NS related deaths

[Kusje]

can i as a concerned father of boys who will eventually have to serve NS send this to the minister of defence and ask him for an answer?  

 

Don't need to ask him for an ans because there will be none.

 

What you should do is teach your son not to be an idiot. If he is sick, report sick. Don't care what the commanders or peers say at all. If you refuse to continue, what can the SAF do? Beat you with a stick?

[Kusje]

Its like that lah.

Training sure got some hard some soft.

If too soft how to train man.

 

I think nobody should jump to conclusions.

An investigation is a must.

And eyewitnesses should speak up factually

 

Hopefully the truth is unveiled and the family can hv inner peace and the boy RIP.

 

You are right that eyewitnesses should speak up and nobody should jump to conclusions.

 

But look at the previous smoke grenade case - investigations done and safety breeches were uncovered but was justice done? Officers involved still managed to get promoted within 1-2 years even though they killed a man.

[RadX]

You are right that eyewitnesses should speak up and nobody should jump to conclusions.

 

But look at the previous smoke grenade case - investigations done and safety breeches were uncovered but was justice done? Officers involved still managed to get promoted within 1-2 years even though they killed a man.

 

 

yup.

 

i see that same happening here.  

[Kusje]

I think the poor boy's health is not good to begin with. Cos other soldiers are more or less ok.

 

If you say the soldiers didn't get enough rest the commanders who turn out the soldiers have to get up even earlier to get ready. Or they totally didn't get any sleep at all. They too have to be in the same turn out attire and do the fast march together.

 

It's the fear that could have prevented him to sound out that he's unwell. Ppl will give him the look especially if he had to report sick during a fast march.

 

You know what your logic sounds like?

 

In mitigation, Khairul, who had no lawyer, told Community Court Judge Eddy Tham that had the victim been in his 40s, he would have survived the accident.

 

http://www.tnp.sg/news/singapore/rider-convicted-causing-elderly-pedestrians-death

 

It doesn't matter how weak the fellow is. If the SAF had followed proper procedures, the fellow might not have died.

 

If they fellow is really so weak then don't enlist him lor. He didn't ask to be conscripted.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Kusje

[Kusje]

I'm actually not convinced of the benefits of forced drinking.

Regular consumption at interval should be better than just forced drinking.. try Force March with a distended tummy.

 

Maybe some Commander scared that you will drink from water bottle during March to "reduce" weight..

 

Forced drinking is necessary because some idiot fellow will not drink if you leave it up to the individual soldier. It's because some soldiers are idiots so all are treated as one to protect those real idiots.

 

Better to drink too much (probably just puke) than to drink too little.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Kusje

[Kusje]

seccom cannot give this kind of punishments without knowledge or authority from those higher ups like pc or oc. If they did.....hosey liao. But combat units.......anything goes. Even pcs are not spared when they 1st report to the unit.

 

Informal punishments are supposed to be governed by the informal punishment guidelines. Satcom can only grant (20 pushups within 15 mins) or something like that and PC can do slightly more (think 5 more). The commanders like to take this to mean that they can give other sorts of punishment in between but that isn't true at all. The guideline goes on to say that other sorts of punishments can be given but you will need to write to some dept in HQ to let them know within 2 weeks of the punishment (I bet that that dept has never received anything of this sort in its entire existence). So there are breaches DAILY!

 

Another lame excuse is given by commanders and PTIs claiming that PTIs can give any sort of exotic punishment as "training". This is also patently untrue. Any sort of training is governed by a training manual that has to be signed by the CO (i think) of the unit. For BMT, the syllabus is from a template that can be downloaded from the intranet - I doubt any unit dares to change it.

 

So no, not even PC or OC can give this kind of punishment. And it doesn't matter if it is a combat unit or not.

 

note: info is more than 10 years old.

[Kusje]

in all conscripted armies, that will be a problem.  there are just some people who doesn't take to military life, and some people who makes you think they are born wearing a uniform. 

 

you look at all the boboh shooters, all the blur f*cks, in a war, i think you shoot them first right after drawing arms so that the unit has a better chance to survive. 

 

if we go away with NS and all that money that goes to paying reservists are pumped back paying regular soldiers, i am sure you can get a pretty sizeable and much more lethal force. and our troops won't all start looking like kids

 

I rather shoot the officer. A stupid and garang officer is more dangerous than a blur f***.

