To Tune or Not To Tune?

[Cycfari]

Using such techniques to tune may not yield the desired outcomes. It is also time consuming and perhaps expensive. There's nothing like good old sensory (ear) tuning, which is more the art part. After all, music is Art. Old school thinking? Maybe. I prefer old school...hahaha

Hi Kermit, old school and in depth knowledge is still needed to use software tools. Even with perfect setup, proper EQ is most important. It's best if we can make full use of both

[Kermit]

What is proper EQ? Don't get me philosophical about this....hahaha...anyway....please explore all you can....if you're happy with the results, then you are happy...and that's important right?

[w0bg0700]

I find this thread appropriate to post my question, I assume participants here are into self-tuning.

 

My very humble set-up, done-up by one of the highly recommended shops  :

Helix P6 (stock headunit)

MP5 2way, active sub.

 

I would like to get my hands dirty with Helix DSP tuning, but the manual sure is long!

compared to 10 years ago when i played with some Eclipse hu with v. simple TA/xover settings.

 

Question1: should i attempt to self tune? what are the chances of ruining my equipment e.g. blowing a tweeter. ?

Question2:  if yes, do i need to buy the measuring microphone kit. ?

Question3 : any gatherings where someone can show me the ropes on how to run Helix tuning software?

 

because i feel sound is quite a personal thing, most installers have their own belief of what the "correct" parameters are, e.g. they do not utilize the rear speakers at all for the "rear-fill surround effect", but I would like to give such things a go.

 

Question4 : any reputable shop/individuals who can run me through the tuning process/show me how to use the software for a fee?

My installer is great - i've already done 3 cars with him, but he's always busy and I don't think he will entertain my requests.

 

 

[Will_SG]

What is proper EQ? Don't get me philosophical about this....hahaha...anyway....please explore all you can....if you're happy with the results, then you are happy...and that's important right?

Kermit

Are that Kermit from dephi forun (Corolla?)

 

OhYeah (Suzuki Swift) ;)

 

Was searching for alternative battery sources (LTO) when I came across ur familiar nick.

 

(Sorry for the OT, guys)

[Kermit]

I'm not sure man....

[Sarong1]

I find this thread appropriate to post my question, I assume participants here are into self-tuning.

 

My very humble set-up, done-up by one of the highly recommended shops  :

Helix P6 (stock headunit)

MP5 2way, active sub.

 

I would like to get my hands dirty with Helix DSP tuning, but the manual sure is long!

compared to 10 years ago when i played with some Eclipse hu with v. simple TA/xover settings.

 

Question1: should i attempt to self tune? what are the chances of ruining my equipment e.g. blowing a tweeter. ?

Question2:  if yes, do i need to buy the measuring microphone kit. ?

Question3 : any gatherings where someone can show me the ropes on how to run Helix tuning software?

 

because i feel sound is quite a personal thing, most installers have their own belief of what the "correct" parameters are, e.g. they do not utilize the rear speakers at all for the "rear-fill surround effect", but I would like to give such things a go.

 

Question4 : any reputable shop/individuals who can run me through the tuning process/show me how to use the software for a fee?

My installer is great - i've already done 3 cars with him, but he's always busy and I don't think he will entertain my requests.

 

Question1: should i attempt to self tune? what are the chances of ruining my equipment e.g. blowing a tweeter. ?

[comments: yes you should. No, the Helix software is pre-set with filters to save you from blowing yourself.]

 

Question2:  if yes, do i need to buy the measuring microphone kit. ?

[comments: Do you trust your ears or tools?]

 

Question3 : any gatherings where someone can show me the ropes on how to run Helix tuning software?

[comments: I am not sure if there is gathering of Helix users but some basic filter and time alignment knowledge plus frequent usage should get you going...]

 

[Meemee]

Tunning is one of the easiest part .....

