NS related deaths

[Yewheng]

After reading this whole thread, realized there is really a lot of ah pek ex-soldiers here. The term "NCO" is long gone since the mid-90s. And so many talk about commanders not knowing the safety aspects blah blah... I strongly believe there are MANY here who are the very specialists and officers ppl talk bad about. Cannot be here car owners all CPL and below right?? LOL...

 

Anyway, someone also mentioned what "safety time out" by any person anytime, anywhere?!? I've never come across this over my past 20 years in combat vocation in army, even went thru yearly refresher course at SMTI. Pls don't create fake news leh. "safety time out" only happens whenever a major incident happened after. And the call is made by higher ups, NOT any rank n file personnel.

 

SAF overall are pretty safe lah. Many safety doctrines are taught and highlighted at every opportunity and exercise. Actually in my whole life being from student to adulthood working private companies, SAF is the most safety organization I've "worked" with. Keep reminding me to wear helmet when setting up antenna even if it's hot, keep reminding me to drink up, keep reminding me to horn when reversing my vehicle, ask me to physically get out of the vehicle to check behind before reversing, always have waterpoint with ice whenever there are activities and so on. Tell me, where else can you find such safety arrangements in other aspect of place/organization you work/play at??

 

But still a son is gone. Hopefully all safety aspects are covered.

 

My 5 cents.

​So you say already.. so change it to anyone can shout it out la, if those rank and file personnel sees danger shout safety time out.. why not?. Why only leave it to higher up to call safety time out?

Edited May 2, 2018 by Yewheng

[Maxus-MIFA9]

If I could volunteer to be member of the COI, I will attend every single meeting and enquiry.

But than, low SES like me probably will not even have access to the detail investigation report.

 

COI, will they ... .....

 

Remember "No Spring Cleaning" at hawker centres ceiling requires Parliament sitting...

 

Weighting the scales, this one only FR can leow. 

[Zxcvb]

​So you say already.. so change it to anyone can shout it out la, if those rank and file personnel sees danger shout safety time out.. why not?. Why only leave it to higher up to call safety time out?

 

I agree it's common sense for anybody to "sound out" unsafe practices during it's course and activity. But "safety time out" is a after-action whereby all activities are halted or scaled down for an extended period of time AFTER a major incident - weeks or months.

[Kusje]

actually the rules is quite safe even from long long ago.

but as alway there will be officers or specs who go all the way out to wack or get results.

 

when i was a bmt pl sgt instructor in tekong , i remember got 1 time my OC make the recuit carry cola cola cans fill with sands for road march. he say its to condition them for 24km.

 

i was lucky 2 years there nothing major happen.

there is TSR, but no 1 follow or even bother to read, 

 

Yes, rules are there... Need to enforce! Those that don't follow should be punished. NSF or regular, cannot give chance.

[Kusje]

I agree it's common sense for anybody to "sound out" unsafe practices during it's course and activity. But "safety time out" is a after-action whereby all activities are halted or scaled down for an extended period of time AFTER a major incident - weeks or months.

 

ok la. he got the terminology wrong.

 

frankly, i also dunno what is safety time out.

[Ash2017]

It saddens me very much that even before we go to war, so many line up to die already. In peace time, 1 death is already too many. Almost everyone is grief. 

 

If there should be a war and many more than 1 body line up our road, what then. 

 

We spend billions on war-mongering machines in the believe of defence. Exactly which Singaporeans are we defending, those living close to our perceived threats in Marine Parade or Woodlands. We have more assets in Australia, USA, Thailand and Taiwan then we have on our own land. Each year it seems we spend more and more defence but doesn't it creates an arms-race among our neighbourhood. 

 

All it takes a huge bomb to drop or penetrate our borders (even the Israelis cannot prevent 100%) and anywhere it destroys will take decade to recover and not to count the tens of thousands of lives lost (eg in one housing estate). 

 

Perhaps, our authorities should really re-examine our priorities, it seems too many deaths are occurring during peace time is inconsolable to the family who just lost a brave soul.

 

 

One thing I really dislike about us is we all like to pretend that everyone in the army is treated equally. If the president's only son is in the same army camp training as the only son of a Sungei Road 2nd hand roadside seller, you think both we receive equal treatment from the day of enlistment to the day of ROD? Even in our own family, we are all blood related, yet we more often than not treat our friends better than our blood relatives.

 

We know there is no perfect system, even Apollo with so many redundancy also has cockups what more when we play with preparation to sacrifice one's life to protect our nation. Hence, I personally feel our authorities are not giving enough recognition to our men who sacrifice their limbs and sometimes like this occasion to protect us all. When in the practical world, after all the sacrifices we are often asked to fight with equal footing with our foreign talents. Such is the facts of life. 

 

It is easy to say this and that, but if the boy was your own son, I am very sure we all would have reacted differently.

 

 

[Yewheng]

I agree it's common sense for anybody to "sound out" unsafe practices during it's course and activity. But "safety time out" is a after-action whereby all activities are halted or scaled down for an extended period of time AFTER a major incident - weeks or months.

​Then create another name for anyone can shout to halt that particular activity or exercise temporarily should anyone from lowest rank sees anyone life in danger or what.

