Yes, agree that heat stroke and fatigue are not related.

 

During my time, often fatigued, but my platoons had never had anyone getting heat injuries. One of my univ mates and a cousin said they had heat stroke - and survived...

 

I think my (fortunate) experience (of not having met heat injuries), was in part due to the kiasu/kiasi syndrome exhibited by the commanders i had, which fortunately influenced us too.

 

Unlike you, I didn't believe in dousing with water - as it greatly increases the chance of the body getting rashes from the abrasion due to excess contact with the wet uniform.

 

What we were told and made to do, was to drink water until wanna vomit, the night before any streneous exercises/missions. The instructors would fall in the platoon, and make everyone fill water bottle before seeing everyone drink under supervision. If not filled to the brim, must keep going to toilet to fill. Then in the middle of the night, everyone will go toilet to pee. But the interrupted sleep meant that everybody's system was full of water being circulated before the exercises/missions/drills, which will help to prevent dehydration.

 

So during the exercises/missions/drills or runs, we just perspired a lot, which is a sure sign that we'll not get heat injuries. Once the body can sweat, that means the mechanism to lose heat from within the body is working and you're safe.

 

For those who can't lose heat from the internal organs by sweating, that's when the excess heat built up, and will eventually result in heat stroke.

 

I'm sure you've heard that for heat stroke victims, they're stripped naked and thrown inside a tank filled with water, to quickly bring the body temp down. This is just external, and is still not as good as the body's natural mechanism to lose internal heat by sweating - but still it helps to bring down the temp, and is the standard SOP for heat stroke, i was told.

 

If the boy died of heat stroke, I suspect he didn't drink the required amount of water. And the duty instructor would be the first to be liable for not ensuring it.

 

It is absolutely a must to have water parade before a route march, what more a 'Fast March'... The water parade should be done once the night before, and again just before the march. If everyone was fully hydrated, there should be no danger of heat injuries.

 

Btw, during my time, there was no Fast March, but there was Forced March. It was done with only SBO, helmet rifle AND NO FULLPACKS. It was marching at double quick time, so FBO was out of the question. FBO was used in normal route marches, and they are longer, going from 8 km to 16 km, then 24 km. Forced marches were I think typically 4 km, or at most 8 km.

 

The HWZ post mentioned a lot of incriminating things like turnout and tekaning on the night before the march. I'm surprised they still dare to do such things nowadays, before a major exercise. It would have been an obvious reason for many injuries due to fatigue. But somehow I'm not so sure about it causing heat stroke.

 

Let the BOI convene, and I hope that it will unearth the real reason, so that there will be closure for the deceased boy's family, improvements to be made to the SOPs to avoid any future recurrence, and also an account to all the parents who have sons serving or going to serve NS.

 

Such tragedies cannot be allowed to happen even once, what more at the rate we're seeing.

 

MRT keeps failing, and Singaporeans are so used to it. I hope the same will never happen for such training deaths...

 

RIP...

wah....your 'force'/fast marched (sound audibly similar) no fbo wan? My unit it was full-battle gear with blue dummy mags including all support weapons. Support platoon was left behind because of heavy weapons and ammo-carrier. Whole company kana farked during tge 5-10 mins rest because we had left them behind. Second half my platoon was the last platoon and the weapons ended with our platoon because they had slowly passed down the weapons. I remembered i was carrying 2 full-packs and the medics pouch or an m16 when we reached the endpoint. I just would not want to carry the support weapons. Luckily the guys infront who had reached the endpoint ran back without their gears to ease off the load for the last 50-100 metres.

[Hoseyboh]

Copied from my ex-army whatapps group whose son happen to be in the same company. If true, dis idiots must sent to DB and have a taste of their own medicine ...

 

"Have been hearing my boy being tekan jialat jialat since enlistment n hv been giving him encouragement. Can understand being drafted into elite forces have to put thru tougher training. Each time he booked out he mentioned abt training not following TSR. I trusted SAF training regime n hv to convince my wife who was so v worried. Didn’t know these bunch of trainers really subject their lives to such unnecessary risks. This incident shd not hv happened after reading the FB post and hope actions must be taken at mindef level to alleviate the fears of the anxious parents.

 

Sending my son back to camp now for his CO’s address on this incident. Can see he is saddened to see his peers go and the whole company traumatized like we experienced"

[Playtime]

I'm actually not convinced of the benefits of forced drinking.

Regular consumption at interval should be better than just forced drinking.. try Force March with a distended tummy.

 

Maybe some Commander scared that you will drink from water bottle during March to "reduce" weight..

Edited May 1, 2018 by Playtime

[Blueray]

因热损伤逝世服役人员已捐献眼角膜

 

http://www.zaobao.com.sg/realtime/singapore/story20180501-855099

 

 

[RogerNg_185295]

Mods

Please delete if you find this inappropriate

 

Attachment removed by @carbon82

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Carbon82

[Mkl22]

RIP Young Soldier! We salute you!

 

If there was indeed disregard or intentional breech of TSR, then the CGO and entire chain of command should be removed (like US Navy 7th Fleet case) for failing to carry out their duties to ensure safe training, not just the section commanders.

Wait long long ah. Only the 2LT and SGT will Kenna.

[Evillusion]

Copied from my ex-army whatapps group whose son happen to be in the same company. If true, dis idiots must sent to DB and have a taste of their own medicine ...

 

"Have been hearing my boy being tekan jialat jialat since enlistment n hv been giving him encouragement. Can understand being drafted into elite forces have to put thru tougher training. Each time he booked out he mentioned abt training not following TSR. I trusted SAF training regime n hv to convince my wife who was so v worried. Didn’t know these bunch of trainers really subject their lives to such unnecessary risks. This incident shd not hv happened after reading the FB post and hope actions must be taken at mindef level to alleviate the fears of the anxious parents.

 

Sending my son back to camp now for his CO’s address on this incident. Can see he is saddened to see his peers go and the whole company traumatized like we experienced"

ex-army watssap group! They especially those who had gone to ocs and sispec will surely know what is going on in a combat unit. I am not even surprised such tekanning sessions happens in a combat unit especially after bmt.......but its rather mild if compared to the previous generations of ns training.

[Carbon82]

Mods

 

Please delete if you find this inappropriate

 

Attachment removed by @carbon82

 

The same information has been posted in the thread.

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2678453-army-death-last-month/?p=6407338

 

While we are very concern about the case, particularly if the deceased has been subjected to any inappropriate treatment during the whole process, and hoping that no similar case happen again, but as the case is developing, and that Mindef is setting BOI to look into it, let keep all speculation at bay for now.

[Tohto]

I thought with all the previous incidents, the commanders will be more careful not to touch these recruits?

All these commanders are also young guys, maybe only one year older than those trainees if they are all nsf.

Not mature enough to think.

[Sosaria]

I'm actually not convinced of the benefits of forced drinking.

Regular consumption at interval should be better than just forced drinking.. try Force March with a distended tummy.

 

Maybe some Commander scared that you will drink from water bottle during March to "reduce" weight..

Me too. I am surprised to hear such case happen around 8.30am when the weather still relatively cool. Unless there was underlying medical condition.

 

Those doing long distance run, at even older age, just go out the door and run in hotter weather, drink from one bottle only.

 

I never practise the drink until full tank the night before tactic. No practical use.

[Evillusion]

All these commanders are also young guys, maybe only one year older than those trainees if they are all nsf.

Not mature enough to think.

its how this commanders are raised.....if they are raised with good values they wont be such a sadistic bs3rd.........values differs with each family background.