 

1) buying of component - hardest as there is a millions of parts

 

2) installation - depend if diy or kanna carrort by shop

 

3) tunning - just need the right tools and personal preferance tunning.

[Kermit]

It has been some time since there was a post here.  To keep the interest going, I’m going to list down very briefly the challenges one may face when tuning.  These factors tend to frustrate and may throw you off course in your tuning adventure.  However, knowing how things influence and interact with each other may work well for your soul….lol….

 

I’m not going to repeat the points in my earlier article on TA, and you could take this as part 2. 

 

P.S. But please don’t flame me if you so decide to give up and dekit…lol

 

1. Speaker Placements.  Do keep in mind that the driver seat is never centre of the car.  It would therefore be almost impossible to fire your speakers symmetrically with reference to the main listener (driver).  This means you will have phase issues, no matter what. Period.
2. Speaker Characteristics.  Not all speakers are made the same, and not all speakers are perfectly matched pairs.  Each driver has its own sensitivity, frequency responses etc.  Even the damping applied to each driver during installation also differs.  Left and Right speakers sets will not sound and perform the same. Period.
3. Installation.  Are all cables the same length?  Even if they are, are all connectors manufactured and terminated exactly the same?  Something to ponder about.
4. Car Acoustics.  Windows, windscreen, dashboard.  These can reflect/refract/absorb sound waves.  Window shades? Curtains? Other obstacles in the way such as handphone holders?  Car mats? Even the presence of passengers in the car.  Of cos, the basic requirement of soundproofing in the doors are also not applied exactly the same.
5. Temperature.  Ever experienced sound differences at different times of the day.  Yes, temperature does affect propagation of sound waves, the speed of sound changes slightly.  Also if you have your aircon blower at high speed on a hot day, you hear less.  How good is your solar film?
6. Car movement.  Depending on the make of the car, you may be fighting more road noise and other external influences and you are likely to lose certain sounds too.  Since we are mostly stationary when we tune, we have to factor this in.  Not to mention, your head may move around too if you are a good driver checking for blind spots and mirrors.  Anybody shifted your seat?
7. Physiological.  Are we sure we hear things the same at different times of the day?  When we wake up vs when it’s time to sleep?  In fact, every individual hear things differently, in addition to factors such as age, gender etc.  What if we are down with a flu?  What if pressure builds up in the ears due to long time of listening at high volumes?  What if you are in a bad mood or you are tired/stressed?

 

I leave you to draw your own conclusions with the above.  Some of these can be mitigated, and others, we will have to live with.  I apologize if you are discouraged.  But press on, because, it is still worth it.  Oh, and when you think other people’s systems sound better than yours, you must remember it is their sound, not yours.  Nobody but yourself can be satisfied with your own own sound.  Have fun.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Kermit

[Jamesc]

To tune or not to use is the same as asking should you add salt and pepper to your food?

If it needs more salt and pepper then by all means add it.

If your car came with a factory head unit that was tuned by the manufacturer to make the cheap speakers already fitted sound as good as possible and you change these speakers then you need to untune the factory head unit sound to make your new after market speakers sound good.

If your food came to you perfect just the right amount of salt and just the right amount of pepper and adding more salt and pepper will make it too salty and too peppery then no don't add any more salt and pepper.

So the more important question is how to get a sound system you really like.

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Jamesc

[Jamesc]

The most expensive aspect of car hifi is keep on upgrading.

If you are not happy with your speakers or amp then you will be spending more money on buying new components and the real problem is selling your hardly used almost brand new speakers or amps.

No one will give you a good price for it. So getting things right the first time is the most important.

And the most important question is finding out the what kind of sound you like.

People always buy equipment before finding this out.

When I was younger I bought my first home. I visited show houses and finally found one and paid the deposit.

Then I went to the bank to get a loan and realised if I couldn't get a loan I would lose the deposit.

So the first thing to do when a buying a home is not to see show houses but to go to banks and get a loan approved first.