 

​Like can shout.. Stop stop, life in danger.. and then the activity is stopped temporarily 1st and the senior commander will then go and ask this guy why shout stop stop life in danger ( of whatever name is called). Then let this guy explain, if the guy can explain very clearly another private solider life is in danger. Then good what.. can action on it immediately.

 

​Based on that facebook post, imagine someone Private shout.. Stop Stop, life in danger.. then the senior commander temporary stop the road march and then ask him what happened. Then he explained that this guy looks like heat stroke, SGT and officer should not just leave him like that. Should bring him to the shade and tear open his clothing and send for medical attention immediately. This is better than after the incident happened then voice it out in facebook right? 

 

​Even the sgt, commander, senior commander can learn from a very low rank private, if low rank private sees something that others do not see.

 

​Get what I mean?

Edited May 2, 2018 by Yewheng

[Evillusion]

​Then create another name for anyone can shout to halt that particular activity or exercise

temporarily

should anyone from lowest rank sees anyone life in danger or what.

 

​Like can shout.. Stop stop, life in danger.. and then the activity is stopped

temporarily

1st and the senior commander will then go and ask this guy why shout stop stop life in danger ( of whatever name is called). Then let this guy explain, if the guy can explain very clearly another private solider life is in danger. Then good what.. can action on it immediately.

 

​Based on that facebook post, imagine someone Private shout.. Stop Stop, life in danger.. then the senior commander temporary stop the road march and then ask him what happened. Then he explained that this guy looks like heat stroke, SGT and officer should not just leave him like that. Should bring him to the shade and tear open his clothing and send for medical attention immediately. This is better than after the incident happened then voice it out in facebook right?

 

​Even the sgt, commander, senior commander can learn from a very low rank private, if low rank private sees something that others do not see.

 

​Get what I mean?

army doesnt work that way.........sorry. Yes you can notify the commander but its up to him to decide the next course of action.

[Kusje]

​Then create another name for anyone can shout to halt that particular activity or exercise temporarily should anyone from lowest rank sees anyone life in danger or what.

 

​Like can shout.. Stop stop, life in danger.. and then the activity is stopped temporarily 1st and the senior commander will then go and ask this guy why shout stop stop life in danger ( of whatever name is called). Then let this guy explain, if the guy can explain very clearly another private solider life is in danger. Then good what.. can action on it immediately.

 

​Based on that facebook post, imagine someone Private shout.. Stop Stop, life in danger.. then the senior commander temporary stop the road march and then ask him what happened. Then he explained that this guy looks like heat stroke, SGT and officer should not just leave him like that. Should bring him to the shade and tear open his clothing and send for medical attention immediately. This is better than after the incident happened then voice it out in facebook right? 

 

​Even the sgt, commander, senior commander can learn from a very low rank private, if low rank private sees something that others do not see.

 

​Get what I mean?

 

why do you need a special name?

 

just need to shout HELP HELP HELP. 

[Yewheng]

why do you need a special name?

 

just need to shout HELP HELP HELP.

Good iead.. Haha..

[SuPerBoRed]

Have to stand up. Not we say one. Is CO of bmt happen to run pass. He tell the Sgt. U all cannot like that make them stand up after 20 times then do again. If not later kenna complain.

 

Basket it’s more siong to stand up and then go back down Lor.

 

how old are you? that 20 push up at 1 go was written in 2000~2001..  

[Evillusion]

It saddens me very much that even before we go to war, so many line up to die already. In peace time, 1 death is already too many. Almost everyone is grief.

 

If there should be a war and many more than 1 body line up our road, what then.

 

We spend billions on war-mongering machines in the believe of defence. Exactly which Singaporeans are we defending, those living close to our perceived threats in Marine Parade or Woodlands. We have more assets in Australia, USA, Thailand and Taiwan then we have on our own land. Each year it seems we spend more and more defence but doesn't it creates an arms-race among our neighbourhood.

 

All it takes a huge bomb to drop or penetrate our borders (even the Israelis cannot prevent 100%) and anywhere it destroys will take decade to recover and not to count the tens of thousands of lives lost (eg in one housing estate).

 

Perhaps, our authorities should really re-examine our priorities, it seems too many deaths are occurring during peace time is inconsolable to the family who just lost a brave soul.

 

 

One thing I really dislike about us is we all like to pretend that everyone in the army is treated equally. If the president's only son is in the same army camp training as the only son of a Sungei Road 2nd hand roadside seller, you think both we receive equal treatment from the day of enlistment to the day of ROD? Even in our own family, we are all blood related, yet we more often than not treat our friends better than our blood relatives.

 

We know there is no perfect system, even Apollo with so many redundancy also has cockups what more when we play with preparation to sacrifice one's life to protect our nation. Hence, I personally feel our authorities are not giving enough recognition to our men who sacrifice their limbs and sometimes like this occasion to protect us all. When in the practical world, after all the sacrifices we are often asked to fight with equal footing with our foreign talents. Such is the facts of life.

 

It is easy to say this and that, but if the boy was your own son, I am very sure we all would have reacted differently.