[Kusje]

Military have military court.

Civilian got civil court.

If the accident happen in military, cannot sue.

 

If can sue here and there, got no end to it.

How to function?

No SAF, no MID already.

 

Sigh...

 

That military law also needs to ensure that justice is done.

[Kusje]

usually in active combat units each section has 2 seccom.....1 is nsf and the other is regular and the platoon SGTs are always regulars. In most training all the ncos and sncos should be there but at times only 1 seccom is needed and it should be enough to cover the section. But for force march both seccoms are usually there........

 

maybe in your unit.... where to find so many regulars such that you have 1 for each section?

[Kyrios]

Don't need to ask him for an ans because there will be none.

 

What you should do is teach your son not to be an idiot. If he is sick, report sick. Don't care what the commanders or peers say at all. If you refuse to continue, what can the SAF do? Beat you with a stick?

 

Better still... go and study some soil bacteria like someone did...consperm safe and sound in aircon room!!

[Watwheels]

Seems like some ppl here can't wait for payback time.

[Kusje]

Better still... go and study some soil bacteria like someone did...consperm safe and sound in aircon room!!

 

Your wife is the indian lady?

 

What if kanna infected by the soil bacteria? Very dangerous you know.

[RogerNg_185295]

Frankly, isnât this the same in the Corporate world as well? ie lower ranks being made scape goats when things go wrong. Higher ups get the credit despite all the hard work put in by their staff but when mistakes are made, blame gets pushed to the lower ranks. Thatâs life for u Iâm afraid.

The thing here is that a life is lost. He could have a bright future ahead. His parents may need him to support the family after he ord. 19 years of bringing him up and gone just like that Edited May 2, 2018 by RogerNg_185295

[Yewheng]

You know what your logic sounds like?

 

 

It doesn't matter how weak the fellow is. If the SAF had followed proper procedures, the fellow might not have died.

 

If they fellow is really so weak then don't enlist him lor. He didn't ask to be conscripted.

Not say don't enlist, but can transfer him out from guards ma. Or can downgrade to pes c and become a Clark in guards also. There are just many options/path for ns man to go to.

[Evillusion]

Informal punishments are supposed to be governed by the informal punishment guidelines. Satcom can only grant (20 pushups within 15 mins) or something like that and PC can do slightly more (think 5 more). The commanders like to take this to mean that they can give other sorts of punishment in between but that isn't true at all. The guideline goes on to say that other sorts of punishments can be given but you will need to write to some dept in HQ to let them know within 2 weeks of the punishment (I bet that that dept has never received anything of this sort in its entire existence). So there are breaches DAILY!

 

Another lame excuse is given by commanders and PTIs claiming that PTIs can give any sort of exotic punishment as "training". This is also patently untrue. Any sort of training is governed by a training manual that has to be signed by the CO (i think) of the unit. For BMT, the syllabus is from a template that can be downloaded from the intranet - I doubt any unit dares to change it.

 

So no, not even PC or OC can give this kind of punishment. And it doesn't matter if it is a combat unit or not.

 

note: info is more than 10 years old.

my time anything goes.....

[Kyrios]

sounds like a punishment i saw on special forces training.......crappy lar......nsf being tekan like those gungho type soldier. What is a jc student doing in a mono-intake cohort?

 

I oso JC but mono intake...

[Jman888]

The thing here is that a life is lost. He could have a bright future ahead. His parents may need him to support the family after he ord. 19 years of bringing him up and gone just like that

 

 

put it this way, there are probably more young people die in road accidents  

[Evillusion]

maybe in your unit.... where to find so many regulars such that you have 1 for each section?

thats the routine for full-time ns combat unit......one nsf and one regular per section. This regulars seccom are usually fresh from post sispec courses such as warfighter etc. Thats how they are given the experience of leading men from section to platoon to company level.....its a process of learning. Some of the ns seccom will be the nco that will stay with the men from bmt till reservist and mr together with the men.

Not say don't enlist, but can transfer him out from guards ma. Or can downgrade to pes c and become a Clark in guards also. There are just many options/path for ns man to go to.

i think that unit has already turned operational.........once conversion done there is no way out.......as a mono-intake once you are in since day one its a done deal unless there are medical grounds.