So don't bother buying your speakers and amps until you know what kind of sound you like.

 

[Jamesc]

At the most basic level people like either a warm sound or a bright sound.

People that like a warm sound cannot stand a bright sound. Its too sharp or harsh painful to listen for long.

People that like a bright sound cannot stand a warm sound. Its too muddy and they just don't enjoy listening to it.

Of course some people will like a very bright sound and other a just a bit warm and some people a really bright sound and other just a little bright.

So once you know if you like a warn or bright sound and how warm or how bright then you can start buying speakers that have the perfect amount of warmth or brightness you like.

[Jamesc]

If you are shopping for warm speakers then you can try listening to these brand Morel, DLS, PHD, Dynaudio, Scanspeak, CDT.

Shopping for bright speakers you can listen to Focal, Hertz, Rainbow.

If all these speakers still sound too bright or too warm to you then you can try Helix.

Once you found the perfect speakers you like and you want to amplify them then you need to find amps that matches the speakers perfectly.

Some speakers are very easy to drive and you can use low power amplifiers but if your speakers love a lot of power to make them sing then you need beefier amps.

If you like to listen to music loud and with a lot of bass then you need more power.

The last aspect of selecting amps is the features. 1, 2 channels or 4, 5, 6 channels and class A, AB or D.

If you like a warm sound then class A or AB bias to class A. Class A uses a lot of power and drains your battery. Class AB will have almost the sound as A but uses less power. Class D uses a lot less power but it sounds very different between manufacturers. Some Class D sounds as good as Class AB and some not so much. Just depends on how the circuit design and components they use.

 

[Jamesc]

Once you have the perfect speakers and matching amps to drive them you just have to listen to them in your car and you love the sound then you can stop.

Because there is no such thing as good sound, there is only sound you love as everyone of us is different.

I used to always go to those high end home audio shows. The most expensive speakers I heard was a $100,000 pair of Dynaudio 7 feet tall speakers with a lot of drivers.

I sat in the middle to get the perfect sound stage and the sound was all around me.

Listening I cannot deny it was a very good pair of speakers with a very high end sound.

But I didn't enjoy it. It was a foot tapping sound that you just want to move your body to it.

You know the kind of sound that just want to get up and boggie to it. The sound that gets you into the music and you forget the equipment behind the sound.

However if you listen your system and feel you need more then add a dsp.

Sitting on the driver's side on the right the right door speaker is facing your right knee and the left speaker is a few feet away on the left door. Our brain can detect the sound from the left speaker is delayed and the music is connected.

A dsp will delay the sound from the nearer speaker so that all the notes will arrive at the driver's ears at the same time.

 

[Jamesc]

The dsp will also let you change the sound signature. They will have a 5 or 13 or 31 band equalizer.

So if you like more bass you can turn up just the lower notes. If the tweeters are too sharp you can turn down just those note.

The dsp allows you to go active. 

A passive system uses component speakers with its crossovers. The amp sends the signal to the crossover. Its those little boxes that divides the signal so the mid bass only plays the low notes and the tweeters only play the high notes.

Going active means taking out the crossovers and letting your system decide how much low notes go to the mid bass and how much high notes goes to the tweeter.

The advantage of this is you can tune the sound to the one you like.

You can tune your sub woofer to play just the lowest bass notes or some mid bass as well. 

You can tune your tweeters to have more sparkle or brightness or roll off the highest notes to have a smoother treble.

You can change the sound stage to make it sound you are in a big stadium or a small jazz club.

To me the most important thing of a dsp is making the singer sound as if they are signing in the centre in front of the bonnet.

Not easy when the right woofer is firing at my right knee, the left tweeter is a few feet to the left and the sub woofer is in the boot and all the notes have to arrive at the same time.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Jamesc

[Jamesc]

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Edited November 9, 2019 by Jamesc

[Jamesc]

 

[Jamesc]

 

[Jamesc]