Training death is part and parcel of military life.....it happens everywhere throughout the world. Ours touched the grounds and heart because its a citizen's army and many of the guys had gone through the hardship before.

[Yewheng]

army doesnt work that way.........sorry. Yes you can notify the commander but its up to him to decide the next course of action.

Well than that culture should change lor.. Maybe start with chief of defence force pass down this instructions.. Then surely when danger happened and then someone from private shout help help help or what name.. Then the senior commanders should take it very very seriously and temporarily halt any activity that is ongoing and ask that person who shouted help help.

 

Important is must let the guy who shouted help help help to explain why he shouted that. Then commanders will think though what the private said and does he say any sense and then decide on the next course of action.

 

When come to safety everyone plays a part till lowerest rank leh. So this is a must to go forward.

[Enye]

Training death is part and parcel of military life.....it happens everywhere throughout the world. Ours touched the grounds and heart because its a citizen's army and many of the guys had gone through the hardship before.

 

wow...just wow.

 

and your line of reasoning makes all training deaths legit?

 

 

[SuPerBoRed]

It saddens me very much that even before we go to war, so many line up to die already. In peace time, 1 death is already too many. Almost everyone is grief. 

 

If there should be a war and many more than 1 body line up our road, what then. 

 

We spend billions on war-mongering machines in the believe of defence. Exactly which Singaporeans are we defending, those living close to our perceived threats in Marine Parade or Woodlands. We have more assets in Australia, USA, Thailand and Taiwan then we have on our own land. Each year it seems we spend more and more defence but doesn't it creates an arms-race among our neighbourhood. 

 

All it takes a huge bomb to drop or penetrate our borders (even the Israelis cannot prevent 100%) and anywhere it destroys will take decade to recover and not to count the tens of thousands of lives lost (eg in one housing estate). 

 

Perhaps, our authorities should really re-examine our priorities, it seems too many deaths are occurring during peace time is inconsolable to the family who just lost a brave soul.

 

 

One thing I really dislike about us is we all like to pretend that everyone in the army is treated equally. If the president's only son is in the same army camp training as the only son of a Sungei Road 2nd hand roadside seller, you think both we receive equal treatment from the day of enlistment to the day of ROD? Even in our own family, we are all blood related, yet we more often than not treat our friends better than our blood relatives.

 

We know there is no perfect system, even Apollo with so many redundancy also has cockups what more when we play with preparation to sacrifice one's life to protect our nation. Hence, I personally feel our authorities are not giving enough recognition to our men who sacrifice their limbs and sometimes like this occasion to protect us all. When in the practical world, after all the sacrifices we are often asked to fight with equal footing with our foreign talents. Such is the facts of life. 

 

It is easy to say this and that, but if the boy was your own son, I am very sure we all would have reacted differently.

 

agreed agreed... 

 

just wanted to add tho ...  the system is perfect... but it is ran by people... and people are not perfect.... 

[Evillusion]

Well than that culture should change lor.. Maybe start with chief of defence force pass down this instructions.. Then surely when danger happened and then someone from private shout help help help or what name.. Then the senior commanders should take it very very seriously and temporarily halt any activity that is ongoing and ask that person who shouted help help.

 

Important is must let the guy who shouted help help help to explain why he shouted that. Then commanders will think though what the private said and does he say any sense and then decide on the next course of action.

 

When come to safety everyone plays a part till lowerest rank leh. So this is a must to go forward.

in real life it wont be as easy as that lor..........i can give you many instances where the 'time-out' you suggested wont pan out. the fb reports where the ncos forced the guy to continue and even dragged the poor soul is just wrong.

[SuPerBoRed]

in real life it wont be as easy as that lor..........i can give you many instances where the 'time-out' you suggested wont pan out. the fb reports where the ncos forced the guy to continue and even dragged the poor soul is just wrong.

 

if this is proven not true...  good luck to the guy who spread lies against a national pillar. 

 

and as a friendly view bro...  dont regurgitate it... 

[Beregond]

I am a soldier from 1 guards. One of our fellow soldiers is currently in critical condition heat stroke (possibly brain dead) due to the reckless behavior of my fellow commanders. I want to bring this to light so that the commanders involved are duly punished and nothing gets hidden as part of the investigation. Dave is still in critical condition in the hospital, and it has almost been one week since the incident. But there have been rumors that his condition is worsening.

 

The night before a 8km fast march (an activity considered high key) our entire recce platoon was turned out after lights out by our sergeants, forcing us to bear crawl to the (Standard Obstacle Course) grounds at Bedok camp, doing their usual tekan (punishment) of making us roll in the sand and have water poured on us, to satisfy their own sadistic pleasure. As a result, we did not have the adequate seven hours of rest mandated by the training safety regulations required for our fast march the next day.

 

1 of the soldiers say the abrove. etc etc

 

http://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/singapore/investigations-launched-into-death-of-nsf-as-mourning-family-seeks-full-explanation-from-saf/ar-AAwCnGE?li=BBr8Cnr&ocid=1PRCDEFE

 

i think all the commander gonna kenna gao gao.

actually is very normal not to have 7 hours of rest before training.( provided nothing gos wrong)